An early five-screw .38 Military & Police

[DCWilson]

I recently acquired this early .38 Hand Ejector (SN 66842, shipped September 20, 1905). I already had a 1902 first change (round butt) with a four-inch barrel and a 1905 first change (square butt) with a 6 1/2 inch barrel, so this gun represents the intervening state in the engineering development of the M&P. It has the fifth screw in front of the trigger guard that is lacking in my 1902, but still has the flat spring/rocker-arm trigger return that would be replaced by the coil-driven rebound slide in the subsequent design/engineering change in 1906. The fifth screw is reported to have appeared first with serial number 62450, and the rebound slide with serial number 73250.

I didn't bother to remove the sideplate for a photo of the action, but the position of the rebound stud on the left side of the revolver attests to which trigger return mechanism is present.

The fifth screw:

The serial number:

The stocks are not numbered, but fit perfectly and are appropriate for the era. The serial number on the butt is found also on the usual hard parts of the revolver. The finish has some microabrasions and speckles, but no gouges or rust. The action is crisp.

This revolver was shipped to the A.G. Alford Sporting Goods Co. in Baltimore MD. I haven't found any other S&Ws that were shipped to this destination, but suspect that they must exist. Albert Gallatin Alford was born in VT in 1848, had a periodically active military career from 1865 to after 1880, and died in 1925.

 

[ChattCat]

Very nice and clean looking M&P.

 

[ralph7]

Original finish? 117 years old, impressive.
Is the round butt the norm for this era?

 

[DCWilson]

Is the round butt the norm for this era?

Is that a trick question?

There is a long-standing conversation about what constitutes the defining characteristics of the Models of 1902 and 1905; grip shape and internal design changes have both been involved. I purposely didn't call this revolver either a 1902 or 1905; the gun itself is more interesting than any model designation that might be applied to it.

In general, and referring to an actual calendar year (not a model named with a specific calendar year), it is the case that .38 hand ejectors produced before and in part of 1905 overwhelmingly had round butt frames, and .38 hand ejectors in the rest of 1905 and several following decades overwhelmingly had square butt frames.

I've learned my lesson trying to talk about this on other occasions, and that's all anyone is going to get out of me.

 

[wheelgun610]

... Is the round butt the norm for this era?

I'm sure that debate will ensue shortly.

And I don't think anyone would question whether or not those stocks are the originals that gun shipped with. They fit the contours of that frame too well to have come from another gun.

Mark

 

[Retired W4]

David, that is just way too cool. Great diplomatic answer in post #4 as well. Congratulations on the acquisition.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Must more interesting than the shape of the butt is the internal action stuff that was going on at this time.

 

[SS336]

Very nice revolver!
Case hardening on the trigger and hammer looks great.
The stocks look to fit perfect and I wonder if the penciled numbers have just disappeared with age.
I really like the older M&P's an awful lot, my favorite I think.

 

[DCWilson]

A prior owner also considered the stocks unmarked. I even took them outside and rolled them back and forth under bright sun to see if reflections from graphite traces would paint a digit or two on my retinas. No such luck.

I suppose if this was the only round butt revolver coming through the final assembly process that day among all the now standard square butt units, there would have been no reason to number the stocks. One set of round butt stocks on the sideboard, one round butt gun gets to the stock and box table -- on the stocks go without a second thought.

Or some other imaginable explanation.

 

[mikepriwer]

David

Regarding the question about the 'norm', the first .38 square-butt K-frame to be shipped was serial number 58000. All K-frames prior to the serial number were round butts, which make them the norm, as well as the only, K-frames shipped. From 58000 forward, both round-butt and square-butt frames are inter-mixed in the same serial number series. (The same phenomenon applies to the 32-20 series, but at a different starting serial number.)

Following the guidelines of all the catalogs and other marketing materials, the one and only difference between contemporary round butt and square butt models is the configuration of the butt. The internal design, function, parts, and engineering changes are otherwise one and the same. That is, the butt configuration is the one and only distinguishing feature difference between the two models.

Your revolver is in the shortest serial number range, of all the engineering change intervals, going from 62450 to 73250. As you noted, the defining feature of this range is the redesign of the cylinder stop, which added the 5th frame screw in the front of the trigger guard, which retains the cylinder stop spring, making the spring external to the cylinder stop. Prior to the change, the spring was internal to the cylinder stop, which made it much more difficult to keep clean. Also, the front of the trigger was changed, to provide a much better design for engaging and pulling down the cylinder stop.

For collectors seeking examples of significant engineering changes, this is an important revolver to own.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[DCWilson]

Mike, I was hoping you would think this particular revolver was worth a comment, and I thank you for your observations. I appreciate the added details of the actual engineering change behind the introduction of the fifth screw, and thank you also for reminding me of the serial number of the first square butt revolver in this series. I knew there were SB units below SN 62450 and RB units above that number, but did not remember the lower limit of that range. I consider myself fortunate to have found this specimen of the latter, and I am keeping my eyes open for one of the former.

 

[mikepriwer]

David

Appreciate your comments. Using a definition of 'rare' that I found on the internet, your gun is rare, in that they are seldom seen.

I believe that there are three significant engineering changes, that transitioned the 1899's into the the foundation of the modern revolvers. The first was strengthening the barrel threads, which resulted in the shoulder on the barrel. The second was the simplification of the design of the cylinder stop, which brought the 5th frame screw. This is the change that your gun represents. (This was transitory itself, and that screw was eliminated when they realized, in the 1950's, that it wasn't necessary after all.) The final change occurs about a year later, when the trigger rebound mechanism is improved with the new rebound slide.

These three changes take place over about a 3 year period, which speaks volumes about the engineering department at Smith & Wesson. They really were paying attention to their product.

Regards, Mike Priwer