Another LEOSA qualification…

[wileyjackhammer]

The course of fire described by WileyJackhammer is the state course I described earlier.

I CHOOSE to use at least 2 different formats (revolver and at least a striker fired auto) to show to myself and anyone who needs to look at the card that I can. Far too many active officers and prosecutors/government civil attorneys do not know enough and I want to make sure my credentials protect me from that ignorance.

I do the same thing..... but with a S&W revolver and a 1911 or a S&W Shield in ,45 acp.....next week it will be with a model 25-2 and a Detonics Scoremaster.
I use a different gun most every time....
I read it that you need to qual with both a revolver & an auto.
Shamefully. I have also qualified with a Glock 23 in case I went to the East Coast, to visit family. There you may never see the gun again if forced to use it. Glocks are easily replaced...
I always had to fly into New Jersey and drive to Long Island. Later I learned to fly into North or South Carolina...where declaring a gun at the airport counter didn't set off alarms and traveling up the coast was mostly fun....
I flew out of Eastern Washington at the time, before Wash fell behind the IRON CURTAIN....

 

[S-W4EVER]

They didn't know you, so it made them uncomfortable…

I live in Eastern Washington, moved here in 1990. Our violent crime rate is really low. When I first moved here it was not unusual for armed Citizens to stop to back me up if I was away from town. Things (people) have changed…

 

[ultra45]

Reading this thread reaffirms the decision I made to not bother with LEOSA but just do CCL.

Whatever works for you. It's easier for me being in PA and traveling into NY and NJ, ot to mention the rest of the east coast. I also fly throughout the country. For me, it's worth the annual qualification.

 

[Recargador]

Reading this thread reaffirms the decision I made to not bother with LEOSA but just do CCL.

I'm in your neighboring state Arizona. I'm a retired Federal agent and conduct LEOSA qualifications and conduct AZ CCW classes.
My agency's Academy is in Artesia. For a long time all federal agents who retired in NM were stuck with the CCL because Federal agencies can't qualify their retirees. The state recently started to allow qualified persons to run LEOSA qualifications for retired feds.
I recommend getting LEOSA. It allows you to carry in all 57 states....

 

[Mark@NH]

I'm in your neighboring state Arizona. I'm a retired Federal agent and conduct LEOSA qualifications and conduct AZ CCW classes.
My agency's Academy is in Artesia. For a long time all federal agents who retired in NM were stuck with the CCL because Federal agencies can't qualify their retirees. The state recently started to allow qualified persons to run LEOSA qualifications for retired feds.
I recommend getting LEOSA. It allows you to carry in all 57 states....

I assume you were including territories with the states. I checked about carrying in Puerto Rico and they permit it. I am curious what other territories you may have checked?

 

[NW Montana]

Hola, Amigo. Class #114 here. Great Obama quote...

I'm in your neighboring state Arizona. I'm a retired Federal agent and conduct LEOSA qualifications and conduct AZ CCW classes.
My agency's Academy is in Artesia. For a long time all federal agents who retired in NM were stuck with the CCL because Federal agencies can't qualify their retirees. The state recently started to allow qualified persons to run LEOSA qualifications for retired feds.
I recommend getting LEOSA. It allows you to carry in all 57 states.

 

[ultra45]

I assume you were including territories with the states. I checked about carrying in Puerto Rico and they permit it. I am curious what other territories you may have checked?

Technically you can fly to GUAM with yur heater in your checked luggage, deplane grab yur luggage, remove and conceal carry your heater. Possessions and territories fall under the LEOSA.

 

[biku324]

I'm in your neighboring state Arizona. I'm a retired Federal agent and conduct LEOSA qualifications and conduct AZ CCW classes.
My agency's Academy is in Artesia. For a long time all federal agents who retired in NM were stuck with the CCL because Federal agencies can't qualify their retirees. The state recently started to allow qualified persons to run LEOSA qualifications for retired feds.
I recommend getting LEOSA. It allows you to carry in all 57 states....

So, in the '90s someone in DC finally snapped to the fact that Border Patrol agents were spending their pocket money for utterly desperate illegal border-crossers they arrested. Water, sometimes some tortillas, a blanket or two, and so on - the BP agents were both professionals and human beings.

DC decided it was a shocking emergency (it hadn't been for a hundred years) and immediately developed a program so each USBP vehicle had snacks, bottled water, disposable diapers, formula, feminine hygiene gear, and other stuff. Agents had to document that they offered the stuff to detainees - the cop shorthand from the agents was to refer to the items as 'Janet Reno Snack Packs.' Kind of like 57 states....

 

[Recargador]

Reading this thread reaffirms the decision I made to not bother with LEOSA but just do CCL.

I'm in your neighboring state Arizona. I'm a retired Federal agent and conduct LEOSA qualifications and conduct AZ CCW classes.
My agency's Academy is in Artesia. For a long time all federal agents who retired in NM were stuck with the CCL because Federal agencies can't qualify their retirees. The state recently started to allow qualified persons to run LEOSA qualifications for retired feds.
I recommend getting LEOSA. It allows you to carry in all 57 states

So, in the '90s someone in DC finally snapped to the fact that Border Patrol agents were spending their pocket money for utterly desperate illegal border-crossers they arrested. Water, sometimes some tortillas, a blanket or two, and so on - the BP agents were both professionals and human beings.

DC decided it was a shocking emergency (it hadn't been for a hundred years) and immediately developed a program so each USBP vehicle had snacks, bottled water, disposable diapers, formula, feminine hygiene gear, and other stuff. Agents had to document that they offered the stuff to detainees - the cop shorthand from the agents was to refer to the items as 'Janet Reno Snack Packs.' Kind of like 57 states....

I remember those!

 

[Recargador]

Hola, Amigo. Class #114 here. Great Obama quote...

I assume you were including territories with the states. I checked about carrying in Puerto Rico and they permit it. I am curious what other territories you may have checked?

The 57 states quip was in reference to Obama.

 

[Mark@NH]

The 57 states quip was in reference to Obama.

Thanks, I have fortunately forgotten about him and was wondering about the "7 " since we have 14 territories.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

I have the Virginia CC permit good for five years and no cost as a retired LEO. But I absolutely shoot my yearly LEOSA qualifications. Revolver 340 PD and bottom feeder G-42. The qualification card have make, model and caliber on them. Since I live near DC and close to MD both are 2A unfriendly so a state permit is useless. That's what the HR 218 is all about.

The other factor is I tour by motorcycle all over the country. Both weapons are legal everywhere. Due to light weight and reliability I mostly carry the J frame with hot hardcast wadcutters. Even legal in New Jersey where I spend four weeks a year at the beach.

Not taking advantage of LEOSA because of various state restrictions I find absurd. A five shot revolver without hollow points is good everywhere. It even spells retired cop to anyone that knows anything.

Now if someone can't qualify with a little gun, that is another story.

 

[John_M52]

I have the Virginia CC permit good for five years and no cost as a retired LEO. But I absolutely shoot my yearly LEOSA qualifications. Revolver 340 PD and bottom feeder G-42. The qualification card have make, model and caliber on them. Since I live near DC and close to MD both are 2A unfriendly so a state permit is useless. That's what the HR 218 is all about.

The other factor is I tour by motorcycle all over the country. Both weapons are legal everywhere. Due to light weight and reliability I mostly carry the J frame with hot hardcast wadcutters. Even legal in New Jersey where I spend four weeks a year at the beach.

Not taking advantage of LEOSA because of various state restrictions I find absurd. A five shot revolver without hollow points is good everywhere. It even spells retired cop to anyone that knows anything.

Now if someone can't qualify with a little gun, that is another story.

I'm hoping they pass the new version of the bill which clears up a few "issues" like magazine capacity and ammo type for states like MD and NJ.

 

[John_M52]

Not to beat a dead horse, but since I qual'd today I'll say it has always been my impression that LEOSA does not limit you to the firearm you qual'd with. If you are on duty and get involved in a shooting it's a whole 'nuther can of worms. We can qual with a primary and a backup annually. If I asked the chief if I can qual with a dozen or so handguns because of LEOSA he'd roll his eyes... I've shot a qual with everything from a browning hi-power to a seecamp to a Glock 22. I only carry one of those on duty.

 

[Mark@NH]

Not to beat a dead horse, but since I qual'd today I'll say it has always been my impression that LEOSA does not limit you to the firearm you qual'd with. If you are on duty and get involved in a shooting it's a whole 'nuther can of worms. We can qual with a primary and a backup annually. If I asked the chief if I can qual with a dozen or so handguns because of LEOSA he'd roll his eyes... I've shot a qual with everything from a browning hi-power to a seecamp to a Glock 22. I only carry one of those on duty.

In NH, Police Standards and Training interpret the type of firearm as either auto pistol or revolver and you are only qualified to carry the type you qual with. They also require two consecutive passing scores. The qual must be administered by an approved active duty police firearms instructor. In recent years because there have been so many retired LEO's needing to qualify they have only allowed one firearm.

 

[prairieviper]

Here in cornfields and cows country, our qualification course has varied considerably over the years. It is always the same as for active-duty officers which is always the basic LE firearms qualification course given at the academy. I've seen it be difficult and I have seen it be easy. I guess it must depend on how many recruits at the academy are failing the firearms qualification from year to year.

I shoot very well, like seeing the guys I worked with but having to qualify yearly, shoot both a semi-auto and revolver if I want to carry both types, is somewhat of a hassle. I've considered just getting our state permit. I don't travel, the state permit is good for five years and there is no distinction between a revolver and semi-auto in that once you qualify with the state, you can carry whatever handgun you please. There would be a cost to the state permit whereas the LEOSA is free for me.

 

[John_M52]

In NH, Police Standards and Training interpret the type of firearm as either auto pistol or revolver and you are only qualified to carry the type you qual with. They also require two consecutive passing scores. The qual must be administered by an approved active duty police firearms instructor. In recent years because there have been so many retired LEO's needing to qualify they have only allowed one firearm.

While I don't consider the 3-25 yard 50 round qual even slightly challenging, others do. Our 2nd in command failed yesterday. I wonder how many attempts it would take him to qual twice in a row! Haha. I've worked with a lot of these guys to get them on paper so they don't fail the academy. I honestly don't know how you can shoot an 8" group at 3 yards.

 

[prairieviper]

While I don't consider the 3-25 yard 50 round qual even slightly challenging, others do.

Nor do I but the reality is that most retirees are not really going to carry a full size 1911, 4-inch revolver or Glock 17 that they have to use on a demanding course to qualify. Most retirees here in cornfields and cows country are carrying micro nines or snubbies. I believe that you should be able to use and qualify with your normal carry gun or what's the point?

I show up with extra pistols that I know I can shoot just so that I don't get surprised by the current year's fad qualification course.

 

[ispcapt]

In NH, Police Standards and Training interpret the type of firearm as either auto pistol or revolver and you are only qualified to carry the type you qual with. They also require two consecutive passing scores. The qual must be administered by an approved active duty police firearms instructor. In recent years because there have been so many retired LEO's needing to qualify they have only allowed one firearm.

Right after LEOSA was signed in 2004 I was placed on a state committee to get a program running. My actual assignment was to make sure my department didn't get volunteered by other agencies to run the statewide program. By November the state legislature had passed authorization for the IL Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board to administer it and I was no longer part of it.
During my time we fielded a lot of questions from other states on what we were doing. I cannot recall the state, one of the eastern states, was looking to define type of firearm by it's operation. A 1911 being SA only was 1 type. A Glock was a different type. A TDA being DA/SA was a different type. A H&K P7 a different type. A S&W revolver and a Colt revolver were 2 different types since the cylinders rotated in opposite directions. They were going to mandate that each type required a separate qualification shoot. I commented they were sure reading a lot into something that wasn't there and were creating a lot of work for themselves. Every other state we'd talked to just defined type as either pistol or revolver, and some not even that much. They were quite honest about their intent. They didn't want to make it easy. I have no idea if they went thru with there 101 different type firearms.

I'm hoping they pass the new version of the bill which clears up a few "issues" like magazine capacity and ammo type for states like MD and NJ.

The ammo type was addressed in the last revision. 18 USC 926C(e)(1)(B). It only restricts ammo that is prohibited by the National Firearms Act. HP and SP ammo is permitted by LEOSA.

 

[John_M52]

Right after LEOSA was signed in 2004 I was placed on a state committee to get a program running. My actual assignment was to make sure my department didn't get volunteered by other agencies to run the statewide program. By November the state legislature had passed authorization for the IL Law Enforcement Training and Standards Board to administer it and I was no longer part of it.
During my time we fielded a lot of questions from other states on what we were doing. I cannot recall the state, one of the eastern states, was looking to define type of firearm by it's operation. A 1911 being SA only was 1 type. A Glock was a different type. A TDA being DA/SA was a different type. A H&K P7 a different type. A S&W revolver and a Colt revolver were 2 different types since the cylinders rotated in opposite directions. They were going to mandate that each type required a separate qualification shoot. I commented they were sure reading a lot into something that wasn't there and were creating a lot of work for themselves. Every other state we'd talked to just defined type as either pistol or revolver, and some not even that much. They were quite honest about their intent. They didn't want to make it easy. I have no idea if they went thru with there 101 different type firearms.



The ammo type was addressed in the last revision. 18 USC 926C(e)(1)(B). It only restricts ammo that is prohibited by the National Firearms Act. HP and SP ammo is permitted by LEOSA.

Shocked to hear that IL was finding ways to make things more difficult.

 

[Reloader Fred]

While I don't consider the 3-25 yard 50 round qual even slightly challenging, others do. Our 2nd in command failed yesterday. I wonder how many attempts it would take him to qual twice in a row! Haha. I've worked with a lot of these guys to get them on paper so they don't fail the academy. I honestly don't know how you can shoot an 8" group at 3 yards.

They shoot 8" groups at 3 yards because they're looking at the target, rather than the sights, which is the same reason they can't shoot well at all the other distances. The human brain has to be trained to do that, as good shooters well know. As we get older we tend to forget things, and that's one of those things....

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[John_M52]

They shoot 8" groups at 3 yards because they're looking at the target, rather than the sights, which is the same reason they can't shoot well at all the other distances. The human brain has to be trained to do that, as good shooters well know. As we get older we tend to forget things, and that's one of those things....

Hope this helps.

Fred

front sight focus....

 

[Doug M.]

Instead of their polyps? Fat chance.

 

[ispcapt]

Shocked to hear that IL was finding ways to make things more difficult.

Don't believe all the internet rumors. They're often perpetuated and spread by those who couldn't find IL on a map.
IL was the first state to have a statewide program set up. It's purpose is to enable those whose depts wouldn't qualify them or someone from out of state moves to IL and needs a place to qualify. It's simple. Contact IROCC and they will set you up with a location close to you where you can qualify. That location does your shoot, sends the paper work to IROCC and IROCC sends you a card.
You don't have to use IROCC in IL. It was set up to make it easy for those needing a place to get qualified.