Another computer quandary...

[johngalt]

So Apple held their annual developer conference this week (WWDC), where they announce their plans for cool new hardware and software this year.

No new hardware announcements, but plans for macOS, iOS, etc.

The disappointing news (for me), is the next version of macOS (Mojave), 10.14, is going to abandon a huge number of Macs, basically everything made before 2012, except for possibly old Mac Pros that have upgraded video cards.

That includes my 2011 17" MacBook Pro, the last generation they made. What makes it interesting/annoying is the 2011 pro machines that are being abandoned are far more capable than a lot of non-pro machines that came later, and ARE going to be supported.

I still have plenty of time before it becomes hopelessly out of date, so it isn't an immediate problem. I'm hoping someone straightens out Jony Ive by then, as Apple doesn't currently make anything that interests me.

In the mean time, maybe I should start investigating linux distributions...

 

[raljr1]

1st world problem

Robert

 

[BC38]

May be a 1st world problem but it isn't a trivial one.
Not when you consider what Apple products cost - 3x to 4x what comparable Android/Windows products.
'Course that is why they are doing what they're doing - to drive people to spend a small fortune to buy new products.
That price disparity is also why I don't buy Apple products - that and their stubborn, intentional incompatibility with the rest of the digital world.

 

[johngalt]

May be a 1st world problem but it isn't a trivial one.
Not when you consider what Apple products cost - 3x to 4x what comparable Android/Windows products.
'Course that is why they are doing what they're doing - to drive people to spend a small fortune to buy new products.

What's very interesting is Apple has abandoned all (non-Pro) MacBooks released before mid-2015. Apple provides hardware support for all models 5 years (7 years in California) after it goes out of production, which would be mid 2020 for the newest of them. But yet they are being abandoned after only 3 years. If I had one of those I would not be a happy camper!

This sure looks like an arbitrary decision by Apple to try forcing people to buy new machines.

 

[Onomea]

My kids and wife use Macs. I only use an iPad. Don't want or need a full-up computer anymore. (We all use iPhones.) My view is that Apple products cost a lot up front — too much! — but the superb after care is worth it to me.

Here's what I don't get about the problem: Apple products get a year (?) of after care "free." Call up on the phone with any problem you have and courteous, knowledgeable people help you out promptly. If you buy AppleCare, you get two (or is it three?) years of this after care.

You've got a 2011 Macbook Pro. You aren't getting after care at this point anyway, unless you are paying by the drink for it, I s'pose.

Mojave. Ah. Read your post again. You are unhappy because the next iteration of the Mac OS won't run on your 2011 Mac, right?

But Yosemite or whatever the current latest Mac OS is works fine, right? So why worry? Just use the current latest and greatest OS.

 

[johngalt]

But Yosemite or whatever the current latest Mac OS is works fine, right? So why worry? Just use the current latest and greatest OS.

Right now I'm on Sierra (10.12). I'm not so much concerned about the OS, but the app support. Developers tend to not write software for any OS more than 2 or 3 generations old. With apple's ridiculous yearly release schedule, well that means 2 or 3 years. Even though the more recent OS updates have not been much different beyond a version number change.

Apple's support is still excellent though. I can still go see the genius about problems with my 2011 machine. He will diagnose it, but he won't fix any hardware problems.

 

[Andy Lowry]

I'm typing this on a 2012 Mini that I put Linux Mint on recently. That's the OS I use to keep older hardware in use. It's based on Debian/Ubuntu, so is stable and has plenty of support via updates. I'd like to see a refresh from Apple on the Mini, but I'm guessing it won't be user serviceable if and when it arrives, so this may be my last Apple computer. If I can't replace a hard drive or get to the RAM on a desktop machine, I don't want it.

I don't think Apple really cares all that much about computers anymore, though they keep saying they do. The Air was a great product that kicked off a lot of innovation from the usual Windows machine makers, but it hasn't been updated in... what, six years?

 

[soFlaNative]

'Course that is why they are doing what they're doing - to drive people to spend a small fortune to buy new products.

This sure looks like an arbitrary decision by Apple to try forcing people to buy new machines.

I haven't owned an Apple product since the Mac Plus.
Yet I think of the $3K I could have dropped into Apple stock back then.
Hard to blame the bottom liners even if I don't agree with the strategy.

 

[bigwheelzip]

I'm hoping someone straightens out Jony Ive by then, as Apple doesn't currently make anything that interests me...….

Can't argue too much with success. He's got people shelling out annually for new phones, what a MacBook costs. I'd guess the entire computer manufacturing side of the business is carried by their phone business, and probably destined for the scrap heap soon.

 

[johngalt]

Can't argue too much with success. He's got people shelling out annually for new phones, what a MacBook costs. I'd guess the entire computer manufacturing side of the business is carried by their phone business, and probably destined for the scrap heap soon.

I suspect you may be right, even though Apple says otherwise.

- the macOS development team was disbanded 2 years ago and folded into the iOS team. iOS comes first, macOS just gets the leftover scraps.
- macOS is being dumbed down to match iOS.
- it has been years since the pro hardware has seen any significant updates.

$1000 for an iPhone X? Not me! I do know people who do crave the latest of everything. I guess the marketing works on them.

A bit of a bummer, as I have been using their products for years. Their stuff was more expensive, but I used to feel like it was money well spent. Not so much these days.

 

[StakeOut]

Newly developed software doesn't work well with old hardware and drivers needed to run the new hardware are not compatible with old hardware.

The old hardware will keep on running with the software you're using today.

As long as you don't need to use software that's developed in the future you should be fine until your hardware goes belly up.

Companies first concerns are pleasing the stock holders that equates to selling new and not supporting old.

Old in electronics is something made yesterday.

 

[DesertFox]

recycling

Several years ago, my primary personal MacBook Pro started its slow decline into Hades. Literally getting hotter than Hades. Was running Snow Leopard IIRC. The issue was similar - I had several software packages that wouldn't work on newer OS and I was looking for a way to keep on trucking with my installed packages on a newer OS.

VMWare Fusion to the rescue! I turned my MacBook Pro Snow Leopard install into a VM instance and BAM! Easily running under a new Mac Mini (maxed out of course) running El Capitan! Bonus feature -> also setup a VM for Windows 7 Ultimate which I had an unused license for.

It runs 24/7, mining Bitcoin under the Snow Leopard VM, just like it did when installed on the MacBook Pro. MacBook Pro went to the dump along with 60 metric tonnes of other consumer waste. Well, perhaps a bit less than that...

 

[venomballistics]

it might be worth it to look at the Raspberry Pi circuit board computer and the red hat distro for it.
with how planned obsolescence is an integral part of most of the industrys business strategy, our own strategy wouldn't be that far off base to see what we can flog out of a $30 card computer

 

[johngalt]

it might be worth it to look at the Raspberry Pi circuit board computer and the red hat distro for it.
with how planned obsolescence is an integral part of most of the industrys business strategy, our own strategy wouldn't be that far off base to see what we can flog out of a $30 card computer

That might be interesting to try if my hardware was broken. I have a spare working computer, so I'm thinking of putting Linux on it, probably Mint. I should try to get comfortable with it before it becomes necessary.

In the meantime, I am usually at least 1 OS version behind anyway, as I won't upgrade until it stabilizes. So by the time 10.14 is out, hopefully 10.13 will be ready. It had a rocky start, I'm not convinced that it isn't still half-baked. After that, I'll just keep using it until critical stuff I need no longer works.

Turbo tax is probably the most significant - I have to buy it new every year, and they have been rather obnoxious about only working on the latest or 1 version old OS.

Web browsers are the other. Safari only works on the latest, Chrome and Firefox only the last 3 I think.

 

[johngalt]

...VMWare Fusion to the rescue!

That raises an interesting question. Since the critical requirement appears to be GPUs that support Metal, does that mean it won't run in a VM? That would be a rather severe limitation.

 

[Kiwi cop]

I bought my late 2011 17" MacBook Pro in early 2012. It has now lasted me more than 6 years, which is about 3 times as long as my old PC's used to last me.

It still does what I want it too, I amainly keep app use to iPad and iPhone use, so it probably will not effect me if I no longer update to the newest OS. And as long as it keeps doing so I will be happy.

 

[BC38]

Well, the other side of the coin FWIW, I am typing this on my Dell laptop that is 2007 vintage, and still running Windows XP. I got it used 4 years ago, and just updated the OS to Service Pack 3 last week. And I only did that because I wanted to install a newer (2010) version of the MS-Office Suite (strictly for file compatibility reasons).

So the computer is 11 years old and (for you Mac fans) running Windows XP that means I am running an OS that is FIVE generations old.. Microsoft has released Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 10 since this OS was the latest and greatest.

I'm also using a Galaxy S5 - and just upgraded to that from my S4 because I dropped it and broke the screen around the first of this year. I'm not some kind of Luddite either. I've got a BS in Computer Engineering and I'm a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE).

So yeah, you could definitely say I'm in the "if it ain't broke why even TRY to fix it" camp - as opposed to the "gotta' have the latest thing at ANY cost" camp.

 

[venomballistics]

That might be interesting to try if my hardware was broken. I have a spare working computer, so I'm thinking of putting Linux on it, probably Mint. I should try to get comfortable with it before it becomes necessary.

In the meantime, I am usually at least 1 OS version behind anyway, as I won't upgrade until it stabilizes. So by the time 10.14 is out, hopefully 10.13 will be ready. It had a rocky start, I'm not convinced that it isn't still half-baked. After that, I'll just keep using it until critical stuff I need no longer works.

Turbo tax is probably the most significant - I have to buy it new every year, and they have been rather obnoxious about only working on the latest or 1 version old OS.

Web browsers are the other. Safari only works on the latest, Chrome and Firefox only the last 3 I think.

that's the thing ... we already have hardware to torture some years out of under a nix.
I have a raspi that I keep thinking about making into a compact RC computing solution for in field setup editing in open TX as well as some flavor of vid storage and playback.
In the past, Ive web surfed with it, cannot recall if i posted to this forum with it or not, but I see no reason I couldn't
I suppose it might be a good solution for those who are a little afraid of flushing windows on a second machine and diving into the unknown.
For we, the initiated, it may be less appropriate.
Tell you what though ... I find myself thinking about these minimalist things a quite a bit more often as time goes on.

 

[TX-Dennis]

I have a similar quandary. My current computer was a high end machine in 2011, but it's getting a bit long in the tooth now. It's an HP now running Windows 10 on an i7 2600K. I've replaced the graphics card and the power supply. I try to replace my hard drives about every 3-4 years even if they are still good as a preventative measure. The one in the machine now is a bit over 3 years old, and I'm trying to decide whether to replace the hard drive again or to replace the entire machine. It's a tough call since the comp still does everything I want it to. I know that it probably won't make another 3-4 years, though, without major parts replacement. I'm comfortable replacing any part on a PC, but there comes a time when it's better to move to a new machine. I just have to decide if it's that time now.

I don't know anything about Mac. I haven't used an Apple product since the late 70s.

 

[Onomea]

... I've got a BS in Computer Engineering and I'm a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE)...

I think this is key to your satisfaction with PCs, Microsoft, and older equipment!

I have none of that understanding, and no interest in investing the time to learn it. I just want something that I turn on and it works. And if I can't understand how to do something, or have an issue, I like a number I can call and a polite and knowledgeable person to help me. And I am willing to pay a premium for that.

So, for me, Apple and its high prices are a reasonable trade off.