Am I a Veteran?

Hunter 8282 I'm glad to see that you asked this question because the
same question has been on my mind for a while. I was in the IN NG
for six years during the Viet Nam era, Nov 1965 to Nov 1971 and I
have a dd214. I have wondered if that qualified me for the Army
insignia because I didn't want to claim anything I didn't deserve.
After my discharge( honorable ) I inquired about benefits and was told
that the 180 days of service was defined as 180 consecutive days
which no Guardsman would ever serve because I and presumably all
members got a short leave of absence between basic and advanced
training. Sort of a catch 22.
 
My Dad enlisted in 1935, was Federalized 1 Jan 1940, combat promotion to 2nd Lt., two years in the Aleutians, Normandy, blown off the side of a mountain by the Germans in 1944, discharged in 1946, then full time ANG staff (Asst AG, G3, Federal positions) until his death 20 years later. We were denied death benefits beyond simple burial coverage because he did not have enough active duty time.

When you catch up to him "on the other side", I'm sure, as an ANG brat in more ways than one, he'll recognize your time as being that of a veteran. He might have a choice word or two about the VA.

You served. Fortunately you were not sent off to the dark side of hell with 3 days notice. But you could have been, and I don't see you as one who would have bee-lined for Canada. You took the risk. You served. I'll buy you a beer and trade stories, for what its worth.
 
JohnSW said:
In contrast, if memory serves, during the Vietnam Era, being in the National Guard guaranteed that you would not be sent to Vietnam.
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Not true. My brother was in the Airborne NG unit based in
Muncie IN. They were activated and sent to Viet Nam after
going to Jungle school. I believe they were the only NG unit
activated during the Viet Nam war.
 
Being in the NG in that era simply got you better training up front. I missed a tour in-country by one day.
 
Hunter-- we had a super nice older gentleman that was a guard in a high-rise building where we had on office. He befriended us and vice versa, helping us with a multitude of things. We got to talking one day and he told me of his Viet Nam service as a Navy Seal. Everyone in the firm made a fuss over him and the next day he even brought his shadow box full of ribbons, patches, medals. We even bought him a huge food basket every Veterans Day. This was back several years ago before Seals were so much in the public eye, so I never gave it a second thought.

Fast forward a few years and I discover there are published lists of major military awards like the Purple Heart, Navy Cross, etc. that this guy claims he won. Low and behold he appears on none of the lists. I even check every person with his same last name, thinking he might be using his middle name. No one by his same last name won any award in Viet Nam, just WW I.

I then discover there are 100's of the false Seal claimants all over the country and that you can buy shadow boxes full of medals, uniforms, patches, insignias, etc. online and by the truck load.

I have been so internally troubled and embarrassed by this, I have never mentioned it to anyone at the office, or anyone else for that matter. Hell, I doubt if this guy was even in Junior high ROTC or Sergeant-at-arms of the moose lodge.

I think it speaks volumes about your Honor and sense of patriotism that you would even ask this question. And I think you have honored this country by your service.
 
Bkreutz said:
If you weren't a veteran, you wouldn't have gotten a Honorable Discharge. (you have to be in to get out:D)
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I enlisted in the Army in the 120 day delayed entrance program in 1966. The first thing I was handed when I showed up 120 days later was an honorable discharge from the inactive army reserves. I did not consider myself a veteran until I received my second honorable discharge 3 years later.
 
6518John said:
Hunter-- we had a super nice older gentleman that was a guard in a high-rise building where we had on office. He befriended us and vice versa, helping us with a multitude of things. We got to talking one day and he told me of his Viet Nam service as a Navy Seal. Everyone in the firm made a fuss over him and the next day he even brought his shadow box full of ribbons, patches, medals. We even bought him a huge food basket every Veterans Day. This was back several years ago before Seals were so much in the public eye, so I never gave it a second thought.

Fast forward a few years and I discover there are published lists of major military awards like the Purple Heart, Navy Cross, etc. that this guy claims he won. Low and behold he appears on none of the lists. I even check every person with his same last name, thinking he might be using his middle name. No one by his same last name won any award in Viet Nam, just WW I.

I then discover there are 100's of the false Seal claimants all over the country and that you can buy shadow boxes full of medals, uniforms, patches, insignias, etc. online and by the truck load.

I have been so internally troubled and embarrassed by this, I have never mentioned it to anyone at the office, or anyone else for that matter. Hell, I doubt if this guy was even in Junior high ROTC or Sergeant-at-arms of the moose lodge.

I think it speaks volumes about your Honor and sense of patriotism that you would even ask this question. And I think you have honored this country by your service.
Click to expand...

I have encountered a few people that have enamored their service and awards..
I would take them aside and call B.S.....Just to let them know I knew...
 
hoc9sw said:
Being in the NG in that era simply got you better training up front. I missed a tour in-country by one day.
Click to expand...

Very true. When I joined the Guard in 1965 saying things
were disorganized and loosely ran would be an
understatement. When I got out in 1971 things were vastly
different. During that time we got new Jeeps and duece and
a halfs( convoy trucks ) and rifles. The M1 Garands we had
were replaced with new M16s with the selector switch blocked
from full auto. Frankly I disliked the "Matty Mattels" as they
were called, particulary the triangular forearms and high line
of sight over the carry handle. I wished they had been M14s
instead since I trained with one in basic. We were on
"heightened alert" for some time which meant our weekend
drills were doubled to two a month rather than one. We were
told the reason was we were very likely going to be activated
and sent to Nam. Weekend drills had become something akin
to two days of basic training. But we all got through it and
I still consider my service quite unremarkable compared to
what many others endured.
 
In my humble opinion, it is not up to the Department of Veteran's Affairs to define what constitutes a "Military Veteran."

If anything, it works the other way around.

A military veteran is someone who has served in the uniformed military.

If they did so in the armed forces of the US (including the Guard and Reserve, by definition "part of the reserve forces of the United States Military" and an armed, uniformed military force as defined within the Geneva accords) and did so honorably, then they are deserving of the title & respect that go with it.

YMMV of course, but this is what I believe.
 
Hunter8282 said:
In high school I enlisted in the MI ARNG. I completed basic training the summer between my junior and senior years and then completed AIT after graduation. Each was 8 weeks long as I recall and then off to college.

I was on a 6x2 contract. I was never deployed or activated. Just weekend drills and 2 weeks in the summer. After the 6 years I got out and have an Honorable Discharge.

In trying to research this I came upon this document. fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42324.pdf

It's states: By statute, a "veteran" is defined as a "person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable."2
2 38 U.S.C. § 101(2); 38 C.F.R. § 3.1(d).

Is that in and of itself the core definition of a "veteran?" does my basic training and AIT satisfy this requirement?

I keep reading things about 180 days active service or during other set time periods. I once applied for an got approved for a VA home loan (though we did not use it). I am pretty certain I do not qualify for any other VA benefits such as medical, etc.

I have never considered myself a veteran but people have asked on and off through the years and I never really know what to say. I typically just say that I was in the ARNG.

I am humbled by all veterans and don't want to diminish their earned respect! THANKS to all you veterans!
Click to expand...


May I suggest you contact the VA and see if you are.
 
I can see your desire to know if you're technically considered a vet or not but it really don't mean nothin.
You know what you did and what you were willing to do.
It sounds like you're not concerned with the benefits and you could ask the VA about it, but you'll just get the beauracratic answer that determines your bennies or lack of them.
As far as I'm concerned, you're a vet.
 
Anyone who has served will recognize your service to our country. That is not in question. However, what we say means nothing when it comes to benefits.

There are two aspects, a moral one and a legal one. Your actions, attitude and actual time qualify you as a vet in my opinion. My opinion don't mean spit in the legal world.

Hunter8282 said:
I was on a 6x2 contract. I was never deployed or activated. Just weekend drills and 2 weeks in the summer. After the 6 years I got out and have an Honorable Discharge.
Click to expand...
What does it say at the top of your DD-124? On mine it says, "CERTIFICATE OF RELEASE OR DISCHARGE FROM ACTIVE DUTY." I have never seen another DD-214 so, I don't know if there are different ones.

I don't know all the legal ramifications of the veteran status. I do think it's worth putting a little more effort into. Call the VA.


On a side note, what does ARNG stand for? I've heard of the Army National Guard and the Army Reserve, but never the Army Reserve National Guard. The Reserves belong to the federal Army and the National Guard is controlled by the state. So, were you in the Reserves or National Guard?
 
When a person completes 20 good years in the Guard or Reserves they receive a military pension for life. Also a retired ID card that entitles them to the same benefits and insurance as a regular military retiree with the exception of some VA benefits. However these do not kick in until age 60. This is why I stayed in the ARNG for 40 years with 20 years as a full time mechanic which was civil service. Also a while back the reg was changed that on your correspondence you signed USA Ret. even though you were NG. I have good reason to believe that I am a veteran. What say you?
 
I was in the Alabama National Guard from 1963-1969 and we didn't use hearing protection at Fort Jackson back then. I think that is why I'm almost deaf as a fence post.

Have a blessed day,

Leon
 
My father did seven years active Navy and 25 years Naval Reserve. He had a DD214 for his active discharge, and a certificate of discharge for his Reserve discharge. For most gov't military benefits, you need a DD214. Some are available with Guard and Reserve service. As an example, we put Dad on the Veteran's Home waiting list when he started to decline. The Reserve certificate wouldn't do it. The DD214 would. Same for the bronze military grave marker, which we put on the back of his granite marker. Only DD214. Reserve service didn't count. As for calling yourself a veteran, clearly the line between active and guard/reserve has blurred in recent history, with guard/reserve units called up for a year at a time, multiple times, to fight the war on terrorism. My father did his entire reserve term without an active duty call up save for training. He was aged out right before Gulf I, tried to get back in, and was told no. Today, I think they would have taken him back. If you think you're a veteran, you're a veteran. Who am I to say otherwise . . . ?
 
One of Dad's piano tunes, (like so many I have no idea who wrote it). Dad was in the USAAC/USAAF during "the big one", and was recalled to serve in the USAF during the Korean "conflict"...

Oh in peacetime the regulars are happy,
Yes in peacetime they're anxious to serve,
But just let them get into trouble,
They call out the goshdarn* reserve.

(chorus) Call out, call out,
Call out the goshdarn* reserves...

Oh here's to the Regular Air Force,
They have such a regular plan,
They send the Reservist to Korea,
While the Regulars stay in Japan,

(chorus)

Here's to the Regular Air Force,
With thier medals and badges galore,
If it wern't for the goshdarn* Reservist,
Thier farce* would be dragging the floor,

(chorus)
 
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How can you get an Honorable Discharge for something you did not do? I suggest that you go to the American Legion and ask for their assistance in certifying your veteran status, and I don't know about anyone else, but basic and AIT Infantry qualify as active duty, as far as my own case is concerned!
 
Yes. As noted there are various requirement for Active Duty time to be eligible for certain benefits. In WWII 30% of the Army stayed Stateside, but they are still WWII veterans.
 
I was in the California Army Reserve National Guard from 1964 to 1970.
We did put in over 180 days of active duty. This included 6 months training (boot camp and cook school at the late Ft. Old), and 17 day summer camp training sessions for 5 summers. So, about 36 weeks total Federal active duty time. The remainder of the 6 year hitch we were under State control. We got paid for our drills, but they didn't count as active duty time, or toward retirement pay. All active (Federal) time did.
Guard units were being activated near the end of my hitch, the other Company at our Armory was put on "pin point" status. All of a sudden, they were issued new equipment, not the returned stuff we usually were issued. The First Sargent told me that Guard units called up did not serve together, rather they were sent as "fill ins" to Units in combat to replace personnel being sent home.
We were issued M14's at basic training and M1's back in our National Guard units. I had to qualify periodically with the M1 during monthly drills, but I was a cook the rest of the time.
My Grandfather was a cook during WW1, and my Dad was one during the occupation of Japan after WW2. Coincidence? I think not!
I was informed by the Veterans Affairs Administrator at work that I was considered a "Viet Nam War Era Veteran ". As opposed to a "Veteran of Foreign Wars".
My Grandsons gave me a "thank you for your service card" yesterday. That is my real proof of veterans status!

Best,
Rick
 
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Seems to me there's a gray area between what seems obvious (DD-214, Honorable Discharge, you wore the uniform), and, a big and - you were liable to be called into state or federal service at any time during those six years. You raised your right hand, took the oath and thereby put your life on call if need be.
The gray area is all the fine print in DD rules, which mostly govern who qualifies post-service for which benefits.
Small example - I was in the Washington, DC Army Nat'l Guard in the '60's, and one fine day around 1968, we were issued all new equipment, got all the shots for S. E. Asia service, and doubled our training time. We were pretty sure we were going to be sent to Vietnam. Then after the Martin Luther King riots, some local powers that be decided it was comforting to have a bunch of MP's right there in DC, so we went nowhere. Point is, we could have, and since 9-11, many, many Guard units have been sent to combat zones. Same happened in WWI, WWII and Korea - lots of Guard and reserve outfits were called to combat zones.
Remember, lots and lots of guys served in the regular Armed Forces and spent their time in a supply depot somewhere stateside and went home to their families every night. Nonetheless, they served, and so did you - be proud of offering yourself to whatever would come along. You're not a combat veteran; most who served are not, but you are a veteran. Tell people you served for six years in [name of outfit]
 
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I too was in the National Guard and transferred to the Army reserve.

You are active while in training and you are activated for 2 week summer camp I was told.

We might need an old reserve 1st Sgt to add to this.

Black Agnes answered it. Thanks.
 
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As far as I'm concerned You have a Honorable Discharge You are a Veteran.
 
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