Any ammo to stay away from?
- Thread starter MrCanon
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1) Tula, Wolf or any other Eastern European ammunition. I do not trust the cases used, the powder used or the bullets used. You may save $3 on a box of 50 but you may ruin your gun in the process.
2) I believe the sentence following the statement not to use it explains the reason.
"Plus-P-Plus (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith & Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such ammunition may vary signifi- cantly as to the pressures generated.
2) I believe the sentence following the statement not to use it explains the reason.
"Plus-P-Plus (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith & Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such ammunition may vary signifi- cantly as to the pressures generated.
any gun made for a 357 will handle any type of 38 spc. i would stay away from any steel cased ammo only because of the coating they put on them can melt if your gun is very hot and get stuck in in the gun. the 586 is a fine hand gun and can handle many, many rounds of 357 mag. you will enjoy it.
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Since a .357 Magnum is a whole lot more power, pressure and blast than a .38 special +P+, I would not hesitate to use them in any Magnum rated revolver.
As far as what ammo to say away from....... anything made in China!
Chief38
As far as what ammo to say away from....... anything made in China!
Chief38
CCantu357
Member
I would avoid the 130 grain WWB ball ammo even for target use. I had large batch of it and had several "duds". Hate saying that Winchester usually is the best around but perhaps I had a bad batch. Super-X is an another story though.
MichiganScott
Member
It's my favorite target load in my 642. Perhaps a bad batch?
JJEH
Member
I don't trust anything russian and/or korean...
MrCanon,
I'm not sure what brand you should stay away from... but other have made suggestions that sound reasonable to me.
My preference with 38 special.357 mag is to stay away from the lightest weight/charge and the other end of the scale the /heavyest hottest loads. neither are fun to shoot and both end up costing you more and screwing up your gun.
Stick with 158g rounds LSWC or jacketed bullets - they are easyer on your wrist, gun and your wallet! I guess if I had to pick one brand of ammo to stay away from - Im not a huge fan of Blazer ammo... I have not had much problem with store bought ammo but when I did... it was always Blazer.
I'm not sure what brand you should stay away from... but other have made suggestions that sound reasonable to me.
My preference with 38 special.357 mag is to stay away from the lightest weight/charge and the other end of the scale the /heavyest hottest loads. neither are fun to shoot and both end up costing you more and screwing up your gun.
Stick with 158g rounds LSWC or jacketed bullets - they are easyer on your wrist, gun and your wallet! I guess if I had to pick one brand of ammo to stay away from - Im not a huge fan of Blazer ammo... I have not had much problem with store bought ammo but when I did... it was always Blazer.
CCantu357
Member
Perhaps. They looked very short even compared to my 125 grain Silvertips, but maybe it is just me. I may give them a try again, just my K-frame seems to love 110s and 158s the best. Strange contrast but those two loads shoot the best out of it!
oberon
Member
PMC is some of the best ammo in the world. And the brass is top notch.
I'm not afraid of steel cased Russian, either.
I've run tons of it through all my rifles. No problem.
Arik
Member
^that^
Rifles, handguns, never had a problem not even with this so called laquer coating. I've shot hundreds of rounds of Wolf 9mm through my Luger without any kind of cleaning. It never jammed, hiccuped, or failed in any way. My Remington 700 eats Wolf and Bear 308for and asks for more. Guns are not as sensitive as everyone makes them out to be. Unless you have a very very old rifle or one that was custom made with extremely tight tolerances for long range then i could see not using it.
As for any other manufacturer, like winchester white box. Think about it. These companies make millions upon millions of rounds a year. To think that an occasional dud or a bad batch will never happen is absurd. Even quality control cant make sure each individual bullet is perfect before leaving the factory. Everyone makes bad batches. Just because you havent bought one doesn't mean its not out there sitting somewhere on a shelf waiting to be bought.
I dont know about your specific firearm and the +P+ but generally speaking most modern firearms will handle that and ask for more. Besides stuff like +P and +P+ is more of a SD ammo then plinking ammo. You might try a box to see if you like it and then carry it but at the prices they sell for its certainly not for plinking.
ETA
If you've shot PPU commercial ammo in the past 5 years or so then you've shot Wolf.
Wolf bought out PPU and all Wolf gold ammo is made by PPU. Other wolf ammo is made in Russia along with some PPU ammo.
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Arik
Member
PPU (E. Europe) along with IMI (Israeli) supply some of the ammo used by the US in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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RandomMan
Member
I would stay away from a bunch of American supplies. Namely Independence, Georgia Arms (reloads), CCI Blazer (aluminum), and RBDC. These companies are the only ones I've ever had problems with, mostly QC, like ammo that is too long OAL, ammo that is under powered, or in the case of Blazer aluminum, it doesn't hold crimps well, so bullets get pulled forward and will lock up a revolver.
I have shot many, many, thousands of rounds of Wolf, Prvi Partizan (PPU), IMI, Aguila, Sellier and Bellot, Fiocchi, Magtech, and even Norinco made ammo. Of all of those the Magtechs sometimes have hard primers, and won't touch off on the first shot, so I tend to avoid them. In particular, I've fired probably 5000 rounds of PPU 158-grain SJFP in .38 Special, never once have I had a problem with it. Quality stuff, love it and shoot it regularly.
-Rob
I have shot many, many, thousands of rounds of Wolf, Prvi Partizan (PPU), IMI, Aguila, Sellier and Bellot, Fiocchi, Magtech, and even Norinco made ammo. Of all of those the Magtechs sometimes have hard primers, and won't touch off on the first shot, so I tend to avoid them. In particular, I've fired probably 5000 rounds of PPU 158-grain SJFP in .38 Special, never once have I had a problem with it. Quality stuff, love it and shoot it regularly.
-Rob
Can't knock American Eagle. I have seen Hickok45 use that ammo a lot (Federal) without any problems in a multitude of calibers to inlcude .357. As for.357 I prefer 158 grain. You can shoot less but there is a possibility and who knows how many rounds it would take that you could ruin your weapon breaking around the forcing cone. There is more open space around the lower grained bullets as it fits into your chamber. Gases blow back rather than push forward as with the 158 grain and that force impacts the forcing cone. Now it is conceivable it could take a thousand or more to do this but my philosophy is why shoot it when I am treating my gun better shooting 158. I've used the Tula in a 1911. Did not have any problems but only shot 50 rounds. Will I use it again? Possibly if I still have a box of it left for my 1911. After that maybe not.
My nephew bought some PPU .38 Special RNL ammo at a gun show, and gave it to me. It was in a plastic rack, like an insert that goes in an ammo box, but it wasn't in a box. It doesn't look like it's been reloaded...but then, I don't reload so I can't really tell. I looked it up online, and it looks like the pictures I can find. The reviews for this ammo, in this configuration, are generally bad...most say it's very dirty, leaves a lot of lead deposit, and a number complained about malfunctions in the .38 special load. The positive comments were almost all in other calibers/configurations.
Frankly, I'm very leery about shooting this ammo in my gun...first, I don't know if it's actually factory ammo, or reloaded. Second, it didn't even come in a box (which, the box may have been damaged and the seller at the gun show might have thought that it would detract from the "appearance" but it also may mean the ammo was improperly stored, or is reloaded.) Third, I don't know the seller...my nephew is very inexperienced, and while he was trying to be thoughtful, which I appreciate, I need to advise him about buying ammo. Finally, I am concerned about shooting lead ammo period.
I think I'll donate this stuff to the local police department, so they can either use it or dispose of it.
Arik
Member
If you don't want it I'll take. I have yet to have bad PPU ammo and I don't care about the dirt, it's not an indication of functionality.
It is possible that someone shot the original PPU and reloaded it and then sold it
Revolvers all shoot lead without a problem.
It is possible that someone shot the original PPU and reloaded it and then sold it
Revolvers all shoot lead without a problem.
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Check your ammo
As the senior firearms instructor for a federal law enforcement agency, I estimate that I supervised the firing of a bit over four million rounds of .38 Spl. and 9mm in 29 years. This was GSA contract ammo and the suppliers were Win. Federal and Remington.
We found occasional defects in all of them: inverted primers and bullets, damaged and rolled-in case mouths. One Winchester case didn't have a flash hole. Also, rounds that failed to fire despite a healthy primer indent. However, we never found a round assembled without powder nor did we ever have a bullet lodge in the bore as a result of a squib load. We also never suffered a kaboom of any kind.
At least for duty and self defense ammo, be sure to check it before loading it into magazines or speed loaders.
As the senior firearms instructor for a federal law enforcement agency, I estimate that I supervised the firing of a bit over four million rounds of .38 Spl. and 9mm in 29 years. This was GSA contract ammo and the suppliers were Win. Federal and Remington.
We found occasional defects in all of them: inverted primers and bullets, damaged and rolled-in case mouths. One Winchester case didn't have a flash hole. Also, rounds that failed to fire despite a healthy primer indent. However, we never found a round assembled without powder nor did we ever have a bullet lodge in the bore as a result of a squib load. We also never suffered a kaboom of any kind.
At least for duty and self defense ammo, be sure to check it before loading it into magazines or speed loaders.
Well, I'd give it to you, but since you are in PA and I'm in Texas, I don't think it's going to be practical. Even if you wanted to pay for shipping (which I can't imagine why you would, for 50 rounds) I'd have to drive an hour to get to a UPS hub (I live in the country) and it's not worth my gas or time.
I don't know how to tell...I've looked at the rounds, and I can't see any obvious marks, scratches, primers incorrectly seated, or any different appearance from other factory ammo...but then I don't reload, and I've never bought reloads, so I wouldn't know what to look for.
I know they do...and for years, that's all there was. I just don't want to shoot non-jacketed lead in mine...of course, 50 rounds isn't going to do much leading, I suppose, but I have other concerns with this ammo than just leading.
Pisgah
Member
As previous answers have indicated, Brands A, B and C are all absolutely the best -- and Brands A, B and C are the absolute worst, and will destroy your gun, remove your hands and eyes, and run off with your wife, so stay away from them... don't even look at a box of them!!!
Any commercially-made .38 or .357 should be perfectly safe in your gun although, as is always true, some loads will undoubtedly work better in your gun than others.
Any commercially-made .38 or .357 should be perfectly safe in your gun although, as is always true, some loads will undoubtedly work better in your gun than others.
Don't shoot.......
Don't shoot ANYBODY'S reloads except your own, should you try that path. A long time ago I tried what the LGS called 'factory reloads' (which can mean anything) and never again.
You've acquired a first rate .357. Anything that was made for .38 or .357 should be fine.
Hint: I used to shoot .38s in my .357. It leaves a crud ring in the chamber that makes it difficult to chamber .357 rounds unless it is brushed out. Now I just load my .38 type loads in .357 cases and no more crud ring.
The problem with +.38++ or whatever pluses they label is that there are NO STANDARD for limits on the maximum pressure limit on such cartridges. In fact, they could be anything. For all you know it could be a case full of nitroglycerin. All firearms aren't built as strongly as others and such a load in a weaker gun could be big trouble.
Now .38+P does have a standard, and if a .38 gun can handle +P rounds shoot away.
There are SOME reputable dealers that load to very high pressures and label their ammo BUT they are still within the allowed pressure for the .38 cartridge. Such companies as Cor-bon, Double Tap and a few others that load to these high pressures, but stay within allowable limits by tricks such as special blends of powder, etc. These 'special duty' defense rounds are expensive.
The 585 is a strong modern design and can take a lot, but I'm not going to put an unknown load in anything.
Don't shoot ANYBODY'S reloads except your own, should you try that path. A long time ago I tried what the LGS called 'factory reloads' (which can mean anything) and never again.
You've acquired a first rate .357. Anything that was made for .38 or .357 should be fine.
Hint: I used to shoot .38s in my .357. It leaves a crud ring in the chamber that makes it difficult to chamber .357 rounds unless it is brushed out. Now I just load my .38 type loads in .357 cases and no more crud ring.
The problem with +.38++ or whatever pluses they label is that there are NO STANDARD for limits on the maximum pressure limit on such cartridges. In fact, they could be anything. For all you know it could be a case full of nitroglycerin. All firearms aren't built as strongly as others and such a load in a weaker gun could be big trouble.
Now .38+P does have a standard, and if a .38 gun can handle +P rounds shoot away.
There are SOME reputable dealers that load to very high pressures and label their ammo BUT they are still within the allowed pressure for the .38 cartridge. Such companies as Cor-bon, Double Tap and a few others that load to these high pressures, but stay within allowable limits by tricks such as special blends of powder, etc. These 'special duty' defense rounds are expensive.
The 585 is a strong modern design and can take a lot, but I'm not going to put an unknown load in anything.
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The only 38 special +P+ load that I know of is with the little 110gr JHP that was called the "Treasery Load" many years ago.
Today there are lots of Factory ammo that has better bullets, bullet design and penetration and expansion than this old load that can and has damaged revolvers in the past, due to its high pressures.
There is no need to go over 18,500 cup for a SD loading, with todays modern ammo, some that work as low as 800 fps and will work even in the light weight J frames, where the +P+ load needed a steel K frame if possible.
Today there are lots of Factory ammo that has better bullets, bullet design and penetration and expansion than this old load that can and has damaged revolvers in the past, due to its high pressures.
There is no need to go over 18,500 cup for a SD loading, with todays modern ammo, some that work as low as 800 fps and will work even in the light weight J frames, where the +P+ load needed a steel K frame if possible.
Frank46
US Veteran
Don't shoot A-Merc. When I was a brass scrounger I'd pick up just about anything. The above mentioned brand went in the scrap bucket. Brass was junk, way off centered flash holes cost me a few decapping pins. Frank
CTG_COLLECTOR
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1)Stick to commercial brand name ammo.
2) Stay away form "gun show" reloads.
3) If you want to use reloaded (aka: remanufactured) ammo, buy from well known companies (Miwall, Georgia Arms, Black Hills etc) who are licensed, bonded and insured.
There was a mention about steel cased ammo earlier. There was only one single 357Mag steel cased load made and sold on the market, and that was WOLF Performance brand made by Tula Cartridge Works, and it was a very limited production and probably very hard to find. So no worries there.
As for A-Merc (American Ammunition), this company went out of business long ago and it is unlikely anyone will come across any of this ammo in large quantities.
Best rule of thumb, stick with commercial manufacturers (Fed, Rem, Win, Speer, Magtech, Fiocchi, S&B, Prvi Partizan, Aguila, etc.). Cabelas brand ammo (Herters) is also good ammo (previously made by Fiocchi and now by S&B).
2) Stay away form "gun show" reloads.
3) If you want to use reloaded (aka: remanufactured) ammo, buy from well known companies (Miwall, Georgia Arms, Black Hills etc) who are licensed, bonded and insured.
There was a mention about steel cased ammo earlier. There was only one single 357Mag steel cased load made and sold on the market, and that was WOLF Performance brand made by Tula Cartridge Works, and it was a very limited production and probably very hard to find. So no worries there.
As for A-Merc (American Ammunition), this company went out of business long ago and it is unlikely anyone will come across any of this ammo in large quantities.
Best rule of thumb, stick with commercial manufacturers (Fed, Rem, Win, Speer, Magtech, Fiocchi, S&B, Prvi Partizan, Aguila, etc.). Cabelas brand ammo (Herters) is also good ammo (previously made by Fiocchi and now by S&B).
geddylee10002000
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Had a fellow shooter that shot that in the last IDPA match that I went to. He had about 8% failure to ignite. He had a really nice Colt MKIII that had a action job. Didn't recognize the smith but I am no expert. The rounds that didn't go of had really light primer strikes. Either primers were uber hard or the action job was set for like Federal primers. Another fellow shooter (686) had a bit of a problem with the same ammo. Bad batch?
The strain screw......
I'm not saying any of you guys have this problem but it's worth checking out. Revolvers have 'strain screw' that tightens down on the main spring that extends into the grip. Loosening them means a lighter trigger, but it also means light primer strikes. Sometimes they just back out and and need to be tightened up and SOMETIMES people will loosen or shorten them to give a quick 'trigger job'. Then the next is they come on the forum and complain about how they are getting light primer strikes. Check the strain screw first.
I'm not saying any of you guys have this problem but it's worth checking out. Revolvers have 'strain screw' that tightens down on the main spring that extends into the grip. Loosening them means a lighter trigger, but it also means light primer strikes. Sometimes they just back out and and need to be tightened up and SOMETIMES people will loosen or shorten them to give a quick 'trigger job'. Then the next is they come on the forum and complain about how they are getting light primer strikes. Check the strain screw first.
First, congratulations on buying your first S&W... and a 586 at that!
Second, the above replies offer excellent advice.
Third, based on my own personal experience w/ S&W L-frame revolvers, you can shoot any .38 Special load produced by any manufacturer domestic or import if it meets SAAMI standards. There will be simply no problem at all in any respect. The 586 will easily handle it.
Your revolver will handle any .357 Magnum load produced by any manufacturer, domestic or foreign again as long as it meets SAAMI standards.
I have fired more .357 Magnum ammo of all sorts than I have any possible way to calculate all without any problems at all. This is without exception. Buy what you can find at the price you can afford. Sight in with the ammo that gives you best accuracy for your needs and that is actually available. Use other ammo that may not be as accurate or may be more economical, etc., for the range, etc. If you should find any steel or aluminum cased ammo at a good price that suits your needs, buy it and fire it. The only problem it will give you is if you need brass for reloading as the steel or aluminum cases are not suitable for reloading. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.
CatSnipah
Member
Avoid any ammo that is flying in your direction.
Otherwise, good luck , great purchase and happy shooting!!
Otherwise, good luck , great purchase and happy shooting!!
jojodogfaceboy
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I had multiple "duds" from Remington brand ammo.
2 different cals. .45 and .38. both boxes bought at different stores at different times.
maybe just bad luck?
2 different cals. .45 and .38. both boxes bought at different stores at different times.
maybe just bad luck?
dcxplant
Member
whatever you do, STAY AWAY FROM ANY .22 AMMO!
That stuff is deadly to users, guaranteed to cause havoc with the buyer, just say no!
That stuff is deadly to users, guaranteed to cause havoc with the buyer, just say no!
