Anti-Freeze Question

[Texas Star]

I had Sear's change my 1997 Toyota's anti-freeze this past Saturday.

Since, when I've had to sit with the heater on and linger in one place with the engine running for some time (maybe 20 minutes), I've noticed some liquid on the parking lot pavement under where I was parked. May or may not be from my car. But I've seen it twice where I was parked.

Is this normal after changing anti-freeze, or did they maybe botch the job? I had no known leaks before.

I know that runnning the A/C produces some runoff from the car, but this looks thicker. I don't think it's oil. It didn't fade out much the day after I noticed it.

Thanks,

T-Star

 

[max]

What color was it?

 

[pete-driver]

After using the A/C what you see is just water from condensation on the A/C compressor. Radiator fluid is bright green and it should not be seen. It wouldn't hurt to go back and ask them to check it again.

 

[Texas Star]

Good point about the color, but it was dark (at night) , and I can only say that it was also a dark liquid soaked into the paving. I shined a flashlight on it, but didn't see any green sheen, as I thought I might with antifreeze.

But it didn't look as thick as oil might.

I'll try to see it in daylight tomorrow, if weather permits. It's expected to be awful here, maybe with freezing rain and high winds. I will try to get back to Sear's and have them check it.

T-Star
P.S. -

Pete-

You largely answered my question: "It should not be seen." Thanks.

 

[guntownuncle]

If it were summer I'd say they might have overfilled it a little. Your engine would heat up, and the extra would go into the reservoir intended for that purpose. If the reservoir was already full, it would run some onto the ground. This could especially happen when idleing in the summer with the AC. It would seem a little less likely in the winter, especially with the heater going to draw some heat off of the engine, but I suppose it could be possible.

 

[Texas Star]

If it were summer I'd say they might have overfilled it a little. Your engine would heat up, and the extra would go into the reservoir intended for that purpose. If the reservoir was already full, it would run some onto the ground. This could especially happen when idleing in the summer with the AC. It would seem a little less likely in the winter, especially with the heater going to draw some heat off of the engine, but I suppose it could be possible.

If they DID overfill it, will this runoff be safe, or is it likely to create pressure problems that can damage the radiator?
I've heard that overfilling the oil can ruin the engine. (Blow seals.) That's mainly what concerns me.

Thanks,

T-Star

 

[Spotteddog]

No T/S,
Seeing fluid after a service/maintenance operation is NOT normal! You can expect modern coolants to be any color from orangish/green/yellowish. The heater not operating can be due to (but not limited to) an air pocket trapped in the cylinder head or heater core, which can duplicate a "low coolant" like symptom. Many engines now have air bleeds at high points, T-stat, top of head, etc. to "burp" the system of air. However, the heater may also not be working due to a coolant leak (staining when parked) causing the coolant level to be too low to circulate through the heater core. If that's the case, overheating and the risk of head gasket damage is very real. If it turns out to be just a loose clamp, fine! But also check to make sure the knot heads put the correct coolant in. The wrong stuff can accelerate aluminum breakdown.
Good Luck!
(FYI; old mechanics trick. All anti-freeze's taste sweet. Just don't eat yellow snow!)

 

[Texas Star]

No T/S,
Seeing fluid after a service/maintenance operation is NOT normal! You can expect modern coolants to be any color from orangish/green/yellowish. The heater not operating can be due to (but not limited to) an air pocket trapped in the cylinder head or heater core, which can duplicate a "low coolant" like symptom. Many have engines now have air bleeds to "burp" the system of air. However, the heater may not be working due to a coolant leak (staining when parked) causing the coolant level to be too low to circulate through the heater core. If that's the case, overheating and the risk of head gasket damage is very real. If it turns out to be just a loose clamp, fine! But also check to make sure the knot heads put the correct coolant in. The wrong stuff can accelerate aluminum breakdown.
Good Luck!
(FYI; old mechanics trick. All anti-freeze's taste sweet. Just don't eat yellow snow!)

You may be onto something here. My heater has not been acting normal. It runs best on the two lowest settings, and blows cool air if I set it on higher settings. The Sear's man said that coolant level was low, but I thought that was because I hadn't checked it in a long time and that some liquid had been evaporated or burned off in use.

I'll see if they're qualified to check the heater and monitor fluid levels more carefully.

 

[guntownuncle]

If they DID overfill it, will this runoff be safe, or is it likely to create pressure problems that can damage the radiator?
I've heard that overfilling the oil can ruin the engine. (Blow seals.)

Thanks,

T-Star

Actually, I think the reservior is there specifically because as the coolant absorbs more heat it will expand some and has to go somewhere, so it shouldn't cause a pressure problem. My wife drives a toyota, but it is a prius, so I don't know for sure how to tell you how to check on yours. I have a crapped out old Ford Escort with a fan problem, so I check it a lot in the summer. With the hood open I can look just to the left of the radiator and there is a white plastic container with a non-pressurized cap that looks a lot like the kind of thing you would put windshield wiper fluid in. I'm fine on the highway, but when I get home and stop the radiator starts to perculate. The much expanded fluid goes from my radiator to the white plastic bottle. If the fluid in the bottle gets too low I get a "check coolant" light on the dash, so I have to put some fluid in there as well. Once the fluid from the radiator gets in there too, it overflows. You could probably find that reservior and check the level in it. I still kind of doubt that is the problem because of the cold weather we've had, but that would be the easiest problem to fix.

 

[therevjay]

I don't know about your car. But with my 04 Mopar if you run the heater, defroster, or anthing else the A/C compressor will operate and produce condensation which will leave a puddle under the car.

 

[Texas Star]

Actually, I think the reservior is there specifically because as the coolant absorbs more heat it will expand some and has to go somewhere, so it shouldn't cause a pressure problem. My wife drives a toyota, but it is a prius, so I don't know for sure how to tell you how to check on yours. I have a crapped out old Ford Escort with a fan problem, so I check it a lot in the summer. With the hood open I can look just to the left of the radiator and there is a white plastic container with a non-pressurized cap that looks a lot like the kind of thing you would put windshield wiper fluid in. I'm fine on the highway, but when I get home and stop the radiator starts to perculate. The much expanded fluid goes from my radiator to the white plastic bottle. If the fluid in the bottle gets too low I get a "check coolant" light on the dash, so I have to put some fluid in there as well. Once the fluid from the radiator gets in there too, it overflows. You could probably find that reservior and check the level in it. I still kind of doubt that is the problem because of the cold weather we've had, but that would be the easiest problem to fix.

I think I know the resovoir that you mean. How full should it be, if the car hasn't been running for an hour or two? (Or, overnight) That should give me a clue if it's leaking?

The car is a Corolla, by the way.

Does running the heater a lot while I'm working at night cause this, maybe? I have a part-time job as a guard, and work out of my car. I sometimes have to run the heater for a half hour or so to get warm for awhile. I also rely on blankets.

T-Star

 

[Spotteddog]

Absolutely not T/S.
While small engines (especially those made with a lot of aluminum components) neither build, nor store heat as quickly or as well as a big cast iron V-8, they should build enough heat to have emission controls operate effectively? Was the thermostat part of this latest "service"? At that age, it too may need attention.
But long gone are the days of seeing a 63' Ford Fairlane with a small inline 6, having a bath mat all the way across it's grille trying to build heat!

 

[guntownuncle]

I think I know the resovoir that you mean. How full should it be, if the car hasn't been running for an hour or two? (Or, overnight) That should give me a clue if it's leaking?

The car is a Corolla, by the way.

Does running the heater a lot while I'm working at night cause this, maybe? I have a part-time job as a guard, and work out of my car. I sometimes have to run the heater for a half hour or so to get warm for awhile. I also rely on blankets.

T-Star

Actually running the heater should help keep it from happening since it helps draw heat away from the engine and helps the radiator do its job. Thats a good thing to know as a last ditch effort to keep your car from overheating in the summer, if you can stand it.

Letting the car idle for a long time, on the other hand, would mean that the engine is getting hotter than it would be if you were moving and forcing air through the grill and onto the engine.

It think one of the above posts was right about your compressor coming on. I know it happens in Chevys when you turn on the defrost.

You can look at the reservior with a flash light and it should have a mark labeled on the outside that shows how full it should normally be. The plastic should allow you to see the fluid on the inside. It is this reservior that will be overfull. I don't know that there is such a thing as the radiator itself being overfull since it would blow all the exta into the reservior, but I'm sure some of the better mechanics on the forum can clarify that.

 

[Texas Star]

The thermostat wasn't worked on. And the engine heat indicator needle on the dash doesn't show that the engine has been overheating.

But when I turned on the heat on high one night, I saw in the vents (with a flashlight as I was adjusting the vent) a brown object that looked like a dried out roach flutter around for awhile. Then, it dropped out of sight.

I wonder if it's blocking some function. There are roaches sometimes in the parking lot at work, and one may have crawled into my car. Or, maybe it's some form of insulation or some such?

T-Star

 

[guntownuncle]

The thermostat wasn't worked on. And the engine heat indicator needle on the dash doesn't show that the engine has been overheating.

But when I turned on the heat on high one night, I saw in the vents (with a flashlight as I was adjusting the vent) a brown object that looked like a dried out roach flutter around for awhile. Then, it dropped out of sight.

I wonder is it's blocking some function.

T-Star

On my old Ford the needle never goes above half way, even when I idle and I can hear the radiator bubbling. I should get the damn thing fixed, but its so old and has so many miles on it I hate to spend any money on it. (The same thinking is behind the "death panels" in socialized healthcare.) Besides, I specifically don't have that problem in the winter.

I park under a mesquite tree, and I've had mesquite leaves blow out at me when I crank the heater up.

 

[Spotteddog]

GTU is right.
If the coolant recovery system isn't operating properly, the expanding (warm) coolant belching into the recovery reservoir via the radiator cap, may not have the ability to be drawn back into the system as it cools, due to an air leak either at the cap or elsewhere. This preventing the coolant recovery from drawing back into and re-filling the cooling system. That possibly duplicating a "low coolant level" heater operation symptom? If the reservoir is getting coolant burped into it, but is unable to return same into the system, eventually it would overflow and leave a deposit on the ground. But the out come is the same. The hot water heater as they're known, isn't "heating" 'cause no "hot water" is being seen by it! Either because of low level, air pockets, bad thermostat, or all of the above.

 

[Texas Star]

Well, if the coolant is the "hot water" needed by the heater, and the radiator was low, that may be why the heater isn't working right. I haven't tried the higher settings on it since I got new anti-freeze.

Idling the engine a long time to use the heater in the parking lot may cause some overflow.
??

I'll see what Sear's says, but with the knowledge that you guys provided, I know better what to ask them.

This board is astonishing!

Many thanks,

T-Star

 

[OLDFED]

Better buy up all the anti-freeze you can now. With Global Warming coming soon, we won't need it.

 

[MKT]

Just for the record, the Toyota coolant (provided Sears used the correct stuff) is red not bright green.

If your system is low the heater will not function correctly, and if the system is low you have a leak. It could be an abraded hose, seeping gasket or other defect in to cooling system, which includes the heater core & heater hoses. I imagine you'll find the overflow tank low to empty. If so, with the engine cold open the radiator cap and see how low.

I once had an Isuzu Trooper that the heater was acting funny on, not getting up to temp even though the gauge showed normal. Turned out I had a leaking head gasket, lost most of the water and cooked the engine. I should have looked into the ineffective heater earlier.

 

[Spotteddog]

Precisely MKT!