MrTrolleyguy
US Veteran
Have not seen much on non-lethal options on the Forums.
Good, bad or indifferent has anyone actually used a Taser?
Good, bad or indifferent has anyone actually used a Taser?
Any experience with Taser Kits?
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Rastoff
US Veteran
The true Taser, as employed by the police, is illegal in many places. This is the device that shoots barbs into the target and has wires back to the "gun" portion. It is effective because you can shock a person and then if they don't quit, shock them again.
The variety that is legal is the type that doesn't shoot anything. It just has contact points and you press it against someone and zap them. There are some serious drawbacks to this. First, you have to get close to the assailant. If you have the option of leaving, that is always better than closing the distance to shock them.
Secondly, you must keep it pressed against them for it to work. As soon as they pull away, which is likely when they get shocked, the shocking stops. They could recover quickly and be more aggressive than before.
Third, the units are generally not small. It's often easier to carry a gun because they have more options on how to carry.
Don't get me wrong, they are a great tool. If you can get the actual Taser, they are fantastic. It's just that the version generally available to the public has some drawbacks.
I would counsel you that pepper spray is better.
The variety that is legal is the type that doesn't shoot anything. It just has contact points and you press it against someone and zap them. There are some serious drawbacks to this. First, you have to get close to the assailant. If you have the option of leaving, that is always better than closing the distance to shock them.
Secondly, you must keep it pressed against them for it to work. As soon as they pull away, which is likely when they get shocked, the shocking stops. They could recover quickly and be more aggressive than before.
Third, the units are generally not small. It's often easier to carry a gun because they have more options on how to carry.
Don't get me wrong, they are a great tool. If you can get the actual Taser, they are fantastic. It's just that the version generally available to the public has some drawbacks.
I would counsel you that pepper spray is better.
There is a civilian legal version of the police model available. It is PA legal as long as you are not using it for criminal endeavors.
Black TASER C2: Safe, Effective Self-Defense
Even available in pink...
I would not even consider using an EMD tool that was not made by Taser Intl.
Black TASER C2: Safe, Effective Self-Defense
Even available in pink...
I would not even consider using an EMD tool that was not made by Taser Intl.
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I have both used a taser and had a taser used on me (in training). I can say that at the same time it really sucks and that it is a highly effective tool most of the time.
The civilian model is extremely expensive and is designed to be a throw-away. You are supposedly able to get it replaced by TASER INT. by sending a letter along with a copy of a police report detailing its use.
Like with a firearm though, you have to train with shooting it accurately (remember, you only get one shot) and there is no real way to do that with the civilian model. So I have to agree with RASTOFF in saying that a strong OC spray would be the better choice for most people in general.
The civilian model is extremely expensive and is designed to be a throw-away. You are supposedly able to get it replaced by TASER INT. by sending a letter along with a copy of a police report detailing its use.
Like with a firearm though, you have to train with shooting it accurately (remember, you only get one shot) and there is no real way to do that with the civilian model. So I have to agree with RASTOFF in saying that a strong OC spray would be the better choice for most people in general.
JJEH
Member
I have seen too many times (online) when a Taser did not work and the LEO was in real trouble. I would not recommend it for several reasons;
- with the cheap ones you really have to get up close.
- they don't always work.
- a real Taser like the X26C for instance cost more than a firearm.
- it's bigger than a firearm and I haven't seen any IWB holsters.
- replacement cartridges are more expensive than ammo.
I think with a quality handgun, OC spray and a knife you are better off.
- with the cheap ones you really have to get up close.
- they don't always work.
- a real Taser like the X26C for instance cost more than a firearm.
- it's bigger than a firearm and I haven't seen any IWB holsters.
- replacement cartridges are more expensive than ammo.
I think with a quality handgun, OC spray and a knife you are better off.
They're legal in MO as well. They shoot out serial numbered confetti when deployed, so that the original purchaser can be identified.
Rpg
Member
I recall reading that tasers are about 60% effective (the precise number was 63% I believe) in police hands.
That number refers to the likely hood of actually hitting the target with both 'darts' and having both darts make contact through the clothing so a shock can actually be delivered. If proper contact is made, they work pretty well.
You have to be very close to your target when you use your taser, so if your taser doesn't work out you are inside 7 yards when you have to drop the taser and go for whatever other sd tool you may have available.
Police practice seems to be to use the taser primarily when the officer has backup on hand to rush in to complete the apprehension of the BG.
A civilian in a sd situation is unlikely to have the backup that would be so useful in the 40% of instances when the taser doesn't make contact and therefore doesn't work.
Even if the civilian's taser works, now what?
The civilian has a BG twitching in the ground. Civilian doesn't have handcuffs or any other way of securing the BG and doesn't have back up help to secure the BG. Furthermore, the civilian is now tethered to the BG.
Seems like a poor choice for civilian sd, in my view.
That number refers to the likely hood of actually hitting the target with both 'darts' and having both darts make contact through the clothing so a shock can actually be delivered. If proper contact is made, they work pretty well.
You have to be very close to your target when you use your taser, so if your taser doesn't work out you are inside 7 yards when you have to drop the taser and go for whatever other sd tool you may have available.
Police practice seems to be to use the taser primarily when the officer has backup on hand to rush in to complete the apprehension of the BG.
A civilian in a sd situation is unlikely to have the backup that would be so useful in the 40% of instances when the taser doesn't make contact and therefore doesn't work.
Even if the civilian's taser works, now what?
The civilian has a BG twitching in the ground. Civilian doesn't have handcuffs or any other way of securing the BG and doesn't have back up help to secure the BG. Furthermore, the civilian is now tethered to the BG.
Seems like a poor choice for civilian sd, in my view.
Rastoff
US Veteran
RPG makes sense. When you think about it, the roles of police and civilians are completely different.
When a policeman presents a Taser or firearm, most of the time they are trying to apprehend a suspected bad guy. When a civilian presents their firearm, they are trying to survive a life threatening situation. I'm not saying that the police aren't in life threatening situations, it's just that they use their tools differently.
Also, when it comes to a life threatening situation, you want to bring as much force as possible, as quickly as possible. Why? Because you don't want to slow him down or apprehend him, you want to stop the threat right now.
When a policeman presents a Taser or firearm, most of the time they are trying to apprehend a suspected bad guy. When a civilian presents their firearm, they are trying to survive a life threatening situation. I'm not saying that the police aren't in life threatening situations, it's just that they use their tools differently.
Also, when it comes to a life threatening situation, you want to bring as much force as possible, as quickly as possible. Why? Because you don't want to slow him down or apprehend him, you want to stop the threat right now.
Ranger514
Member
Several years ago, I got into a struggle arresting a 280 lb. 6' 4" BG on felony drug charges. My partner tasered him with an X26 as I broke free. The BG hit the ground for his five second ride, and then came up cursing. My partner gave him a another ride, and at the conclusion of the second cycle, the big BG was sobbing that he'd had enough. He meekly followed orders, and I ended up linking two sets of cuffs to get his arms secured behind his back. Turned out the BG had a Smith&Wesson snubby tucked under the driver's seat of his van, which is where he was headed when we stopped him.
I'm a big believer in Taser effectiveness, and they take a BG down immediately, while OC spray takes time to do its work. While OC is inexpensive, it can also be a liability. It can easily disable you if the wind isn't in your favor when you push the button. If you use it, spray it in the BG's face for a full 2 seconds and quickly beat a retreat. That's another issue: BGs don't always stand still and let you spray them, and the face is a small moving target to hit. On the positive side, OC is relatively inexpensive. I still carry some in a pocket in case it's needed.
I'm a big believer in Taser effectiveness, and they take a BG down immediately, while OC spray takes time to do its work. While OC is inexpensive, it can also be a liability. It can easily disable you if the wind isn't in your favor when you push the button. If you use it, spray it in the BG's face for a full 2 seconds and quickly beat a retreat. That's another issue: BGs don't always stand still and let you spray them, and the face is a small moving target to hit. On the positive side, OC is relatively inexpensive. I still carry some in a pocket in case it's needed.
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
I can't afford a police-style taser and don't want an assailant close enough to use a contact type. I'm weighing the option of OC gel, but have real doubts. I pray I'll never have to shoot anybody in self defense, but if the threat is that great some perforation would seem to be in order.
OP
MrTrolleyguy
US Veteran
Thanks for the great feedback. I will stay with a good quality OC spray.
The C2 Taser that’s linked above is much like the LEO type but for civilian use. It allows for multiple uses (replaceable cartridges and battery). It is expensive but IMO much better than OC.
You have the advantage of slightly more effective range, ability to use it as a contact charge (like a ‘stun gun’), and having been tased before in training…30 seconds is a looong *******’ time if you’re on the receiving end. I believe it was only 5 sec for me and that was the longest 5 sec of my life. 30 sec would definitely suck. There’s also the added benefit of letting the device go during those 30 seconds so you can get away as the taser continues to do its thing.
I’ve seen more people fight through the pain of OC than I have the neuromuscular effects of a taser. Add to that all the cross contamination that OC has the potential for.
If you can’t carry in the state you’re in, it might be a good substitute for a gun.
You have the advantage of slightly more effective range, ability to use it as a contact charge (like a ‘stun gun’), and having been tased before in training…30 seconds is a looong *******’ time if you’re on the receiving end. I believe it was only 5 sec for me and that was the longest 5 sec of my life. 30 sec would definitely suck. There’s also the added benefit of letting the device go during those 30 seconds so you can get away as the taser continues to do its thing.
I’ve seen more people fight through the pain of OC than I have the neuromuscular effects of a taser. Add to that all the cross contamination that OC has the potential for.
If you can’t carry in the state you’re in, it might be a good substitute for a gun.
Rastoff
US Veteran
You guys make a good point about the OC spray. The thing about electricity is that no one is immune. All that stuff you see in movies where guys "man up" and power through being shocked to get the other guy is bunk. The electricity actually operates your muscles for you. You can't over power it or "will" yourself through it. Once it starts flowing, you're along for the ride.
Still, OC or pepper spray is better than nothing.
For those that don't know, it comes in three delivery types:
Stream-
Spray-
Foam-
Still, OC or pepper spray is better than nothing.
For those that don't know, it comes in three delivery types:
Stream-
- This produces a straight stream and has the longest reach. Can reach as far as 12'-15'.
- The stream is constant and visible, it's easy enough to get it where you want it.
- Least likely to cross contaminate.
Spray-
- This is more like a fog or wide spray.
- The benefit is great coverage.
- The draw back is limited range and high possibility of cross contamination.
Foam-
- A literal foam like shaving cream.
- Easy to get where you want it and it sticks there.
- A serious drawback is that you have to be very close to effectively use. It sprays further than shaving cream, but still limited range.
I've used a TASER about six times in the line of duty. When it works, it works really well. Miss with one of the probes and you had better have a plan B.
I do not recommend them for a citizen. If mine fails I have pepper spray, a baton and a gun to fall back on (in addition to unarmed skills). For the citizen realize it's a one shot deal with no do overs. I also do not recommend a stun gun which requires direct contact and is better used as a pain compliance weapon.
In short, if one cannot have a gun or wants an alternative in addition to a gun, I advocate OC spray.
I do not recommend them for a citizen. If mine fails I have pepper spray, a baton and a gun to fall back on (in addition to unarmed skills). For the citizen realize it's a one shot deal with no do overs. I also do not recommend a stun gun which requires direct contact and is better used as a pain compliance weapon.
In short, if one cannot have a gun or wants an alternative in addition to a gun, I advocate OC spray.
XD40inTX
Member
This^^^ I've given this much thought and research over a lot of years. My wife and I both carry Shield 40s. We're satisfied that's the best answer.
I was a TASER instructor for a few years on the X26. The public TASER, the C2, has a longer ride with less voltage. I believe it is either 15 or 20 seconds. The idea is that you hit the bad guy, then drop the TASER and get to safety. The company will replace your TASER at no cost.
I have seen TASERs take down huge guys with no problems. I was also involved in a situation where it didn't. Back in '11, i was on a call with an extremely high kid near a college campus. We were placing him in custody, when he tried to run out into a busy road. We were able to tackle him, then the fight was on. I had the kid's right arm behind his back, and was laying on his back, pinning his arm while my partner was wrestling with his left arm. Partner hits him with the TASER, no effect whatsoever. My partner tries my tactic, pinning the left arm behind his back and laying on him, waiting for a more backup. The kid got his left arm free. Now, this kid was over 6', and maybe 165 soaking wet. I was 220 at the time, with about 20lbs of gear on. My partner was about 190 also with 20lbs of gear on. So roughly 450lbs combined.
When that kid got his left arm free, he did a one arm pushup. I'm not kidding, a one arm pushup from this skinny kid with 450lbs of cop on his back. It took 6 of us to get him in cuffs.
Turned out he was on 6 different drugs, including ecstasy, LSD and PCP.
I have seen TASERs take down huge guys with no problems. I was also involved in a situation where it didn't. Back in '11, i was on a call with an extremely high kid near a college campus. We were placing him in custody, when he tried to run out into a busy road. We were able to tackle him, then the fight was on. I had the kid's right arm behind his back, and was laying on his back, pinning his arm while my partner was wrestling with his left arm. Partner hits him with the TASER, no effect whatsoever. My partner tries my tactic, pinning the left arm behind his back and laying on him, waiting for a more backup. The kid got his left arm free. Now, this kid was over 6', and maybe 165 soaking wet. I was 220 at the time, with about 20lbs of gear on. My partner was about 190 also with 20lbs of gear on. So roughly 450lbs combined.
When that kid got his left arm free, he did a one arm pushup. I'm not kidding, a one arm pushup from this skinny kid with 450lbs of cop on his back. It took 6 of us to get him in cuffs.
Turned out he was on 6 different drugs, including ecstasy, LSD and PCP.
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I have oc available to one hand, and a C2 to my other hand. I view them as options to use OTHER than 'hands-on', when the gun would not be warranted. TASER corp now makes a practice cartridge so that you can familarise yourself with it w/o the cost of a live cartridge. I fire one live down my hallway, as I had to know what to experience. It's about like one of the champagne-poppers you let ignite at a New Year's Eve party by yanking on the string. No recoil, and just a little puff of smoke, IIRC. Won't hurt your hearing.
JM4151
Member
Electronic Incapacitation Devices
Mr. Trolley Guy,
Section 908.1 of The Pennsylvania Crimes Code outlines when these devices can be legally carried, and deployed. You can pull that up on any computer. The Taser's are nice but expensive. If somebody is under the influence of certain narcotics they sometimes don't have any effect, that is a small percent of the cases. I wouldn't use one of the units where you have to get close enough to the subject, to touch him.
Do yourself a favor and forget the electronic devices and get a good brand name can of pepper spray. Get one for your car and one for your pocket. They are effective. Less chance of your getting sued if you do have to use it.
Mr. Trolley Guy,
Section 908.1 of The Pennsylvania Crimes Code outlines when these devices can be legally carried, and deployed. You can pull that up on any computer. The Taser's are nice but expensive. If somebody is under the influence of certain narcotics they sometimes don't have any effect, that is a small percent of the cases. I wouldn't use one of the units where you have to get close enough to the subject, to touch him.
Do yourself a favor and forget the electronic devices and get a good brand name can of pepper spray. Get one for your car and one for your pocket. They are effective. Less chance of your getting sued if you do have to use it.
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