Accuracy ? Ruger 77/44

[Teasel]

Hello Guys.I am new to this site. I did at one time own a couple of Smiths. A model 19 and a model 66 but I had to get rid of them both after the hand gun ban ( in Britain). At the moment we still allowed rifles as long as they are not semi autoes. Which leads me to the reason for this communication. I own a Ruger 77/44 and I am having problems with accuracy. I am only shootng cast bullets with light loads. 6 grains of Red Dot with a 240 grain bullet. This only produced 2 inch groups at 25 yards. I have tried ,today infact, using a 250 grain bullet with gas checks and 9 grains of Unique. The group was reduced to about 1 and half inchs without any flyers. I forgot to mention that I was getting the odd flyer with the previous load.This load using Unique does seem to be possibly, the way forward.I would have thought that I should be getting almost one hole goups at 25 yards. Can anyone suggest a sollution.

Regards Ian Appleyard (Teasel)

 

[Skip Sackett]

On the same quest!

Ian,
Though an ocean separate us, we seem to be on the same quest!

I recently purchased a Ruger M77/44 in hopes of producing decent rifle accuracy with cast bullets as well. The Elmer Keith bullet to be exact. I cast and cast like crazy to be honest! I would almost rather do that than anything else concerning firearms, almost.

My Marlin 1894 rifles have had fair accuracy, 2" groups at 50 yards is about the best I can do with lead plain based bullets. I wanted better and never got there. I didn't use gas checks and have heard that I could have improved accuracy had I used them. Maybe with the Ruger, I will have to go that route too, hope not.

I must say that my loads for the Marlin rifles were clocking out of the 20" barrel at 1800fps and most claim that lead bullet accuracy diminishes greatly at anything over 1600fps.

Back to the Ruger: I have been working so much that I haven't had time to get to the range as I would have liked to but I have run several loads through it. One showed great possibilities. It is with HS-6 powder. I had to call Hodgdon for it though as there was no data anywhere for the combination I had chosen. (I had some made up with the weight of powder that the technician suggested even before I called though, took an educated guess! )

The load he suggested was 14.0gr of HS-6 under that Elmer bullet. I have only shot it inside at ranges under 25yards but, from a rest, I have gotten one hole groups with it, Like a leaf of clover.

The reason I bought the Ruger is because of the faster twist of the barrel, 1:20". The Marlin and other rifles have a 1:38". The faster twist SHOULD lend itself better to heavier bullets, 280gr and up. The only problem with them is that you may have problems getting them into the magazine. My Elmer's don't fit either but, I want accuracy above all. As cast, they are running in the 260gr area too, so maybe.

Hopefully, the weather will break and I can get outside, right now there is snow, snow and rain! Even though mine is the stainless version, I have no desire to shoot for an extended period of time in inclement weather! Spoiled I guess!

We will have to keep in contact as we work through this together a world apart! Ever think about immigrating? I wouldn't live in a state that didn't allow me the right to have a handgun, let alone a country!

p.s. Welcome to the forum too!

 

[anomad]

I'm interested in the bolt action 44's. I have a Marlin 1894 set up with williams receiver site that I really enjoy. But it doesn't like to feed Keith style bullets. Skip, where's the feed problem with the bolt gun? I have never patterned the rifle carefully, just enough to know I can obtain "minute of deer" at 50 yards.

Ian are you using a scope? One odd flier sounds like something might not be locked down tight?

For lighter loads I generally get better accuracy with a lighter projectile.

 

[Jellybean]

For lighter loads I generally get better accuracy with a lighter projectile.

My first thought when I read Teasel's post was that the rate of twist might not be suitable for slow velocitiy loads. Lighter bullets might be the way to go. Also, the slower burning rate of the Unique compared to the Red Dot can make a difference in a longer barrel and give more consistent results as compared to a handgun.

anomad, Lever guns are made to feed cartridges of a certain length and extra long bullets, or extra short brass, won't always work through their actions. If this is the case with the Keith bullets you might be able to either seat the bullet deeper, or trim the brass back a little shorter to get a standard OAL lenght for the cartridge you are using to make it work. BUT MAKE SURE YOU ADJUST YOUR LOAD IF YOU GO TO A SHORTER OAL!

 

[buck460XVR]

I own a Ruger 77/44 and I am having problems with accuracy. I am only shootng cast bullets with light loads. 6 grains of Red Dot with a 240 grain bullet.

The owners manual that came with my 77/44 recommends against the use of light to moderate loads using lead bullets because of accuracy problems. Don't know if it's the bore diameter or the rifling. Using jacketed bullets and legitimate .44 magnum velocities, I have been pleased with the accuracy considering it's a handgun caliber carbine.

 

[Teasel]

Guys,thanks for the feedback.In reply to Smith Crazy , yes I have thought about emigrating to the USA . It must great to be able to walk into a gun shop and buy a hand gun. You enjoy far more freedom than we do here. It was a black day when we had to hand in our guns. I have to say though that the government did pay us quite a lot of money for our guns.
That load you mentioned , 14-0 gr of HS-6 , I will try it if I can get that powder. May be, it will shoot more accurately with a higher vellocity.With my first loading it was only doing about 850 Ft per Sec
and the second load was producing aboout 900 to 950 which did produce a tighter group.Not much but it seemed to be getting there.In the mean time I will load some more with Unique to produce a vellocity (refering to the Lyman manual as a guide) and see what happens.
The weather over here has been bad too. Could not get to the range for at least two months over Christmas because of the snow. Needed a 4 wheel drive to get down all the back roads. Even then it may have been too bad.
Anyway I'll load some faster loads tomorrow and try em out on Wedensday. I''ll let you know what happens.
Nomad-, Yes I do use a scope and yes the back scope ring had come loose. So at that moment it did cause some of the flyers. I actually removed the scope and shot with open iron sights. To no avail.Still got flyers. Anyway this Saturday I put the scope back on .Made sure it was secure and did not get any flyers.
And Jellybean-, I think you may be right , a higher velocity could be the answer.
Anyway Guys, got to go.Let you know what happens.
Ian (Teasel)

 

[Teasel]

Just read buck460XVR letter, about what the Ruger manual said about low velocity ammo. Just got the manual out and yes he is right. It says don't use low velocity ammo.Its not accurate. The moral of the story is- read the instruction book properly. Which obviously I did'nt.
Let you know what happens.
Ian(Teasel)

 

[chingachkook]

Years ago I used to own a Ruger 77/22 Hornet and with the best handloads I could muster 5 shot groups at 100 yds. hovered right around 1" with occasional unexplained flyers.

Because of previous experience with the 22 Hornet round I knew the little cartridge was capable of better accuracy. I tried every trick I could think of to tighten my groups up, but nothing seemed to help and in frustration I started searching the Internet for some kind of clues. Eventually I stumbled onto a web site that said that the accuracy problems with the 77/22 action lies in the sloppy fit of the two halves of the two piece bolt. I don't remember the exact cure because it was so long ago, but it seems that the site suggested a shim between the two halves and an oversize roll pin to replace the original one that holds the halves together. I carefully did the work as required and removed the slop from the bolt halves. On my next trip to the range to test the repair out the rifle shot five shot groups of 5/8" with no flyers at 100 yds. from a bench rest.

I don't remember the exact load I used, but it was with Lil' Gun powder and one of those then new on the market plastic tipped bullets around 40-45 grs.

I don't own the rifle anymore cause about ten years ago some young feller made me an offer I couldn't refuse.

I don't know if the 77/44 has a two piece bolt or not, but if it does a search of the Internet may give you the information for the repair as I describe and may help you tighten your groups up.

 

[chingachkook]

I've been searching for a few hours to find the site I spoke of in my previous post, but no joy so far. However, I did find this;

Ruger Bolt

 

[336A]

Hello Smith Crazy, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the ability of your Marlin to shoot heavy bullets accurately. I'm not sure if you tried any of the heavier bullets or not out of your rifle. There are some good resources out there like this article by Glen Fryxell (hope I spelled his name right) that show the contrary to be true. However I do realize that no two rifles will like the same kind of ammo either, plus it is always nice to have a good excuse to buy a new rifle LOL.
Marlin 1894 Lever Action Carbine, It's uses, calibers, history

44 Magnum heavy weight hunting bullets - Is the 44 becoming overweight?

As soon as time permits I would very much like to play with some 250gr WFN bullets from Beartooth Bullets from my Marlin .44 1894SS.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Mould coming very, very soon! Cannot wait! WHOOOHOOOOO!

 

[Teasel]

Thanks for the pics Chingachkook, Ref. bolt. I'll keep it in mind.
Ian (Teasel)

 

[Teasel]

Chingachkook, thanks for the photoes.Ref bolt. I'll keep them in mind.
Ian (teasel)

 

[chingachkook]

Chingachkook, thanks for the photoes.Ref bolt. I'll keep them in mind.
Ian (teasel)

Teasel,

Afternoon Sir!

Just remember if you should make the repair yourself to grease the shim really well with a good quality firearms grease that way you'll prevent any galling of the shim.

 

[Teasel]

To Chingachkook, thanks. I will.
Regards Teasel

 

[chingachkook]

Hey Teasel,

Good morning!

I found a little more information on the bolt repair and hope it helps you out some.

Ruger 22 H

Make the 77/22 Shoot

I still haven't been able to locate the site I found years ago that described the repair in much more detail, complete with line drawings and all.

 

[Teasel]

To Smith crazy, got to the range on wedensday. Intermittant rain, high gusting wind and dambed cold. Not the best conditions for testing loads. Anyway I did get some good results. I used 11 grains of Unique behind a 250 grain bullet (gas check) Estimated velocity was arround 1000 ft per sec. and the group has shrunk to about 3/4 of an inch. Not quite a clover leaf as you are getting but I think its on its way. I will try maximum of 12 grains next of Unique, mainly because thats all I have. It should in theory shoot tighter.I will try and get hold of some of that HS-6 . I am not sure whether its available over here but I will find out. Once I have the general accuracy nailed down I want to try bullets without gas checks as they are so expensive.The price of copper has just gone up and up. By the way, what make of bullet moulds are you using?
Ian(Teasel)

 

[Teasel]

Hi Chingachkook, got your info. diagrams etc , thankyou.
Teasel.

 

[chingachkook]

You are welcome Sir.

 

[Teasel]

Target

Hi Smithcrazy, here is a pic of a five shot group produced by 11 Grains of Unique.
Ian (Teasel)