AMMO TO AVOID

[M E Morrison]

This thread got me searching and can't find an answer. What is the purpose of steel cased ammo?

That was done in countries where brass was in short supply. During WW 2 the US made occasional batches of .45 ACP, just to keep in practice in event that brass became unavailable. Steel doesn't "spring back" quite as well as brass, so generally speaking those guns have beefier extractors.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Hundreds of thousands of rounds fired here in the last 10 years. The last Wolf 9mm ammo we got is running almost 6% FTF in striker fired guns. Anything with a hammer, 1911, BHP, and others with hammers are 99% good to go. We save all the ones that don't go BANG. No other center fire FTF, none. NOW we have noticed a lot more POOOOFS than in the past. Weak sister loads that cannot be counted on to run semis, let alone full autos. Rimfires, generally hit and miss, literally. If you have a RF that will shoot white box WW or some Federal stuff you are a lucky shooter. If you have a RF semi or full auto that won't run on CCI Minimags, you gotta real lemon. We shoot a lot, the cream rises to the top on ammo and weapons platforms.

 

[CaptRon956]

I think I'm going to add Federal "Champion" aluminum cased 9mm 115gr. to the list.... Today I felt cheap & tried two boxes I picked up at my local Walmart (wally walked it too) They have them at reg cost $9.97 a box...

Out of the two boxes I found 6 rounds that were seated too deep. They almost looked like .380 rounds they were squished in there that deep. Unless the sales kid working there dropped a few boxes while stocking them I didnt feel comfortable shooting them so I donated the rest of them to the next guy at the range. (short rounds I tossed away)

I'm just going to stick to my Win Train & defend & freedom munitions....

 

[one eye joe]

I WOULD AVOID REMINGTON AND WINCHESTER IN ANY CALIBER, ACROSS THE BOARD. I LIKE CCI FOR .22LR, AND SPEER IN HANDGUNS, IN ANY OTHER CALIBER, ACROSS THE BOARD, FOR TARGET SHOOTING OR SELF DEFENSE……

FOR HUNTING OR WOODS WALKING IN MOOSE OR BEAR COUNTRY, I PREFER HEAVY HARDCAST AMMO BY BUFFALO BORE, OR GARRETT IN .44 MAG OR .45 COLT…..

 

[growr]

I avoid ALL once fired .22LR's...they don't feed worth a darn and I cannot find any primers ,powder, dies or bullets for them!!

Not even worth picking up...I just leave them for some brass hoarders.

Randy

 

[chief38]

In my opinioon:

.22 Rimfire's BEST offerings are from CCi and Federal - avoid Winchester and Remington unless desperate or you can get them at great prices - just be prepared for failures.

For self defense & home defense I'd go with offerings from Speer and Buffalo Bore. IMHO they are the most reliable and most efficient you can get in a Factory load.

I would avoid the more recent offerings by newcomers and radically designed ammo . On paper they may be interesting and may sound good but the results I've seen are less than impressive. One of my friends just blew up a brand new out of the box revolver on the very first shot with one of the new fragmenting type bullets. The gun manufacturer blames the ammo and the ammo company blames the gun. Bottom line is I doubt that main stream ammo would have resulted in that disaster. Not saying all new ammo offerings are bad, I'd just avoid them for SD purposes UNTIL they have been street proven and not just touted on Youtube videos.

 

[fixitfred]

Last week I sent Remington a letter explaining to them that I have a box in my desk drawer containing 38, 22 LR golden ctges from the green box. They were fired from 5 or 6 different gun's both rifles and handguns in the last 6 months. I told them that I would send them back to them if they can tell me a legal way to do it. Some were struck on the rim three times.
In my opinion Remington has a problem with quality control. The priming material doesn't appear to be getting into the whole rim of the ctge. Its only been a few days so I have not received a reply to my letter. I have not had a problem with other brands of 22 ammo.

Can you imagine being in a business right now where you can say and do almost anything you want and still have people busting your door down to buy all the product you can produce?

Welcome to today's 22LR manufacturers. They just want to put out product and take advantage as long as they can and get all the money they can.

When you say you wrote a letter did you actually write a letter and put a stamp on it?

 

[gen3guy]

I agree with those who avoid Remington and steel cased ammo, but I'm going to add a different twist to this...just because I can. I avoid Aguila ammo because it's made in Mexico. Living in a border state, I know exactly what would happen to me if I got caught with even one round of any ammo in my possession while in Mexico. They don't have anything close to a Bill of Rights down there, let alone the right to keep and bear arms. Yet they will happily facilitate an industry to send it north of the border. The police are corrupt, the government is corrupt, and the military is in bed with the drug cartels. The Mexican people deserve better. I don't go south of the border and I don't use their ammo.

 

[Arik]

Anyone that has 9, 40, 45, 38spl, 357, in steel case and doesn't want it let me know

 

[hittman77]

What brands of ammo should be avoided.

22LR Remington Thunderbolt

 

[RV4driver]

I can't use Blaser Aluminum in my Walther PPQ's. It runs fine in everything else I have. Extraction issues.
I have around a thousand rounds of the stuff, so I'm glad it works in Smiths, Berettas, and Glocks.

 

[Ranger17]

I have to say this has been an interesting thread to read thru; while i expect to see the common issues with .22 i was surprised to see those who have had trouble with other calibers. My 9c and FS9 both have had zero trouble with any of the 115fmj i have run thru it. In fact UMC (Remington) is one of my go-to practice rounds and i will grab Herters for cheap range ammo again with no issues. I will say though i avoid steel cased or a brand i am not familiar with.
Maybe the above is just due to my not having as much experience as some others to compare to, or perhaps the MP line can run about anything thru them.

 

[HoundDog316]

HPR. It's a fairly new company, sadly made in USA. Had a bullet just fall out of the case in their defensive ammo line. Dumped the powder in the mag & gun, requiring complete teardown & cleaning. Checked a few others in the box (less that 1 year old) and with light finger pressure 2 more just came out. I sent multiple e-mails to the company customer service e-mail address with no response. Lesson learned, thankfully not during a critical life-saving event. Right now, sticking with Hornady Critical Duty for defense.

 

[MyDads38]

It's funny that most the ammo listed is ammo that I have very good luck with in all my guns. Winchester White Box has never given me any issues, the 40 S&W has been some of the more accurate and cleaner than others I have used. REM-UMC has also been accurate and reliable in all my guns-9mm & 45acp. It is the ONLY ammo that I had a "flash & bang" with, out of a 250 round mega pak. I immediately stopped and unloaded to make sure the bullet had exited the barrel. It had and all was good. This is the ONLY time I've had an issue with any center fire ammo.

22 LR has been so hard to come by, but the Remington Thunderbolt 22's run like a house on fire through my 1999 Browning Buck Mark-and are just as accurate as anything else I've been able to find to shoot. The only 22 LR that failed to feed/eject was Federal Champion #510, and I chalked that up to the gun needing cleaned.

I don't shoot steel case ammo in any of my guns, handgun or AR; just my preference. I don't shoot other's reloads and I tried Freedom Munitions Re-manufactured ammo-9mm seemed okay but I wouldn't use the 45 auto again-felt like shooting a 357 mag and it was supposed to be standard ball specs. Still have a box of the 38 Special I haven't shot yet, not sure I want to shoot it in my Dad's Nickel Model 10 HB. That gun, to me, is irreplaceable!

I think we can all agree though, that QC on ammo the past few years has been pretty "hit & miss". Sadly, it seems to be an issue with some firearms as well. I would like to think that it will get better, if the buying panic slows down from what it has been. I've noticed that the price of 22 LR at gun shows has come way down-what used to be priced $80-$100 + per brick, is now down to around $45 and still sitting on the tables.

 

[M E Morrison]

It's funny that most the ammo listed is ammo that I have very good luck with in all my guns. Winchester White Box has never given me any issues, the 40 S&W has been some of the more accurate and cleaner than others I have used. REM-UMC has also been accurate and reliable in all my guns-9mm & 45acp. It is the ONLY ammo that I had a "flash & bang" with, out of a 250 round mega pak. I immediately stopped and unloaded to make sure the bullet had exited the barrel. It had and all was good. This is the ONLY time I've had an issue with any center fire ammo.

22 LR has been so hard to come by, but the Remington Thunderbolt 22's run like a house on fire through my 1999 Browning Buck Mark-and are just as accurate as anything else I've been able to find to shoot. The only 22 LR that failed to feed/eject was Federal Champion #510, and I chalked that up to the gun needing cleaned.

I don't shoot steel case ammo in any of my guns, handgun or AR; just my preference. I don't shoot other's reloads and I tried Freedom Munitions Re-manufactured ammo-9mm seemed okay but I wouldn't use the 45 auto again-felt like shooting a 357 mag and it was supposed to be standard ball specs. Still have a box of the 38 Special I haven't shot yet, not sure I want to shoot it in my Dad's Nickel Model 10 HB. That gun, to me, is irreplaceable!

I think we can all agree though, that QC on ammo the past few years has been pretty "hit & miss". Sadly, it seems to be an issue with some firearms as well. I would like to think that it will get better, if the buying panic slows down from what it has been. I've noticed that the price of 22 LR at gun shows has come way down-what used to be priced $80-$100 + per brick, is now down to around $45 and still sitting on the tables.

My experience with T-bolt has been the same - no misfires, accuracy OK at least out to 50 yds. The only downside is that it is dirtier than most, but regular cleanings take care of the minor problem.

As for centerfire, none of the national brands has ever given me any problems. I too refuse to shoot steel case thru anything not designed for it - and I avoid the small start up companies like the plague - at least until they have been out long enough to get a reputation - good or bad.

 

[wild47]

I haven't had any really big problems with any brand of ammo that I've tried. The only problems I've had aren't all that problematic, they are: as has been said about Remington .22's, they're dirty and do lead too much.
Winchester center fire in 9mm, .38 super, .38 spl,, and .357 mag. have brass splitting on out of the box cartridges, not a lot but enough that I'm leery of using their brass for reloading.
Some foreign ammo brands just aren't all that consistent when it comes to accuracy.
On the subject of Steel ammo, I've used quite a bit of Wolf .45 acp and have never had any problem... it does work in every 45 I've shot it in, now. I discovered that the guns that didn't shoot the Wolf .45 acp at first wouldn't shoot Blazer Aluminum ammo either until I adjusted the extractors, then all was well. An interesting side note about the Wolf .45 acp is that it's the most accurate round out of my 4.6" Blackhawk Convertible... imagine that.

Take care, Wild47

 

[counter-clockwise]

Last week I sent Remington a letter explaining to them that I have a box in my desk drawer containing 38, 22 LR golden ctges from the green box. They were fired from 5 or 6 different gun's both rifles and handguns in the last 6 months. I told them that I would send them back to them if they can tell me a legal way to do it. Some were struck on the rim three times.
In my opinion Remington has a problem with quality control. The priming material doesn't appear to be getting into the whole rim of the ctge. Its only been a few days so I have not received a reply to my letter. I have not had a problem with other brands of 22 ammo.

My father had an issue with their 125 grain .357 mags a few years back. The primers would warp and expand causing the gun to jam. He e-mailed them, and although it took a few days, they responded by sending label for him to ship them back. After a week or so, they sent him 100 rounds of their best stuff.

 

[M E Morrison]

My father had an issue with their 125 grain .357 mags a few years back. The primers would warp and expand causing the gun to jam. He e-mailed them, and although it took a few days, they responded by sending label for him to ship them back. After a week or so, they sent him 100 rounds of their best stuff.

Guess that was back when they still cared!

 

[THE PILGRIM]

You have convinced me to avoid Thunderbolts!

Brass vs. Steel cases?
Brass is expensive, steel is cheap.

 

[pharmer]

Let's see, I don't use steel or aluminum case ammo, Remington Thunderbolt or anything by American Ammo out of Miami. Other than that, it's all good. Joe

 

[Ed Fowler]

Any manufacturer can have problems when the are making millions of rounds. What matters to me is how they work with their customers when something goes wrong. Remington has always treated me fairly, I will use their ammo for what it is.

Last month I was shooting my Win Mod 61 22 LR rifle. I was shooting 10 shot groups at 50 yards wanting to shoot a 1/2 inch 10 shot group. I was shooting Federal Premium Target ammo. Shot one box and always had about 3 flyers out of 7 good shots. After one box of ammo I decided to try again. Loaded 10 rounds chambered the first round and it literally exploded, much smoke, hissing noise and it blew the extractor out of my rifle about 30 yards from where I was shooting. The bullet was stuck in the barrel about 14 inches from the chamber. The base of the next cartridge in the magazine tube was black.

I called Federal, talked to man named Ryan, and he asked me to send all the ammo I had from that lot (2HG152) and what was left of the cartridge, I did so the next day.

After some time I called and asked what they had found, I was told that the rest of the ammo was found to be "in spec" and that the Lab found that the round had been fired out of battery!

My gunsmith and I removed the bullet from a 22 long rifle cartridge, dumped the power and tried to force the rifle to fire out of battery. It would not fire out of battery.

I called Ryan back and told him, he said that his lab was much smarter than we were!! He did say they would send me a check for the ammo I sent back. I have not seen a check yet.

I can see them not wanting to own up to a mistake on their part, but to blame a rifle instead of simply saying "we are sorry it happened" would you like more ammo or a check" tells me they are not to be trusted.

For that reason I will never buy anything Federal makes again.

I do wish that we had available an independent Lab that we could use when problems like this occur, the way it is we in good faith send all evidence to the manufacturer and have to swallow their reply.

 

[medic15al]

American Ammunition (A-MERC) Is so shoddy it is dangerous! Soft brass, inconsistent charges, off center priming holes, erratic seating depts...

 

[M E Morrison]

Any manufacturer can have problems when the are making millions of rounds. What matters to me is how they work with their customers when something goes wrong. Remington has always treated me fairly, I will use their ammo for what it is.

Last month I was shooting my Win Mod 61 22 LR rifle. I was shooting 10 shot groups at 50 yards wanting to shoot a 1/2 inch 10 shot group. I was shooting Federal Premium Target ammo. Shot one box and always had about 3 flyers out of 7 good shots. After one box of ammo I decided to try again. Loaded 10 rounds chambered the first round and it literally exploded, much smoke, hissing noise and it blew the extractor out of my rifle about 30 yards from where I was shooting. The bullet was stuck in the barrel about 14 inches from the chamber. The base of the next cartridge in the magazine tube was black.

I called Federal, talked to man named Ryan, and he asked me to send all the ammo I had from that lot (2HG152) and what was left of the cartridge, I did so the next day.

After some time I called and asked what they had found, I was told that the rest of the ammo was found to be "in spec" and that the Lab found that the round had been fired out of battery!

My gunsmith and I removed the bullet from a 22 long rifle cartridge, dumped the power and tried to force the rifle to fire out of battery. It would not fire out of battery.

I called Ryan back and told him, he said that his lab was much smarter than we were!! He did say they would send me a check for the ammo I sent back. I have not seen a check yet.

I can see them not wanting to own up to a mistake on their part, but to blame a rifle instead of simply saying "we are sorry it happened" would you like more ammo or a check" tells me they are not to be trusted.

For that reason I will never buy anything Federal makes again.

I do wish that we had available an independent Lab that we could use when problems like this occur, the way it is we in good faith send all evidence to the manufacturer and have to swallow their reply.

That's an easy way out for the manufacturer - the only defective round is gone.....

FYI, I have had out of battery / slam fire in my Remington semi auto M66, so it does happen - but luckily it is rare.

 

[vipermd]

Centerfire Rifle (7mm Mag, 30/30, 30/06, & 444 Marlin®) - No Remington® Ammo, too inaccurate. Prefer Federal®, Hornady®.

I am curious as to the accuracy problems that you have had with Rem? I shoot 30-30 & 45-70 with open sights so 100 yds is moot point. In stock Rem 760's, 742,savage 110, who knows how many Mausers, and a Win mod 70. All of the scoped rifles will do under 1" @ 100 yds, the best is a .255" 3 shots out of the freshly cleaned win 70. The above guns are all factory stock, my "other" guns are fed hand loads or occasional Fed Gold Medal. I have been hunting with the 3006 for 47 yrs this fall, I have never needed more than one shot on hundreds of deer, the few bear & boar I have shot. I buy 06 by the case and have had ONE round that did not fire, out of thousands of rounds. I have been shooting the one 760 since 1975 and never had a problem that was not operator error.
That is why I am curious, " lucky", as to the difficulty that you have had with it and is this recent ammo, and with multiple guns? Thank You for any info. Be Safe,

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

This thread got me searching and can't find an answer. What is the purpose of steel cased ammo?

Because it's less expensive than brass.

All steel cased ammo come predominately from Russia and ex-ComBloc nations. Even the cases for Hornady's Steel Match line comes from Russia. There is no U.S. manufacturer that making steel cased ammo.

 

[John R]

The only one that I won't use is A-Merc, never had any luck with their brass, it's junk.

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

American Ammunition (A-MERC) Is so shoddy it is dangerous! Soft brass, inconsistent charges, off center priming holes, erratic seating depts...

A-Merc has been out of business close to 15+ years now. It may still be possible to find some A-Merc floating around at gun shows, but not all A-Marc ammo is bad. At one time they did use cases from Starline, Olin and IMI. That ammo was fine. It was when they started using cheap poor quality brass from some unknown maker towards the end was when QC started going down hill.

 

[MichiganScott]

The conclusion I've come to after reading this thread is that some shooters swear by the same ammo that others swear at.

 

[usm1rifle]

Last week I sent Remington a letter explaining to them that I have a box in my desk drawer containing 38, 22 LR golden ctges from the green box. They were fired from 5 or 6 different gun's both rifles and handguns in the last 6 months. I told them that I would send them back to them if they can tell me a legal way to do it. Some were struck on the rim three times.
In my opinion Remington has a problem with quality control. The priming material doesn't appear to be getting into the whole rim of the ctge. Its only been a few days so I have not received a reply to my letter. I have not had a problem with other brands of 22 ammo.

Did Remington ever get back to you?

 

[Ed Fowler]

ME Morrison: I agree totally!

I was shooting from a bench, carefully chambering each round, I know beyond a doubt that that round was fully chambered.

For those who are not familiar with the Win. Mod 61, it is a miniature Mod 12, a pump rifle that to me is the sweetest of all pump 22 rifles. It has not been made since the 70's, this one is immaculate, when I traded for it it I doubt that it had shot many rounds.

I found Federal's response ignorant, degrading and offensive.