Another State Department DSS model 19-5 snubby

[pogo2]

About a month ago member Allen-frame posted photos of a model 19-5 snubby with an unusual black matte factory finish that he just acquired.

Forum posting by Allen-frame

The discussion said that the gun was a special order from S&W by the US State Department, as the issue sidearm for the Diplomatic Security Service (DSS), the department providing embassy and diplomat security. The deparment carried the model 19 snubby from 1980 to 1996, when they switched to the Sig P228. The State Deparment specified a black matte finish on the gun, different than the standard blue finish.

I just acquired one of these black matte 19-5s myself, from a collection being disposed of. It appears to be in unfired condition and the finish resembles the black matte S&W puts on the model 442 and several other guns. It appears to be more durable than blueing. Here are some photos, including a shot of the gun next to a conventional blue 19-5 I own, showing the contrasting finish. (The gun came in the box with rubber Pachmeyer grips - I added the Ahrends wood when I got it.)

 

[j38]

Neat gun! I like that finish. Thanks for posting.

Jerry

 

[deanodog]

Nice pair of snubs. Thanks for sharing. 2 1/2s are among my favorites.

 

[akviper]

Nice find. I really liked the dull finish on a carry gun. I wish I could find one of these.

 

[Allen-frame]

Dude ,,there you go ,nice gun.

Serial prefix AYY?

Is the roll stamping on the barrel a little different ,? maybe these were from two different runs.


Regards ,,,,Al

 

[Mickey D]

Great looking guns! Allan, you really are getting the bug for fine firearms!

 

[pogo2]

Allen-frame:

In answer to your questions, the 19-5 has serial number AND4992, and the "Smith & Wesson" marking on the barrel does look like a slightly different font than my blue 19-5 or your gun's. Perhaps S&W had several sets of tooling for making that mark, and they were slightly different.

I paid $445 for the gun. The dealer had marked it down a bit from the original price of $550 because potential buyers wanted the traditional blue gun and were put off by the black matte finish. I knew from your posting that the gun was the DSS special run with factory matte finish and not some aftermarket refinish of a blued gun. I'd like to think it may be worth a little more than a blue gun because of the unique story connected to it. And it is clearly unfired, judging by the barrel, forcing cone and front of the cylinder, so it must have been a spare in the State Department inventory. I won't fire it myself. I may get a S&W letter on the gun to firmly establish that story.

 

[RWJ]

Pogo2,

Drop me an e-mail if you can tonight (e-mail in profile)

 

[Butler]

I have fired several of these, they are what changed me over to a revolver guy. I was issued a 4 inch barrel in Sri Lanka but my RSO had the 2 and a half. In Alexandria Egypt I didn't have an RSO and I had both. I don't remember the dash #. When I left I really hated leaving them behind.

 

[Texas Star]

Originally posted by Butler:
I have fired several of these, they are what changed me over to a revolver guy. I was issued a 4 inch barrel in Sri Lanka but my RSO had the 2 and a half. In Alexandria Egypt I didn't have an RSO and I had both. I don't remember the dash #. When I left I really hated leaving them behind.

What is an RSO?

T-Star

 

[Butler]

Hi Texas Star,

RSO is a Regional Security Officer (DSS) Diplomatic Security Service (State Department) assigned to large embassies. Smaller posts like consul generals and consulates just had Marines.

 

[18DAI]

I've got one similar to those.

Mine is a 19-7, 4" round butt, that I am told was a State Department gun. Good looking in the black semi matt finish. Regards 18DAI.

 

[Butler]

Hi Klas,

No I was a Detachment Commander (Gunny), I did 2 posts Columbo, Sri Lanka and Alexandria, Egypt.

Butler

 

[Texas Star]

Does anyone know why they specified the flat black finish?

Every time I handle my Beretta M-92FS, I think, Gee, they sure could have made this a prettier gun...I understand why Vctory Models were rough-finished, as there was a major war on. But not when these DSS guns were made.

T-Star

 

[Butler]

T-Star,

Not sure but with the 4 inchers I remember a mix, some where flat, some were almost regular S&W blue and some seemed real close to the same as a M28. The USMC made a huge order in late 86 or early 87 of 1000 plus. I wish I remembered my serial #. I wonder what happen to all those guns. As I remember none was officially marked. I retired in 95 and last time I checked all the posts have now switched to normal USMC issue M16, M9, etc...

Butler

 

[Butler]

Klas,

Good for him, there was a pretty big rift between the normal state department types and the Marines, however we got along good with the DSS agents. A lot of strange things happen out on post.

 

[Butler]

18DAI,

I bet that is one, sounds exactly as I remember. I think mine was a dash 7 also. What kind of shape was it in? I bet some that were not issued were 100%

 

[grtoppcop]

Those 2-1/2" Model 19-4s were given to the RSOs or PSOs (Post Security Officers). Occasionally, we (MSGs) would carry them if we carried concealed.

The finish is correct. The Marines carried the four-inch Model 19-4s that were blued. The 2-1/2-inch guns were finished like the Highway Patrolman guns.

I remember during the prep for SecState Christopher's visit to Beijing in '94, the RSO had several of them in his "stash" for visiting MSGs and DSS Agents.

If memory serves, the DOS made them available to retiring MSGs and DSS agents when the DOS shifted to the Sig P228 and the MSGs to the Beretta M92.

The AYY-#### is your confirmation that you have an actual DOS-contract S&W. I had a chance to buy a four-incher, but couldn't take the $800 price tag. It's a shame, I would have liked to have it for a memento of my service in Beijing and Stockholm.

BTW: The DOS-contract Model 19-4s were ALL Round-Butt, Black Sight (no insert) guns. We carried 125gr +P NYCLAD hollow-points on duty. Great round!

 

[IBSandy]

Hi All

Very beautiful 19-5. There was a run made for the Connecticut State Police in the matte finish as well.

Enjoy your new find.

Regards,
Sandy Jacobs
SWCA 1509

 

[Lenshappy]

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