An interesting Pre-War Kit Gun

[Doctor Grape Ape]

Let me start off this thread by saying that I completely lucked into this gun as I had bought some nice J-frame round butt Sanderson's off eBay for cheap and wanted a gun to put them on. I went looking for a 34 but not finding any I liked/for a price I was willing to pay I expanded my search and found this:

It didn't come like that, it came with some later baby Magnas but I had these on another revolver and they're closer to what came on the gun originally (at least based on the location of the serial). The Sandersons looked a little too large on such a small gun so the hunt is still on for a 34 (or rather, a 34 with a 35 barrel, that'd be perfect).

Anyway, gun looks pretty good, right? Ehhh, let's look at the other side.

Oh my. It's like the Harvey Dent of Kit Guns.

So why is this gun interesting? It has everything to do with the serial number: 527711. A little background: Kit Gun production started around serial # 529950 but there was a prototype/pilot production run in the 527xxx range. To my knowledge, only one other of these guns is known to exist, serial # 527712, which Victor Wesson took possession of in 1934. You can read about/see that gun in this thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha.../179319-22-32-heavy-frame-target-kit-gun.html

The previous owner was kind enough to send me the S&W Historical Foundation letter, which he had forgotten he had until he went to ship the gun. I have scanned those pages and you can read them here: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Those pages lead one to wonder about two things: how many others are there and if Victor took possession of his gun in 1934, but this gun didn't ship out until 1938, what the heck was it doing for those interim 4 years?

While cleaning the gun up yesterday I took some pictures of the internals, you can see them in this album: Imgur: The magic of the Internet


A few things stuck out to me while cleaning it:

- The cylinder stop was fit incredibly close to the frame, tighter than any other I have encountered, to remove it from the gun required carefully manipulating it so that it remained totally level. The fit on this piece really impressed me.

- The yoke has been deliberately polished, the bluing didn't just wear off of it.

- The hand fitting/honing on the sear surfaces and rebound slide is as close to perfect as I have seen on a factory gun. Single action is spectacularly good, double action is smooth (much smoother than my 1914 .32 I-frame, that one stacks up).

- The mainspring has been hardened/tempered so that the part near the strain screw is hard which moves the point at which it bends further up the spring. The gun also came with a copper piece of shim stock between the strain screw and mainspring. Don't know who put it there or when but I put it back when reassembling.

- Not pictured, but the butt of the gun is stamped S with a diamond (no date) on the left and B on the right.


I think this catches everyone up to where I am with this gun. A few guys have been wanting me to make this thread. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask. I suck at taking pictures so I copied the pictures from the auction to this album (since they disappear on GB after a month or so): Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

[paplinker]

Hello,

I have a prewar kitgun myself that has enough wear that I give it a exercise on occasion.

Is the front sight round or does it have that little notch in it?
Forget the name of it off hand.

 

[Doctor Grape Ape]

Is the front sight round or does it have that little notch in it?
Forget the name of it off hand.

USRA Pocket Revolver sight, and yep it has one. The notch is pretty small ~.020" and it looks like they just blended the angles together. Blade is ~.070" wide.

 

[Hondo44]

Nice acquisition, and great shooter.

The ship date has little to do with when the gun was produced. Has more to do with its location in the safe when a shipping clerk went to retrieve one to ship out, i.e., 1st in safe can be last out. And in the middle of the depression inventory was high while sales were low.

Plus pilot production guns tend to travel around the factory, amongst salesman and management until they decide to let it go to sales.

The B on grip frame indicates it was produced as a blue gun. You can find the B other places preceding the serial in some of the five other locations

S in a diamond indicates it went to the service department before it was sold, usually for a reblue since prototypes get shop worn from being passed around and handled in the plant.

Notice the hump on the target grips at the top of the backstrap has been rounded off. They came like this:

Does it have recessed cyl chambers?

 

[bwdilli]

Mine is missing the hump also. Slightly later serial number, 5315xx. Was that a popular modification? Stocks are tiny as it is.

Looks like it came that way on mine though.

 

[Doctor Grape Ape]

To clarify, I took those off another I-frame (the 1914 .32 I mentioned) that probably shouldn't have been wearing them to begin with, it's closer to what should be there but not 100%, but they're better than the baby Magnas it came with. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I only purchased said .32 because it had those grips and was too good of a deal to let pass, ~$250 IIRC.

 

[Hondo44]

To clarify, I took those off another I-frame (the 1914 .32 I mentioned) that probably shouldn't have been wearing them to begin with, it's closer to what should be there but not 100%, but they're better than the baby Magnas it came with. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I only purchased said .32 because it had those grips and was too good of a deal to let pass, ~$250 IIRC.

Good buy on the 32 w/grips. The grips are correct vintage for a 1914 32 with the gold medallions. Are the grips numbered to the 32, they could be original if the # on the back of the right grip matches the 32 serial #.

Correct vintage targets for the Kit Gun are like above wth flat silver medallions.

 

[Hondo44]

Mine is missing the hump also. Slightly later serial number, 5315xx. Was that a popular modification? Stocks are tiny as it is. Looks like it came that way on mine though.

#5310xx is close to yours and shipped June 14, 1938.

Not a real common modification but seen occasionally. Very well done but not factory.

 

[DCWilson]

Terrific score! Congratulations.

Just to pick a nit, the actual beginning number in the KG production range is usually taken to be about 529500. Three are known in the 529450-529499 range, one or two of which I seem to recall were cataloged as special order .22/32 targets, with the short barrel being the "special" feature. I have one of the three, 529488, a refinished gun that has jumped around among forum members for the last 15-20 years. This one actually letters as a Kit Gun rather than as a special order, so the company was at that time definitely committed to release of a differently configured 22/32 with a new model name. It shipped on May 18, 1936.

I would guess there might have been as many as 10 prototypes/salesman samples produced with serial numbers in the 527xxx range. The one we knew about already might have been a custom commission by a family member, but the fact that we now know two (and with adjacent serial numbers!) makes me think several might have been made up for evaluation and market-testing purposes.

 

[Doctor Grape Ape]

Does it have recessed cyl chambers?

Missed this earlier, but yep! Cylinders are recessed but bored straight through, no little step to create a cylinder throat.

 

[Hondo44]

Cool!

No 22 LR cylinders have chambers with a shoulder because 22s are the last of the old fashioned heeled bullet cartridges; bullet and case are the same diameter. Therefore they must use 'charge holes'; bored all the way thru. In efect, the entire cyl bore is the throat.

 

[Modified]

I've been pondering this gun.

Would there be any reason to maybe put in for a SWHF search on it?

 

[Hondo44]

I had to re-read the entire thread and I noticed in the OP's 1st post he has a link to the letter. And in the letter, Roy states he was enclosing the invoice from the S&WHF and it's right below the letter!

Never heard of that before.