AD at range
- Thread starter keithylton
- Start date
Johnmuratore
Member
federali
Got it.
Thanks Bud
I do reach over the top to rack the slide but its just the way I was taught and now habit. Whatever works, right?
Got it.
Thanks Bud
I do reach over the top to rack the slide but its just the way I was taught and now habit. Whatever works, right?
Mcwsky09
Member
You are thinking of an entire thumb jammed against the back of the slide to force it home and staying there during the firing sequence and recoil/slide travel, which is what I thought as I read it as well. But it is possible that it was a swiping motion and all or most of the thumb was out of the path of the slide when it fired.
Reading the updates form the op it does sound like more of a finger on the trigger incident, which means it could have been a significant amount of time (compared to the total time of a single firing sequence) between thumb and slide and slide travel. And it fact if the trigger job made it the trigger significantly lighter and or shorter then it would seem that the incident might have been more along the lines of - I rode the slide and it failed to return fully to battery so I pushed it forward as I have done it the past, a second later as I raised the gun toward the target and placed my finger in the trigger to begin staging the trigger it discharged despite not feeling the expected resistance I expected on the trigger. Take the unexpected discharge combined with no awareness of having applied any pressure to the trigger could easily result in thinking that the gun discharged simultaneously wth the slide closing.
In my mind a discharge that occurs when the gun is operated normally and the trigger is not pressed is a malfunction not an accidental or negligent discharge.
An accidental discharge would be a case where I am near to being on target or in fact on target and the trigger is lighter/shorter/smoother than expected and the shot is fired prior to the moment of intended discharge.
A negligent discharge is anytime the trigger is pulled either intentionally or even unintentionally such that the operator mistakenly believed the chamber was empty but it was not, regardless of whether the conditions were safe. Meaning that you could have a negligent discharge such as during disassembly for cleaning on a firearm which requires a trigger pull to disassemble where no one is hurt or you could have a negligent discharge where someone including the operator is injured.
A case such as where the drawstring got into the trigger guard is a tricky one. Certainly it was unintentional and could and even should have been avoided but he did not pull the trigger intentionally so that would be like negligence resulting in an accidental discharge.
texmex
Member
Another example of why autos are a passing fad.
Mcwsky09
Member
The reason I never mentioned AD/ND and malfunction is because it always ends up confusing people.
I suggest a new term Unintended Discharge this I believe would cover most bases
That would be a better generic catch-all term which would then open the conversation as to the exact circumstances and whether or not it was negligent and whether or not there were any damage or injury as a result.
A little change in technique......
A little change in technique is a lot better than a defective gun that likes to go off when chambered. If the firing pin was actually protruding I'd be afraid that it would slam-fire just as easily.
Good work.
A little change in technique is a lot better than a defective gun that likes to go off when chambered. If the firing pin was actually protruding I'd be afraid that it would slam-fire just as easily.
Good work.
ginzo
Member
No offense to anyone, but in my mind any "unintended" discharge is negligent. I'm not saying it will never happen to me, but if you stay focused, and you must, then it "shouldn't" happen.
There is just NO way to pull that bullet back, and the consequences can be dire.
I'm ready for the fallout from this statement.
Give me an example and I will reconsider my view.
There is just NO way to pull that bullet back, and the consequences can be dire.
I'm ready for the fallout from this statement.
Give me an example and I will reconsider my view.
Mcwsky09
Member
No offense to anyone, but in my mind any "unintended" discharge is negligent. I'm not saying it will never happen to me, but if you stay focused, and you must, then it "shouldn't" happen.
There is just NO way to pull that bullet back, and the consequences can be dire.
I'm ready for the fallout from this statement.
Give me an example and I will reconsider my view.
That sounds like maybe a case for negligent handling during an unintentional discharge.
In other words - every firearm should always be handled in a safe manner - and no reason to do something like aim it in an unsafe direction when allowing the slide to close.
But I think it is a stretch to call it a negligent discharge IF - and that is a BIG IF - the discharge is the result of a defect. In other words - if the weapon malfunctions it may not have been possible for any one to foresee or prevent it - but if observing all the safety rules then the result is no harm done.
It may be a fine line - and while I generally agree that "accidental" is nearly always used in cases which are more rightly operator error - or a bald faced lie to cover negligence - there can and should be allowance for the rare cases where everything was done right and something still went wrong. Proving that everything was done right and something went wrong - without high speed video of the actual incident - might be nearly impossible.
Even Jerry Miculek has had at least one unintended discharge on film at a range where the gun was somewhere around low ready and no one was hurt and no damage other than a hole in the ground.
If you shoot enough it will happen to you. It could be accidental or negligent and there's a thin line between the two. Let's say you want to manipulate the trigger to drop the hammer on a loaded hammer fired gun and it goes bang or if you use a decocker on a live round and it goes bang. You would be accused of negligence if the gun wasn't pointed in a safe direction and caused harm but it would just be an accident if you had followed correct safety procedures. Dropping a gun is another example, is that an accident or negligence if it fires? As regards staying focused well most people have a very limited attention span
