Ammo choice - If the SHTF, does it REALLY matter?

[Arik]

Yes it matters....in a way. While something is better then nothing a quality hp self defense round is worlds better. In fmj bigger is better and of course price matters. This is why i only own common calibers. 44mag is over a $1/round, same for 44spl, 41mag and other odd calibers. I would not want to rely on them nor stock them. Stocking them is pricy and .....if we're talking shtf......if you have to leave your area or go mobile scrounging for those calibers wouldnt be realistic.

This kind of goes back to shtf in general. I would want a common caliber in a common gun that doesnt need tweaking or gunsmith tools. So for me its polymer guns and 9, 40, 45

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[YARDDOG]

You wasted Alot of backstrap on that shot FOR SURE (Sebago Son) ; )
Y/D

 

[poordevil]

On a heavy skinned or boned animal (bear) a solid bullet would ,IMO, be the better round as it will penetrate deeper. On light skinned or boned animals,the JHP would be better as it will hit hard, get bigger and and penetrate enough....hopefully.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Restated: If I shoot a bear, zombi, 2-legged vermin, etc with the FTX in the same spot as I shoot it with the Cowboy load, will the result be the same?

No. Cowboy loads are for killin' cowboys.

 

[therevjay]

Although HP for handguns and SP for rifles may be ideal. LRN or round ball will do the job . (they have for several hundred years)

 

[windsearcher]

shot placement has been pounded, so that's a given......

with that being said, IMO, if things come apart, its going to be more important to have ammo that is going to be 100% reliable and go "bang" every time, than the wiz-bang hyper-expanding zombie-exploders.

 

[rojodiablo]

Restated: If I shoot a bear, zombi, 2-legged vermin, etc with the FTX in the same spot as I shoot it with the Cowboy load, will the result be the same?

Yes; the offendi critter will spring a leak, and suffer a hematoma of unreal proportions.

Will it mean they will stop assaulting you? I dunno. Buuutt.... that is why I never use a single shot for anything but dove hunting!
Bang. Bangbangbangbang.....THUD.

Most important was as stressed by Mr Jbk.... the ammo and gun need to get along well enough that the ammo works in the gun, every time.

 

[rojodiablo]

No. Cowboy loads are for killin' cowboys.

No, they were for killin' Injuns.

Never played cowboys and cowboys as a kid, and never desired to experiment with that silly stuff as an adult, either!

 

[Sebago Son]

You wasted Alot of backstrap on that shot FOR SURE (Sebago Son) ; )
Y/D

Suprisingly, no I didn't. The hit was high, as the rifle was sighted for 250 yards, but it only took upper ribs and slid in nicely under the backstrap. It was fine once I fished out a few bone slivers.

The point is that if you use enough gun to begin with, then bullet selection is not nearly as critical.

This is the result of a .35 caliber, 200 grain, off the shelf softpoint bullet at 2100 fps. This bullet's design is 50 years old.



Penetration was complete.

 

[OK Hog Shooter]

I've given this a lot of thought, given the experience and valid comments expressed here, and my conclusion is thus: a round that you've shot a lot of in a firearm that works every time when you pull the trigger, shot placement and practice, practice, practice works for me, regardless of the intended target. Besides, I wouldn't want to get hit with any of the afore mentioned calibers!

 

[BigBill]

It's said here it's pick a caliber and the round your going to carry and one gun to practice, practice and more practice. Well said above for sure. But I would shoot at 25yards to practice too. Any caliber can be a stopper within reason, but the size of the varmit does matter.(bear?) When I walk in the woods with the feeling of walking into the unknown factors in and I ask myself do I carry enough gun for being situation that may arise two legged or four legged? A 9mm maybe ok for the common cities and small towns but out in the wilds the game does change. I live in the rural small farm area and we have coyotes, bobcat, lynx, mountainlions and bears all around us. To me a smaller caliber just doesn't cover it all. I seen a real life mountainlion attack in Canada on tv where a mountainlion had the Hunter by the head and it took 4 shots from a rifle before it let go. To me my 41mag or my 44mag is plenty of gun but it is about the shot placement.

I have taught my children since they were knee high to stay alert when there in the woods. To pay attention to there surroundings, use there sight,
there hearing and there nose to smell the air foul oders too. So far while walking the dog in the woods they came across a mountainlion eating a fresh kill. Luckily the lion was too busy eating to notice them. They just backed out. My point is being alert a came save your life too and teach your kids about the wilds. About foul oders most of the time if the wind is right you will smell a bear before you see it.

Sorry I don't know too much about zombies but that zombie ammo has to be the best marketing ploy I have ever seen.

 

[M3Stuart]

IMHO; No. Though I would carry a .357 instead of a .38 if I might encounter a big animal.

If you're talking zombies, then I vote for "weight of fire". Since zombies move slow and don't shoot back, I think anything would do. I guess they kind of run in some movies...

 

[brucev]

So, I was walking around the woods today with my Charter Arms .44spl loaded with Hornaday's "Critical Defense" 165gr FTX but had a box of MagTech 240gr L-Flat Nose Cowboy loads at the house and it got me to thinikin'. If I were to come across a ferrel dog, bear, 2-legged vermin, Zombi, (name your nemesis) would it really matter? Looking for your oppinion.

For general run of the mill problems, either of the two loads you cite would be very effective, if you put the round into the vitals. If you only hit superficially, etc., then you'll have to try, try again! Of course that would be the case regardless of if you were using anything from a .22 LR right on up to a S&W .500!

I do not own a CA .44 Spc. I do however own and enjoy using a S&W 21-4. When I could find them, I routinely loaded it with 200 gr. Gold Dots for HD. For out and about in the woods, it was loaded with Winchester 240 gr. LFN Cowboy Action loads. Either load POI was POA at 15 yds. I simply could not afford enough of the GD's to actually know where they hit on small targets at 25 yds. By experience I know that the WCA ammo worked well on out at 25yds. and beyond.

If you should have a chance, you might want to see if you can find some Winchester Silver-Tip .44 Special ammo. It is perhaps not now so fashionable in the present day era that supposes all ammo selection must bow down before the high altar of FBI protocols. But when bullets were only expected to work on people, etc., word is that it was very effective.

 

[roarindan]

I'll have a chicken salad sandwich and a cup of potato soup.


if you're so worried about a few cents when defending kilth&kin best you carry 2-3 guns ,a knife, a ball bat and some bear spray!!

 

[kwselke]

Years ago I was out target shooting with my brand new Glock-O-Matic 19 and decided to save one magazine full of 9 MM FMJ for the mile or so walk back to the house.

I ended up walking up on three feral hogs in the 250 lb. class. I slowly pulled the Glock out of my shoulder holster and took dead aim right between the eyes of the closest hog, about 20 yards from me. I squeezed off a round. The hogs all ran like hell and I urged them on by emptying the full 15 rounds out of the magazine.

To this day I am sure that first shot hit and bounced off hog noggin. It was fun. The moral of the story is that you use what you have at hand, and sometimes it is better to have a Model 629 with round house loads.

 

[crofoot629]

Some of the answer depends on the caliber of weapon being used.

I often times carry a 4” 629 loaded with Corbon’s 165 Grn JHP at 1300 fps. (44 Mag Light)
I think it’s a better load for self defense than a 44 Special lead SWC. I hope it will expand, offering better terminal perfomance, and not over penetrate, on humans. Though I’d feel quite safe with the LSWC’s too.

I also take a Marlin Guide gun camping a lot. Does it matter if it’s loaded with low pressure 300 Grn JHP’s or low pressure 405 JSP’s? Probably not, but I still choose the 405’s. On river trips I just might have to shoot a bear.

All of my 5.56 is M193. Mostly IMI. At $0.30 per round I choose to stack it deep, rather than buy some $1.00 a round zombie killers, and a mix of other 5.56, that is see a lot of other folks do. This round actually performs better terminally for my intended use than the barrier blind rounds.

I think smaller diameter handgun rounds like the 9MM and .357, have a lot of performance to be gained by choosing a good hollow point over a fmc or non expanding round.

With your particular round, the .44 Special, I think the actual bullet makes less difference. IMHO.

Emory

 

[BJoe]

Years ago I was out target shooting with my brand new Glock-O-Matic 19 and decided to save one magazine full of 9 MM FMJ for the mile or so walk back to the house.

I ended up walking up on three feral hogs in the 250 lb. class. I slowly pulled the Glock out of my shoulder holster and took dead aim right between the eyes of the closest hog, about 20 yards from me. I squeezed off a round. The hogs all ran like hell and I urged them on by emptying the full 15 rounds out of the magazine.

To this day I am sure that first shot hit and bounced off hog noggin. It was fun. The moral of the story is that you use what you have at hand, and sometimes it is better to have a Model 629 with round house loads.

Hog heads are REAL tough and it isn't unusual for a 9 to bounce. By the same token I lost a friend, in a robbery, with one shot from a .22 to the head.

 

[keith44spl]

.

So, I was walking around the woods today with my Charter Arms .44spl loaded with Hornaday's "Critical Defense" 165gr FTX but had a box of MagTech 240gr L-Flat Nose Cowboy loads at the house and it got me to thinikin'. If I were to come across a ferrel dog, bear, 2-legged vermin, Zombi, (name your nemesis) would it really matter? Looking for your oppinion.

.
My experience with the Charter Arms chambered in .44 Special, the lite weight revolver when fired with the heavier weight bullets....
They had a tendency to jump the case crimp and end up protruding out of the cylinder, tying the revolver up.

However, from more experiences,,,,

I once shot a 500# steer in the forehead (the steer had lost a run in with a ton pickup truck) with a forty sumthing caliber JHP round....
To my amazement, I could see the base of said bullet at the point of aim, sumwhat red faced, I return'd to my cruiser and retrieved a couple of hard cast SWCs from the door pocket and finished the job.

So what works on soft tissue may or may not work as well on bone and brawn.

So, for whilst woods bummin' around and general ranch chores,
I carry mostly hard cast SWCs over a reasonable dose of my favorite powder at moderate velocities.


.

 

[nachogrande]

SHTF SCENARIO & BULLET CHOICE

I believe that was the original ? and that could cover a wide range of scenarios and topics, from dogs to bears to Zombies to terminal ballistics to aftermath legal issues etc. since the threat may not be human, may not have a gun, let's just call it a "potentially life threatening encounter" MY BELIEF is rule #1 STAY ALIVE by any and all means at your disposal. all the other rules, refer to rule #1. if you are still alive and land in court afterwards let the lawyers worry about if you used handloads/ BLACK TALONS/ or NERF bullets or what type of clothes you had on etc. obviously placement is more important than bullet selection. having a bullet capable of reaching the vital areas is nice but no bullet is gonna be the perfect choice for dogs thru grizzlies. if you have good placement and penetration then an explosively expanding bullet should not be needed, but it looks cool on Zombies. I'm getting kind of retro when back in the days of black powder, big dangerous game in Africa and India, large caliber heavy cast bullets, moving crazy slow by todays standards, were the top choice and worked well. what are you most likely to encounter on your outings, grizzlies, cape buffalo, dogs, meth heads. often a simple loud plastic whistle will send most of them running and I've never heard of anyone going to jail over one.

 

[Doug M.]

In revolvers, I am a fan of the heavy for caliber, moderate velocity SWC. In a light .44 special, that may present problems with the gun, as noted above. In my 296 I carry the 200 grain Gold Dot loaded in the Blazer case. I tend to stick with proven service ammo for the 45ACP auto pistols in my revolver in that caliber. In other autos, I also stick with the proven service loads (see Doc Roberts' reports). I did not have any luck finding a reasonable quality, stout load, decent price SWC in .38/.357 , so I went with the short barrel GD in .357.

I'll admit that the odds of me encountering a 4 legged animal bigger or more dangerous than a feral dog or maybe a cougar (low odds of that) are slight; most of the risk is still "humans".