Another Model 41 question

[AveragEd]

I purchased a new seven-inch Model 41 from the current production run on Thursday and shot it today. I may have overthought my choice of ammunition a bit.

I only fired 10 rounds each of two different brands of quality pistol match ammo because 16 of those empty cases failed to eject - they hung up in the ejection port along with the new round being chambered. I assumed that a target pistol would function best with ammunition intended for that type of firearm but the problem suggests that I either use match ammo intended for rifles like the Lapua Center-X that I use in my rimfire precision rifle or change the recoil spring to a slightly softer one.

I'm hoping the members of this Forum with Model 41 experience can offer some suggestions. I did clean and oil it prior to shooting it and do believe it needs breaking in because on the four occasions it did eject the empty the slide failed to completely return to battery - I had to nudge it about 1/8" forward.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Ed

 

[moosedog]

I only use standard velocity ammo in mine and even then, some brands just are not 100% reliable.
I would put a few hundred rounds thru it and see if it's maybe just a break in situation. I would also number the magazines to eliminate a bad mag. I've found CCI standard velocity to be the best for my gun. Good luck.

 

[Dave.357]

I also use CCI standard velocity , it works
In both of my 41's one 1993 other 1965.
A friend bought a new one and had trouble
like you , he shot a brick of high velocity
Winchester though it and it works fine
With standard velocity now.

 

[series guy]

My Model 41 would do the same thing rather randomly. It would be fine for weeks and then act just as you described. I took my CCI standard velocity and dumped it into a small plastic container. Every 100 rounds I would spritz a little Ballistol on the ammo. The container holds 300 rounds. Gave the container a few shakes and good to go. I have not had one failure to feed or eject since doing this. As a bonus after loading up a few mags I use the Ballistol residue on my fingers to wipe down my mags. Now they drop free much quicker.

 

[ggibson511960]

Eley Pistol Match

My 41 only acts up with match ammo, most notably Eley. It does give me an early warning by failing to go back into battery by 1/8 in. When this happens it's time to swab out the dirty burning, low pressure match ammo residue and all is well. They have tight chambers for blowback semi-automatics, a reasonable tradeoff for gilt edged accuracy vs. lifesaving reliability.

 

[Jim Watson]

My M41 can be TOO clean. I oil the top round of the first few magazines after scrubbing the chamber. After that, it has enough bullet lube and soot to lubricate for easy extraction.

on the four occasions it did eject the empty the slide failed to completely return to battery - I had to nudge it about 1/8" forward.

That might be the extractor rubbing in its slot in the barrel or camming up against the front of the cut.

 

[Sevens]

I'm not sure how much evidence needs to pile up before it becomes generally known that new production S&W Model 41 pistols are not quality items and are priced about 2x what they're worth.

 

[Drm50]

A few bad apples don't ruin the whole barrel. I read all the m41 posts on several forums for educational purposes. The unsatisfied, and rightly so S&W m41 customers make a lot of noise. Much more than those who have no major complaints. Same thing goes for other models. Problems as I see it are in both work force and management. They are losing the old guys that had pride in their work. Management is allowing substandard product out of house.
We are in the middle of a race to the bottom. It's not just S&W. People are already crying about the quality of the new Colt revolvers vs price. Face it all the Trademarks are owned by big Corporations that have people at the top that see no difference in guns or toasters, only bottom line.

 

[Gamecock]

Similar to Jim Watson above, I lube my cartridges. Drop of oil on my fingers, roll the cartridges in it before loading mag. Gives me 100% reliability.

Because of reduced chamber adhesion by lubed cases, I use only low powered ammo, chiefly Federal Gold Medal Target 711B.

 

[AveragEd]

I use a lot of Lapua Center-X in my rimfire precision rifle so two of the pistol match ammos I have are Lapua OSP and Pistol Match; I tried the OSP as well as SK Pistol last weekend. Both brands carry the same cartridge head stamp and both have a oily coating (which leads me to believe both are loaded by the same company). Given that coating, I have to doubt that cases needing lubed is the problem. Very good thought, though.

I called S&W yesterday and the gentleman with whom I spoke told me they use CCI SV exclusively in their test-firing of all 22LR semiautos. I have several thousand rounds of that so I'll try a few hundred rounds of it this weekend.

I had the same thought as Dave.357 - maybe it needs a "wake-up call" with high-velocity fodder. Perhaps a hundred CCI MiniMags would do the trick...

Ed

 

[jim1K]

I too have a new one and after two barrels that were bad I had it lined at Ten Ring Precision. now it shoots good but did not function, I changed the spring to a 7 lb. Wolff and it run well now. The other way to go is send it back to the shoemakers at S&W and they will keep it for 4-6months and more than likely it will come back with the same problem. A better choice is to send it to a reliable pistol smith that can fix it right the first time.... Jim

 

[chief38]

First off the M41 is one of the most finicky Target Grade Semi Auto pistols available - it just is. The current run of magazines are mostly garbage. As others have stated, the one round that seems to work best in the vast majority of M41's is the CCI Standard Velocity - that's been my own experience as well. I know some shooters have given up on standard velocity ammo and opted to use High Velocity as it seems to improve reliability - however some slight accuracy and longevity loss will of course occur.

Here are a few suggestion. Use the CCI std. vel. and see how they work. You can also play with different value recoil springs - they are available in many weights and sometimes that helps. The one thing I ALWAYS suggest is to replace the Extractor with a Volquartsen version. They are about $14 bucks or so and usually eliminate any ejection issues. It is a much better part than the Factory one.

As a LAST RESORT you can send it back to the Factory and cross your fingers.

I am one of the very lucky M41 owners as my M41 probably has not had a malfunction in 20 years (other than a bad round of course). In general, the older ones seem to behave better, but the newer ones seem to be either great or terrible - not much in between. The good news is that once you tweak it and figure it out, it is a very accurate pistol with a descent trigger - don't give up yet.

Last suggestion..... If you try everything and still have an unreliable or problematic M41, get rid of it and get yourself a used vintage High Standard 22 target pistol. There are a few different variations, but the vintage models seem almost bullet proof! They are very reliable, accurate, have a fantastic trigger and about the only two negatives are the magazine release being on the bottom of the butt and the slide release being on the "wrong" side of the gun for right handed shooters. Oh - and like the M41, if you get a vintage model you pretty much must buy vintage spare mag's. their new ones are no better than Smiths!

Good luck - I hope some of the suggestions help out!

 

[AveragEd]

I had a High Standard Supermatic Trophy with the five-inch heavy barrel. I bought it for $150 from a friend who shot maybe 50 rounds through it and figured he wouldn't be interested in bullseye competition back in 1974-ish. It shot great for me and I never bought any "good" ammo for it so it probably could have done better.

About 20 years later, I was watching an indoor bullseye shoot at my club and during a break, started talking with an older shooter. When I told him I had that gun, he offered me $450 for it sight unseen. That should have told me it was worth keeping but you already know the rest.

I know this Model 41 will come around. It might take some massaging from a good gunsmith but that's okay with me as I've always wanted one but couldn't bring myself to spend that much for "a 22." For now, I'll try different kinds of ammo as I have well over a dozen of various velocity ratings on hand from which to choose. It is a beautiful handgun and I'm on the hunt for some stocks in fancy walnut for it. Any suggestions?

I thank all of you for your input and encourage more.

Ed

Forgot to ask - what is the standard recoil spring tension? If breaking it in doesn't help, the person at S&W suggested an aftermarket recoil spring but I neglected to ask what weight he would recommend.

 

[Hair Trigger]

This is a rather timely thread; I took my new-to-me M41 to the range today for the first time since I bought it last week. Mine is a 1985 vintage. I grabbed a box of some Winchester Super-X .22LR, not sure how long I've had that ammo. I fired 60 rounds, and out of that I had three failures to feed, one of which was a mal-formed bullet. I had one stovepipe , and three times it failed to chamber a round after extracting and ejecting a fired round. The gun was clean, the ammo was clean. I do not know how much use the pistol had before I got it, but I got the box, tools and paperwork with it, and the pistol looks brand new.

When it functions well it is a tack driver, more accurate that I can shoot. The trigger is like a nice DA revolver fired single action. I'm hoping the more I shoot it, the better the function will get.

Something I found, while policing my brass; I picked up a couple of CCI cases someone else had shot, and when compared to my Super-X cases, the CCI are a couple of millimeters longer than the Winchester. Is that usual, or is my older ammo shorter than current .22 cases? Would the shorter cases have anything to do with function?

 

[625smith]

AveragEd My advice would be to try different types of .22 ammo until you find one that your 41 likes. Stay with in the 1070 fps to 1200 fps range. I have a 1963 41 that only likes Remington Target. Also don't change any parts until you sort out what ammo your 41 likes.

Hair Trigger The CCI cases you found are "Stingers" they are longer than a long rifle case.

 

[jim1K]

The factory spring is 7.5 lb. it would not work with CCI sv. a 7lb. Wolff does and cycles flawlessly.... Jim

 

[AveragEd]

Thanks Jim - I have a Wolff spring kit for the gun on order.

Stingers can be problematic in certain 22LR firearms. For example, Remington 541S rifles had shorter throats; I was unable to extract unfired rounds from mine without using a cleaning rod because the bullet would be slightly contacting the rifling and the extractors would slip off the case rim. Unfired standard-length rounds extracted easily.

Ed

 

[Endall]

Hard to figure out

I purchased a new 7" M41 in 2021. Runs fine. Used all kinds of ammo. Had some old Federal that had a few Fail to Fire. Fifteen years in the attic may have contributed.
I really think the preference for older guns runs in every gun. Some I feel are about the same, others the newer production benefits from CNC manufacture.
My gun gets complimented regularly. Usually see the lower cost guns where I shoot. Hearing good things about Taurus, Glock, and of course Roger and Buckmark
Usually shoot CCI SV in Target pistols. Like the Norma and all the cheap HV.
One tip,make a chamber brush. Use it regularly. 25 caliber brass with a 90 one inch from end. Helps scrub the tight chamber.
Also I never stick a cleaning rod down the barrel. I lol up a patch, soak in No 9, and push through with bamboo skewer.

 

[sceva]

Something I found, while policing my brass; I picked up a couple of CCI cases someone else had shot, and when compared to my Super-X cases, the CCI are a couple of millimeters longer than the Winchester. Is that usual, or is my older ammo shorter than current .22 cases? Would the shorter cases have anything to do with function?

Those look like stinger cases; are they nickel plated? CCI Stingers, use a longer case (.700 vs .600) with a shorter lighter bullet so they have the same loaded overall length as .22 LR

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Trial and error (and patience) will prevail (eventually).

 

[Troystat]

If you want to have work done on it don't send it back to S&W, there are several good gunsmiths mentioned on the bulleye.net forum that do wonders for model 41's. If yours is still acting up after a 1000 rounds there could be several things going on. You might try polishing the chamber, if that does not work I would send it to somebody like KC custom, Clark or one of the others mentioned on the bulleye forum. It is frustrating that a pistol that costs over a 1000 dollars out the door does not run perfectly but one of those gun smiths mentioned will work wonders on yours.

 

[Gamecock]

You might try polishing the chamber

That may be exactly what my pistol needs.

Anyone know a way to do that at home?

 

[larryofcc]

I have a M41 from 1968. It is the heavy bbl. with the EFS. I cannot say how it runs, as it has always been a safe queen, and remains unfired to this day. Yeah, at my age, I am mostly a collector. Best shooting 22 pistol I ever had was a High Standard Victor and in my earlier days, I had several M41's. Don't remember any failures and sometimes I shot the cheapest stuff I could find. 69 cents at the big box store. Big Larry

 

[Troystat]

For polishing the chamber you can take a slotted cleaning tip on a rod and put some 800 grit emery paper on it and spin it in the chamber. Do not over do it. You could also get a chamber reamer and clean the chamber that way. Sometimes you can just use a brass chamber brush and just scrub the **** out of the chamber. You do not want to change the shape of the chamber.

 

[AveragEd]

I haven't had time to change the recoil spring yet but did get out to sight in a new red dot sight I bought for my old Model 22A-1 Talo Edition my wife will shoot - she struggles with open sights. That "cheap" pistol shoots great with perfect functioning and accuracy - dime-size 10-shot 25-yard groups from a rest at 25 yards - with SK Pistol Match, Lapua OSP and CCI SV ammo.

By the way, that sight is a Bushnell RSX-100 I bought from Midway for $99.99 on sale from $149.99 with free shipping and I recommend it highly. I just checked and it's still on sale.

I did try a 10-round magazine of CCI SV in the Model 41. That's the ammo with which S&W told me it test-fires all its 22LRs but my experience resulted in 10 failures to eject. Given the disruption with the malfunctions, the group wasn't hateful but with the rear sight all the way down, the POI is all but four inches high. That's another problem I'll have to address, I guess. I hope to have time one evening this week to give it a good cleaning and lubricating while changing the spring from the factory 7.5# to the 7# Wolff. It sucks when work interferes with pleasure!

The seven year-old granddaughter's softball games are excusable distractions though...

Ed

 

[gwpercle]

New target guns are tight and usually require breaking in .
A model 41 should have at least 500 rounds put through it .
My method is shoot 100 rounds ... clean and lube , then do this 4 more times ...at first 50 rounds may be all you want to shoot ...then clean & lube .
These pistols have tight tolerances and little hand finishing work is done today ... so break it in before you panic .

If you are still having trouble I can highly reccomend Clark Custom Guns in Louisiana , they specialize in model 41 work and did a most excellent target trigger job and reliability package on my 41 ... they even tune the magazines !
Gary

 

[teletech]

That may be exactly what my pistol needs.

Anyone know a way to do that at home?

Fired brass actually makes a good lap. get some 800,1000,2000 abrasive powder or paste and drill/tap one empty case for each grit. For paste just wipe the brass in the paste and use, for powder you mix a tiny bit of powder and oil (I tend to use tapping fluid). Put it in the chamber and turn 50-100 turns by hand. Clean out the chamber and bore thoroughly between grits and don't re-use laps since the abrasive embeds in the brass.
I recall using a #10 screw size as my handle, but I might be forgetting.
If your chamber is really bad you can start at #400. Work up to whatever grit you have patience for. In my case I found #400 helped things somewhat, and #800 was almost a full cure, past that it does get better still but it's diminishing returns.