Air Force issue model 15’s question

[MajorD]

I know there is an extensive thread on USAF 15’s here somewhere, but here is my specific question.
I have a friend who was an aviator in Vietnam. He told me when he was shipping to Vietnam, he was issued a model 15 here in the states to take with him. Long story short, he states then when he rotated back to the states he kept it in his possession and still has it. I am hoping to get eyes on it soon.
I asked him if it was USAF property marked but he didn’t think it was ( it is in his safe and hasn’t seen the light of day in years most likely)
Were any of the USAF model 15’s not property marked?

His story ( which I absolutely don’t doubt for a minute) was when he got to Vietnam he was attached to an Army unit and at the time that unit was using 45’s, so they issued him a 45 that he used for his tour. He told me when the 38 was issued, it was brand new, and since he swapped it with a 45, other than initial familiarization firing before shipping out wasn’t used after that. He states he hasn’t fired it since either. If I do get a peek, and get his permission to take some pictures I will try to share them here

 

[Bald1]

Lots of AF and model 15 threads today. That’s good because I think I’m going to sell my 15-2.

 

[austintexas]

USAF M-15

I have a Air force M-15 that is marked U.S. It was issued to a USAF general that took it to 'Nam in '66. I've got a letter of provenance and other paperwork. I have seen them marked USAF. I tried to buy one at the San Antonio show, Very high price. I decided to walk the show before I committed and when I returned he had decided to keep it in his collection and took it off the table. I sure there are some unmarked ones out there. I've seen 10-5s with only a small p proof by the trigger guard.
SWCA 892

 

[Rocketmedic40]

My grandpa told me he was issued a Smith & Wesson .38 with a 4” barrel when he got to Vietnam, on the thinking that if their Huey crashed they might be down to 1 hand. He didn’t know what happened to it after he got shot; he ended up “naked in a hospital in Hawaii” sometime in 1969.

 

[Greyman50]

Saw several over there and all were USAF marked. As Army Ord. unit we saw a lot, some I’d like to forget.

 

[chief38]

As strange as this sounds my Uncle was in the Korean War and told me he actually brought his own personal M&P (pre M10) heavy barrel with him. He was a grunt and was never going to officialy be issued one so he brought his own. Don't know if that was exactly protocol but that was what he told me. When he left Korea, he told me he sold it to another soldier.

 

[JP@AK]

he actually brought his own personal M&P (pre M10) heavy barrel with him.

He must be mistaken on one matter. There were no M&P revolvers with a heavy barrel before model marks first appeared. The first one with a heavy barrel was the Model 10-1 in 1959.

 

[MajorD]

My grandpa told me he was issued a Smith & Wesson .38 with a 4” barrel when he got to Vietnam, on the thinking that if their Huey crashed they might be down to 1 hand. He didn’t know what happened to it after he got shot; he ended up “naked in a hospital in Hawaii” sometime in 1969.

If he was Army it was either one of the many thousands of model 10’s ( mostly round butts) procured by the Army mostly for use of aviators as you indicated or an old WWII victory model, some of which were in use by aviation units until adoption and issuance of the M9 Beretta.
Just to expand a bit, at the time, army doctrine was to carry the 1911 hammer down on an empty chamber and to rack the gun on the draw when needed. Not realistic to do when busy controlling a helicopter! I know some MP’s from the old days who had tricks on how to catch the edge of the holster with the slide or rear sight to rack the gun one handed

I will have to bug my friend to show me his 15 soon!

 

[Leroy Thompson]

Here's a pretty standard one

 

[bgrafsr]

I have a 15-1 marked U.S.. Shipped to Robins Air Force Base, GA. I put the target grips on it because I like their look. I do have the original Magnas for the gun.

 

[kwill1911]

Some early shipments were marked "U.S." like the one above. Most were marked "U.S.A.F." I'm not aware that there were any unmarked.

 

[Retired W4]

None of us were issued weapons in the states on the way to the RVN, as we rode in civilian contract 707's or such. Most of us didn't know what Bde./Div. we would be assigned to until we got in country. Our revolvers (mostly M-10s) were issued at the Company level when we got to that unit. I seem to remember something in the Army regs about not carrying 1911s on board for some reason but that was a long time ago. Looking back, the issue 130 grain ammo we were given was pretty weak so a lot of us also carried off the books M-16s for a survival weapon. I carried an under folder AK for a while until someone told me if I found myself on the ground the sound of the AK might draw some friendly fire. I ditched the AK. I did carry some 38 tracer in case I ran out of pen gun flairs.

Ft Rucker used to have a huge stash of M-10s like Robins (AFLC) had all those M-15s.

 

[Rocketmedic40]

If he was Army it was either one of the many thousands of model 10’s ( mostly round butts) procured by the Army mostly for use of aviators as you indicated or an old WWII victory model, some of which were in use by aviation units until adoption and issuance of the M9 Beretta.
Just to expand a bit, at the time, army doctrine was to carry the 1911 hammer down on an empty chamber and to rack the gun on the draw when needed. Not realistic to do when busy controlling a helicopter! I know some MP’s from the old days who had tricks on how to catch the edge of the holster with the slide or rear sight to rack the gun one handed

I will have to bug my friend to show me his 15 soon!

He was, 71st Helicopter Attack Company 1968-1969. Art Hathaway

 

[Retired W4]

He was, 71st Helicopter Attack Company 1968-1969. Art Hathaway

Not to disparage your statement but I don't believe there was a 71st Attack Helicopter Company. There was the 71st Assault Helicopter Company with their gun platoon, call sign Rattlers. The VHPA directory does not list Art Hathaway. It does list John W., Richard C. and William M. Hathaway.

 

[Retired W4]

Not to get too far off subject, but if your grandpa was indeed a helicopter pilot in Vietnam you should contact the VHPA (Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association) to add his name for the record.

 

[Rocketmedic40]

Not to disparage your statement but I don't believe there was a 71st Attack Helicopter Company. There was the 71st Assault Helicopter Company with their gun platoon, call sign Rattlers. The VHPA directory does not list Art Hathaway. It does list John W., Richard C. and William M. Hathaway.

He was a door gunner with them. I think on their F company? He told me about how they had a dugout under their hootch for smoking weed and banging hookers, how they routinely burned thousands of rounds in a single flight, and apparently he went AWOL for like six weeks between tours but got arrested by his high school bully-turned-cop for PI in Petaluma, CA and flown right back to South Vietnam in 1969.

He died during COVID. I miss him. He took me on my first-ever hunting trip, and we skipped the usual “learn on a pellet gun or a .22” and went straight to a Marlin 336, which I dropped, because I was seven and that’s kind of a big rifle for a kid to juggle. We went camping, panning for gold, riding around NorCal in his truck, etc. he was even in a motorcycle gang called the Rip City Riders. truth be told, he didn’t mention much at all about his time in Vietnam, or even that he had served, for most of my life. For all of my life, he worked as a postman, on a walking route in Santa Rosa. He retired when I was in high school. I remember I asked him once why he took a job with so much walking on his leg, and he said that he liked it because he spent so much time in bed he hated laying down. He also said he hated wearing uniform, but he was OK with the shorts because they were comfortable.

When I joined the Army, he was surprised. I remember when I told him he sat for a long minute, real quiet, then very slowly and very clearly asked me if I needed help to get to Canada. I told him I had wanted to join and it was a voluntary thing. He was quiet for another minute, and then real slow and real disappointed, he looked at me and said “i thought you were smarter than that.” a couple of years later, I was Skyping with him and Grandma when the incoming alert went off. Grandpa hollered to get to the wire because Charlie was coming. I blew him off and told him Hadj didn’t do that in Iraq. He looked at me and he said “Charlie would’ve fudgeed you boys up.”

I really, really miss that guy.

 

[Rocketmedic40]

We also found out that my grandma was a photo bug. Not unusual, but most grandmas don’t arrange their photos by perfect chronological order and no other categories. Boomers out there, please do your grandkids a favor. Please have your photos separated from everyone’s photos, Because you find out way more than you ever Wanted to know when you’re looking at baby pictures and other pictures creep in.

 

[Retired W4]

RocketMedic40,
The guys in back behind the M-60s were all amazing people. Your Grandpa sounds like a wild one, and that's what it takes sometimes to do a job like that. I would have loved to have met him. I can't count the number of times my guys saved my butt. Door gunners are the unsung heroes in that war. Here are a couple photos of my crew chief (door gunner when we took off) and door gunner with the 190th AHC, Harmon and Coons. My thanks to your Grandpa, and you for your service in the US Army.