Advice for new and would-be .500 S&W Magnum shooters...

[ohiococonut]

I think that mindset has a lot to do with it too. Just telling yourself, or having someone tell you "wow this gun is really really really gonna kick!!" is enough to make it really really kick.

Not always but I'm sure it does happen. When I first got mine when they came out I was excited to say the least. I had read articles and seen the pictures of the gun in an upright position after firing and I was ready to get knocked on my butt. Reloading components were few and far between so I bought a couple boxes of Hornady 1st run bullets (I still have a full one) and a box of Corbon 440grainers. I took my new found friend and my video camera to the range as soon as they opened up. Lucky for me there was no one there so I set things up and loaded her up. I decided since this was The Most Powerful Revolver in the World I'd shoot it one handed and record it for posterity. With the camera rolling I fired one Corbon round then another. Frankly I was disappointed and shut the video camera off. The gun didn't recoil like I imagined and didn't knock the snot out of me. I thought it recoiled just a little harder than a snub nose 44mag. When I look back at the video you can see the look of "eh" on my face as I shut it off.

Looking back now if I remember correctly my old T/C Contender got my attention more. It had one of JD Jones original 45-70 barrels without a comp and wooden grips. Loaded to the max it hurt the webbing and palm of my hand and I nearly dropped it the first shot. I know there's no comparison between the two platforms but it gave me more than I expected.

This isn't to say the 500 doesn't recoil or have power, but I don't think we've reached the limits just yet.

 

[MTKTM]

Not always but I'm sure it does happen. When I first got mine when they came out I was excited to say the least. I had read articles and seen the pictures of the gun in an upright position after firing and I was ready to get knocked on my butt. Reloading components were few and far between so I bought a couple boxes of Hornady 1st run bullets (I still have a full one) and a box of Corbon 440grainers. I took my new found friend and my video camera to the range as soon as they opened up. Lucky for me there was no one there so I set things up and loaded her up. I decided since this was The Most Powerful Revolver in the World I'd shoot it one handed and record it for posterity. With the camera rolling I fired one Corbon round then another. Frankly I was disappointed and shut the video camera off. The gun didn't recoil like I imagined and didn't knock the snot out of me. I thought it recoiled just a little harder than a snub nose 44mag. When I look back at the video you can see the look of "eh" on my face as I shut it off.

Looking back now if I remember correctly my old T/C Contender got my attention more. It had one of JD Jones original 45-70 barrels without a comp and wooden grips. Loaded to the max it hurt the webbing and palm of my hand and I nearly dropped it the first shot. I know there's no comparison between the two platforms but it gave me more than I expected.

This isn't to say the 500 doesn't recoil or have power, but I don't think we've reached the limits just yet.

Your early experience very closely mirrors my own, right down to the choice of ammo. I'd gotten one of the early production 8 3/8" guns and had a couple boxes of 350 grain Hornadys, and a couple of 440 grain CorBons which were reputed to be the ultimate in brutal, pain-inducing recoil. I did not have a video camera. I fired the CorBons first, and was expecting it to be worse than it was. The gun didn't rise particularly high on recoil, but did produce a distinct 'stinger' sensation in the palm of my strong hand. Well, perhaps the limit has not been reached, but mine pretty well has, I have no desire to shoot a handgun that is more powerful than the 500.

I remember back when I was a college kid about 1969 or '70 a friend got a T/C Contender with a 44 Mag. barrel. We went out one day to shoot it. That was the singularly most miserable handgun I've ever shot. I'd rather shoot my 340PD with full loads. The old grip design just hammered the web of the hand, and I suspect the low bore-axis didn't help matters. I've never had an interest in the T/C handguns, despite their utility and popularity, ever since.

 

[6pack]

Goofing around with our 500's

My buddy and I are goofing around with our new 500's this past January.

He had a number of handloads for us to play with.

Gotta love a day off and ammo to burn.

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[AaronE]

Mr. Ross....AFTER I scrape up the coin to pick up one of your 5" 500s...I'll join the chorus in convincing S&W to make a 5-shot .475 Linebaugh X-frame to go with my Ruger #2 (a #3 action with #1 wood) and my Freedom Arms M757 in the same.

 

[BigE]

Great thread here. I'm expecting the 500 to have a good amount recoil, but I'm prepared and have been coached up by someone who owns one. I'm pretty excited to go fire it for the first time, but I have to wait until the weather warms up. Thanks for the info!

 

[mtb1bkr]

John, the last video has been removed from the link you have. I've seen the video, jerks like that should be castrated.

I've allowed several folks to shoot my 500, from small to large, and have never had anyone disappoined. However, I carry a variety of handloads to the range with me when I take the gun, so I let them shoot the lighter variety, such as a case of trailboss over ~400 grain bullet. I haven't had many want to fire a bunch of rounds!

 

[DonD]

Well, perhaps the limit has not been reached, but mine pretty well has, I have no desire to shoot a handgun that is more powerful than the 500.

That's pretty much my opinion. If a bigger, more powerful gun came out, I'd like to try it once but I doubt that I'd buy one. I'd probably rarely shoot it.

While most of my shooting with my two 500s isn't max power, I shoot enough fairly potent ammo per range session to use the gun in somewhat of the mode it was intended for.

When I hear people say flatly that the 500 doesn't kick, my BS meter goes on full alarm because I strongly suspect they're using watered down 275 gr loads which have no resemblance to heavy 440 gr loads.

Del, this last paragraph was NOT aimed at your post. Don

 

[DonD]

When you pull the trigger and it snaps both your wrists you have reached the upper limit.

Trust me, I'll be happy to let you demonstrate the validity of that opinion. Don

 

[Magnum-Krazy]

This isn't to say the 500 doesn't recoil or have power, but I don't think we've reached the limits just yet.

Get yourself a box or two of 700 gr. Hardcast from Ballistic Supply and give another report.
You will LOVE that load --------

That's pretty much my opinion. If a bigger, more powerful gun came out, I'd like to try it once but I doubt that I'd buy one. I'd probably rarely shoot it.

If something came out stronger than the .500, you'd need a padded shooting glove for you're padded shooting glove !





Ernie

 

[Rodentman]

Just got an early model 8.375" 500 lightly used. Has the old style compensator. Came with a few empty rounds which used LP primers not LR, so it's early, IMHO.

Loaded up some 350g XTP's with 18g Unique as per Lyman 49, and a few with 11.0g Titegroup as per MD Smith. Ordered some 335g lead which will go over Trail Boss. I have H110 and Lil Gun. We'll get there.

I routinely shoot 34g H110 with 300g JSP .50AE, and 24g H110 with 240g JSP in .44 mag.

 

[omie01]

500 not for the faint of heart

I too own one of these monsters, and love it very much. But I have learned not to offer to let everyone shoot it! I have seen the double fire a few times, with one of the people being my own 250lb. gun loving father! Now I make sure that all shooters have enough experience, and since I reload, I slowly work them up the scale of power.
Since I do reload, I like to make many different loads for this gun, But in my experience, you cant always trust load data! I too have made those rounds that (DONT IGNITE)! That is a very spooky feeling with this beast! And that was load data from a VERY respectable source! They have since corrected their recipe, but I have to wonder how many people found out the hard way?
I am still a little spooked every time I make a new batch of ammo, as I have had the most problems finding load data for the .500, and fear very much ever harming myself or the gun, its just so powerful, I could only imagine the damage. I have also heard about problems with bullet slip during recoil with the .500 bullets but have never experienced it. I bought the hornady dies that have the extra taper crimp die, and even as a novice reloader, I used the extra die and have never had a bullet slip yet, but now I keep an eye on all these things! Yeah its alot to worry about, But very rewarding when it all works right.
With all that said, just make sure if you own one of these, just use your judgement on who fires it, and make sure they know what their in for, that way we get to KEEP these fine hand canons!

 

[DonD]

Caution is a good practice when reloading anything but I do agree that extra care is a good idea with the .500.

On the other hand, the X frame is very stout and I doubt that anything other than a full case of Bullseye would take the gun apart.

The biggest concern would probably be detonation of low density loads with powders like W296/H110. If you use nearly casefulls of suitable powders that won't likely be an issue. Bottom end, use Trail Boss, I've had great results with it for dinky plinking loads.

You don't need to exceed published max load data to have extremely powerful rounds. Don

 

[MTKTM]

Get yourself a box or two of 700 gr. Hardcast from Ballistic Supply and give another report.
You will LOVE that load --------

After fiddling around with handloading different bullets for my 500s for a couple of years after getting the first one ('02 or '03.....I think it was '03), I "settled" on a factory duplication load of the CorBon 440. I use a gas-check SWC 440 grainer loaded ahead of 40 grains of H110/W296 (same powder, different can). It's a pretty hot load and I've chronographed it and it's right in there with the CorBons, within 20fps out of either an 8" or a 4" barrel.

I'd like to try a 700 just for kicks (literally!), but have been under the impression that the standard S&W twist barrels would not stabilize such a long, relatively slow bullet, and that was a big part of the reason that John Ross created his version of the 500 which has a faster twist barrel and tighter barrel/cylinder gap tolerances. Have you shot the 700s in a standard S&W gun? If so, how do they shoot?

 

[John Ross]

I'd like to try a 700 just for kicks (literally!), but have been under the impression that the standard S&W twist barrels would not stabilize such a long, relatively slow bullet, and that was a big part of the reason that John Ross created his version of the 500 which has a faster twist barrel and tighter barrel/cylinder gap tolerances. Have you shot the 700s in a standard S&W gun? If so, how do they shoot?

700-725 grain bullets that are close to 1.400" long shoot okay in standard twist 8 3/8" guns IF the load is near max, i.e. 1100+ FPS and IF you are not hoping to hit things at much over 100 yards. These long bullets go unstable at longer ranges even with max loads because of the marginal twist. In the factory 3 1/8" guns (4" with compensator) you can't get enough MV with safe pressure to get a stable load past rock-throwing distances.

I haven't tried the 6 1/2" factory gun but I predict it will be okay to 75-100 yds. with top loads using these bullets.

Ranger Rick of Homer, Alaska uses 700 grain bullets of my design for all of his hunting and loves them. He has a scoped 10 1/2" gun and he shoots near-max loads, so he is getting good stabilization and accuracy, and has killed a bunch of game at over 100 yards with his setup.

The 5" .500 I designed and the Performance Center built has a 1:10" twist instead of the 1:18 3/4" twist that the standard production .500s have. It will stabilize these long slugs at all sane ranges, even when loaded to MV of 800FPS or so.

ALL of these full wadcutter type long heavy bullets will go unstable SOMEWHERE, even out of my 5" guns, but after 300 yards or more, who cares? If you really like long range plinking (as I do), use a more suitable bullet, like my Long Range 400 or 450 grain designs.

 

[MrWindUp]

[MODS: This post contains several video links. They are all relevant to the topic of shooting the S&W .500, but if somehow this post violates the forum's guidelines, just delete it without sending me a nastygram...]

I keep getting emails from people interested in the .500, asking me what to expect from this gun.

I never want to talk down to anyone, but it concerns me that some of you may not realize what you are in for, if you have little to no experience with heavy recoiling magnum revolvers. By "heavy recoiling," I mean something with MORE recoil than a factory .44 magnum round out of a 48 ounce gun. If you've been shooting a 329 with magnum rounds, you can stop reading...

Below is a vid of one of my customers shooting my .500 alongside a 5" full-lug .460. In the .500, he is shooting a 300 grain Hornady factory load going about 2000 FPS. He is an experienced magnum shooter and knows what he's doing. For him, recoil with this load is quite manageable, even one-handed...

YouTube - S&W 500 & 460 Dual-wielding!!!

Below is a guy shooting a factory 3 1/8" barrel (4'' with compensator) .500 with a 700 grain round at 1050 FPS from Ballistic Supply. He has no experience with handguns more powerful than .44 mag, and the heavy recoil startles him. The barrel goes slightly past vertical. BTW the 700 grain bullet likely went unstable in 30-60 feet out of that gun.

1994pears1993 - YouTube

Here's a vid in slo-mo of a kid (meaning half my age) shooting one of my guns with a 500 Hornady factory load. He needs a better stance and technique, but it was his first try at the .500, and he didn't drop the gun or let it hit him in the head...

Smith & Wesson 500 Revolver -500 grain bullet - YouTube

Next, here's a girl "doubling" a factory 8 3/8" .500. I have personally witnessed this twice with two of my students. The gun recoils enough to compress not only the rubber grip but the palm fat in your hand and push the gun and trigger away from your trigger finger, letting the trigger reset. Your brain is still telling your finger to put pressure on the trigger, and you fire the gun again, usually straight up. Use a firmer grip. Although the gun doubles on her, she maintains her stance and the gun comes nowhere near hitting her. A firmer grip and she'll shoot the gun like a champ.

YouTube - FULL AUTO 500 S&W

When reports of these "doublings" first came out around June of 2003, S&W shot some extreme high speed footage of what happens when the .500 fires. Here's S&W engineer (and chief .500 designer) Brett Curry firing the 500 one-handed. The vid starts just as the primer has ignited the powder. Watch as the gun recoils ALMOST enough to reset the trigger. The gun initially moves straight back, compressing both rubber grip and palm fat. The clip ends before the muzzle even starts to rise. We are looking at about five milliseconds span of time in this clip. Note that he bullet passes the B/C gap at :02 and exits the muzzle at :06.

Here's the shortened and slowed-down section of the S&W vid:

S&W 500 magnum slow motion (cylinder gap) - YouTube

And here's the entire original S&W vid that gives an even better view of the trigger almost resetting:

dwebb210 - YouTube

And last of all, here's what happens when someone with no experience with heavy recoil gets turned loose with a .500 by some idiot boyfriend. Note that this girl is about the same size as the young woman in video #4, but her technique is all wrong.

When newbies get excited at seeing the .500 and want to shoot it, here's what I do: A cylinder out of a K22, then a K38 shooting wadcutters, then regular .38s, then a Model 27 with magnums. If they're still in, then a 6 1/2" M29 with 10 Unique/250 Keith. Still game? 25 296/250 Keith. More? 5" .500 with a 550 over a case full of Trail Boss. Still with me? 550 over a case full of 4759 for 1325 FPS. Most women and some men have had enough by then, but a few have gone farther, including one woman who made it all the way to the end, 725s @ 1250. My rule is you can quit at any time, but you can't go up until you finish the cylinder you're on. That's how I do it.

Anyway, here's the vid:

YouTube - Girl pistol whips herself in the face with 500.magnum (fail)

Use a crush grip, extend your arms and lean forward with one foot farther to the rear, and work up to the heaviest loads gradually. Don't EVER shoot this gun with a loose grip and your arms relaxed.

Be careful out there...

Fantastic response, it's exactly how I "allow" almost any shooter to shoot the 500. People see my wife shoot 50 rounds though it and think its child's play. What they don't know is she has shooting guns from age 5 and knows what a good form is. True having a good grip and muscle mass help but knowledge and the understanding of hand howitzers is key to mastering this animal. I only weigh 165lbs and my wife weighs less. She prefers my hand loaded 375 gr. bullets while I like those too along with my custom 680 gr. thumpers. I just love the big guys watching my wife shoot that thing like a pro and then see them get pushed around with a case full of Trail Boss. Anyways, great post and very, very informative on this fantastic revolver. Happy shooting guys and be good humans!

 

[nachogrande]

BIG GUNS

TO EACH HIS OWN, and I'm sure a few people can put them to good use. in all honesty however if a 357mag is not enough gun, it's time to grab a rifle.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I tip my hat to you monster bore shooters. I decided awhile back that it wasn't for me, I don't need that much recoil in my life, and I'm more than fairly recoil tolerant most of the time. "Recoil is your friend" as someone once told me. I gave up monster bore rifles, too. Just don't need it. But, having some experience, and a tidbit of knowledge, I have two comments.

First, the dual wielder with the .460 and .500 is a solid mass young man and with his arms locked I'd expect him to be able to absorb that much recoil. However, his footwork/body position/stance, by any name, is all wrong. At least IMO and as far as I can tell. His feet are parallel when they should be one more forward than the other and his back is bent. You can't pick your stance really well in a gunfight or when a bear come at you but to demonstrate shooting anything you should use proper form. had he done so his body would not have rocked backwards as much as it did. Just my opinion.

Also, and very interestingly, by using his arms locked out he was able to keep those guns way out there during recoil. But as we saw in another video, using a two handed Weaver or isosceles stance with any kind of elbow bending does cause you to risk the recoil forcing a deeper bend and the gun coming back at your face. I only mention this because when I tip my hat to you folks who shoot monster bores I am constrained to tell you a story, a Ruger story as I recollect but it doesn't matter much.

Early in the time when the monster bore cartridges were moving into the mainstream and not just being made by Linebaugh and Frontier, sometime around ten years ago or so, some shooters took a Ruger .454 to a range outside San Antonio and had a whale of a good time with it. One of their sons present, a 12 year old, asked to shoot it and his dad allowed him. He was given instruction, etc. The recoil from the first round caused the gun to fly all the way back, the hammer hit the boy directly in the head, and he died. (You can still find the story on line if you want to check me out.)

Moral of the story - these monster calibers are not for the inexperienced nor for anyone with less than adequate arm strength. I'm not saying don't play with them - I have the experience and the strength but I simply won't do it any more - I'm just asking in the name of gun safety to ensure that anyone you allow to play with you is really ABLE to do so safely. Keeping the gun pointed safely downrange is one thing. Being able to keep it there AFTER the round leaves the muzzle is another.

***GRJ***

 

[nachogrande]

MONSTER CALIBERS

don't know what some people are trying to prove by giving women, kids and non exp'd shooters heavy recoiling guns. but please only put 1 round in the gun, for the shooters and general publics safety. best you can hope to do is give the newbie a lifetime case of the flinches, or turn them off to the shooting sports entirely.

 

[S.B.]

John, I still own the one I bought from you years back and can't wait for your .460 to match it. Any thoughts on when these will be out?
Steve

 

[ruggyh]

John I would opt in for a pair of the 460 if you get that project underway