Accuracy issues with Colt Lightweight Commander?

[WC145]

I pretty much only carry and shoot 1911s these days, except for a DAO J frame at work. The four things that stand out here are the weight difference, barrel length, front sight, and grips.

First thing I would do is measure the heights of your front and rear sights. They may not necessarily be the same but you'd expect to see a similar ratio front to rear. If the Colt has an excessively tall front sight obviously you'll shoot low with it.

Second thing is to swap the grips and shoot each gun again and see how you group. That big fat Hogue rubber grip is going to position your hand completely different than when your shooting the S&W. Switch them around and see if the problem follows the grips.

As far as the weight and the barrel length, you can't change that, but the lighter/shorter gun will be more susceptible to any flinching you're doing in anticipation of the recoil. Certainly, the looser, lower grouping is suggestive of a flinch. As suggested, shooting the gun off sandbags or some other rest will keep it stable. Also, I'd shoot the Colt first each range session, while your fresh and less likely to flinch, and see what kind of groups you get.

Of course, having someone else shoot both guns is always a help in ruling out problems. Find someone to go with you. If both guns shoot close to the same for other people then you know where the problem lies.


If you're interested in gauging how much you are flinching, get some .45ACP snap caps or dummy rounds and load them randomly (or have someone else do it) in your mags among live rounds. When the dummy comes up you'll see exactly how much of a nose dive the gun takes when you pull the trigger.

 

[Cyrano]

The Colt Commanders don't stand up well to continued use of hardball or stronger. 'Way back in 1956 I got one and as 45 ammo was free to us servicemen then, I shot a lot of it. After about 500 rounds, accuracy was gone, and after 1000 it rattled.

I like the idea to shoot it off a rest, with the errors of aim and trigger jerk reduced. If it still shoots large groups, the problem isn't with the shooter.

 

[JB4570]

A lot of things can change the POI, such as does the colt have an arched main spring housing or flat, does it have newer beaver tail grip safety like the S&W, both of these will certainly change the way the pistol feels in your hand and of course how it prints on paper.



JB

 

[alwslate]

Colt Commanders have never been famous for their accuracy. I read a
magazine article many years ago that explained the difference in
accuracy between the Government model and Commander as being
directly related to the relative distance between the barrel bushing
and chamber. In that equal clearance at the bushing results in greater
deflection of the muzzle with the shorter barrel if that makes any
sense. I do know from my own experience in owning both models that
the reputation of poor accuracy Commanders have seems well
deserved. Way back in the early seventies I owned a well used
Remington Rand Government model that shot better than it should
have. I traded it in on a new Satin Nickel Combat Commander. Imagine
my surprise when I found that my new prize would not come close to
the accuracy of my old gun when both were shot from bench rest. I
sold it and bought the Series 70 Government model that I still have.

 

[Grayfox]

I'm in complete agreement with Fishinfool. Barrel fit is the key to accuracy in a 1911. A properly fit barrel bushing and link can do wonders.
Bear in mind that while both guns are 1911 type pistols, they are completely different in terms of weight, feel and fit. You have some serious differences in weight, balance and grip in these two guns. Not to mention that you have two completely different makers which can result in small differences due to methods of manufacture. Its unreasonable to expect equal performance.

Colt built the original 1911 to John Browning's specs which were loose as a goose for use in harsh combat environments. To some extent, Colt still follows that philosophy. While pretty much every other maker of the 1911 pistol has gone to great lengths to tighten everything up as much as possible. Refer back to my comments on barrel fit.

How the gun fits your hand is important. You've got two completely different grip profiles going there. No way they can fit your hand the same.
Not all beavertails are the same. Your guns have different types in them. Minor differences in contours can make a big difference in grip. I find that a Wilson style beavertail fits my hand perfectly, but those using the Ed Brown pattern will make me shoot low.
And then you have mainspring housings. The reason the 1911A1 switched to an arched mainspring housing was because soldiers were complaining that the gun shot low for them. The arched housing changed the grip and solved the problem

So while you do have two 1911 pattern pistols, they are completely different guns.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

I'm going to try a couple of things you guys mentioned and see if that helps.

 

[WC145]

Looking forward to seeing what kind of results you get.

 

[Arik]

If you are near Philadelphia I can help you out. I'm not an expert 1911 anything but I can try shooting it to see if I get same results and I can bring my Springfield TRP as another 1911 to compare

 

[jdlii]

I went to the range last Sunday and shot three handguns. The last one I shot was my Colt Combat Commander.

The first couple of magazines produced groups similar to your. My CCC is stock with the exception of a Wilson Combat "match" trigger and VZ operator grips. I determined that the issue was me "dropping" the muzzle and not following through like I do with my full size 1911's.

I was shooting my standard load with 230gr. FMJ bullets. Tightening my grip (two handed) and following through solved my issue. From that point on the CCC, provided that I did my job, was shooting POA and producing repeatable head shots at 7 and 15 yards.

This is not to say that the CCC produced the same size groups that my full size 1911's are capable of but, for carry purposes and "combat" accuracy, it will do the job.

A friend of my has a blued CCC and his wife shoots it "lights out"! His is a 90's series and my in an 80's series, enhanced model in stainless. His wife prefers his CCC over any other handgun that she shoots with the possible exception of a Mod. 15 K frame.

 

[BigG]

I think it is your hold and trigger pull also. Should be able to get them all together at 21 ft.

 

[wheelyfun66]

All that said, your target looks like a trigger control issue.

I agree.
Perhaps the trigger on your S&W is not only lighter...but crisper or less take-up or.....there are a lot of variables.

 

[Big Cholla]

As a former pistolsmith that specialized in building and teaching people how to shoot Colt 1911s............ I have found that there are three areas that can give immediate increased accuracy; 'Fishinfool' is absolutely right, barrel fit is of paramount importance; get some personal instruction by an instructor that can shoot the 1911 and can coach; get a 22 LR conversion slide and do a lot of range work with it.

Without having your M 1911 on my bench and being able to watch you shoot, that is about the best I can do..........

 

[DocB]

I bought that exact same gun back in the 1980's. Took it out to the farm to shoot it. Got rid of it one week later. Picked up a Series 80 1911 about ten years back. It shoots pretty good. Something about the Commander. . .couldn't even hit a barrel with it.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

Well I did some more shooting. The biggest issue is flinching but the second issue is the weight of the gun. Not used to light guns in centerfire. I think if this was a steel commander, I would do better. I prefer a little nose heavy pistol. Now something else that caught my eye and I was wondering, does this look like key holing a little? This was done at 21' 5 shots.

 

[Bob O]

Hard to tell when shooting paper without a cardboard backing.....as the paper can tear more easily.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

Hard to tell when shooting paper without a cardboard backing.....as the paper can tear more easily.

It only does it with this pistol. I was shooting my 9mm with FMJ, my 44 Mag with 44 mag and special and it did not do this.

 

[Bob O]

My .45 is the only pistol I've had that does this. Only thing I can think of is the larger and slower bullet might lend to tearing the paper easier?

Maybe next time try the target stapled to cardboard and see if it still happens.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

I will try that Bob.

 

[WC145]

Well I did some more shooting. The biggest issue is flinching but the second issue is the weight of the gun. Not used to light guns in centerfire. I think if this was a steel commander, I would do better. I prefer a little nose heavy pistol. Now something else that caught my eye and I was wondering, does this look like key holing a little? This was done at 21' 5 shots.

It does look like you've sorted it out and brought your shots up. Did you try anything else, like swapping the grips? Like I said before, the Hogues will force you to grip the Colt much differently than the S&W, could make a big difference in your shooting.

I agree with Bob O on the paper targets, without any weight to them that big slow projectile can pull and tear as it goes through.

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

It does look like you've sorted it out and brought your shots up. Did you try anything else, like swapping the grips? Like I said before, the Hogues will force you to grip the Colt much differently than the S&W, could make a big difference in your shooting.

I agree with Bob O on the paper targets, without any weight to them that big slow projectile can pull and tear as it goes through.

No I did not change the grips yet. I figure try to find the major problem first and then proceed. Since I know I'm flinching, I can now move on and try and see if changing the grips help.