Any M&P FPC Shooters Out There??

[justicetyme]

So after reading a lot of articles and watching a lot of videos I thought one of the new M&P FPCs might be fun so I bought one this afternoon.
It was too late after getting home to go down to the range so I thought I'd run a few rounds through it off the front porch.
I loaded up ten rounds in a mag and chambered a round.
CLICK!!
Well maybe it was a bad round so I ejected that one and chambered another one.
CLICK!!
I ejected that round and looked at them both.
There was no mark on the primer at all.
I tried a few more rounds and finally got one to fire.
I went to another box of factory ammo and chambered a round.
CLICK!!
After ejecting and chambering a number of rounds I finally got one to fire.
ALL of the "CLICK" rounds had absolutely no mark on the primer.
I took it into the gun room and as I was looking at it I heard something hit the floor.

Well at least now I know why the firing pin wasn't hitting the primer.

I haven't bought a new S&W handgun since the M&P40 PC Ported in 2015.
I'd seen forum members decrying current quality control now I can see why.

Cheers
James

 

[hostler]

I just picked one up today, haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.
So was the firing pin not installed or was there a crosspin or something missing? It doesn't look broken.
Maybe I'll tear mine down before going to the range just to get a look inside, I really don't know how it all works in there without laying eyes on it.

 

[Dave Lively]

That's disappointing to hear. This gun is still on my list but I have been waiting to see how reliable FPCs purchased through normal channels are before I buy one. Guns sent directly to YouTube and internet reviewers probably get the sort of final QA inspection every gun S&W makes should get.

Parts falling out is obviously a bad sign but can be fixed. I am more worried about intermittent reliability issues that are common with blowback operated 9mm carbines like the Ruger PC I had.

"run a few rounds through it off the front porch." You are making me jealous.

 

[justicetyme]

I haven't taken the time to field strip it and see how the firing pin is retained.
For the firing pin to fall out obviously something is missing or broken.

 

[hostler]

I haven't taken the time to field strip it and see how the firing pin is retained.
For the firing pin to fall out obviously something is missing or broken.

I was curious and did a quick impromptu firing pin test. The firing pin popped out strong enough to dent the end of a sharpie and send it about 4" straight up off the bolt.face, so at least my firing pin is there and working for now.

 

[Dave686]

Can someone that has one please post as to why/how the firing pin could fall out.

 

[justicetyme]

I took a few minutes to field strip the M&P FPC so I could get an understanding as to how its bolt was made and how the firing pin was (supposed to be) retained in it.
It is simple straightforward one piece bolt with a .080" split pin going vertically through the bolt and passing through a notch in the firing pin.
The roll pin is used to retain the firing pin in the bolt's firing pin channel while allowing the firing pin to move forward and strike the primer when the rear of the firing pin is hit with the hammer.
I would assume that there was supposed to be a spring on the front portion of the firing pin to return it to the rear position after the action cycles and the hammer is no longer against the rear of the firing pin.
I say "assume" because there was no spring in the bolt or around the floor where the firing pin fell out.
If someone who has an FPC took a look at their bolt we'd all know for sure if it's supposed to have a firing pin spring or not.

As to how or why this happened since I wasn't present at assembly I can only speculate on the proper assembly procedure but I suspect it is something like:
1.) Put firing pin spring on firing pin and insert it into the firing pin channel in the bolt.
2.) Align the firing pin notch to be in line with the split roll pin.
3.) Push the firing pin forward and CAREFULLY push / drive pin through the bolt to retain the firing pin (& spring??) within the firing pin channel in the bolt.

However the procedure was supposed to be by examining my bolt and firing pin I'm confident that is not how it was assembled.
The split pin is bent so much that the firing pin (big end) can be pushed into the bolt's firing pin channel with your fingers.
I strongly suspect that the firing pin was driven into the firing pin channel after the roll pin was inserted through the bolt and it was so tight against the roll pin that the hammer didn't have enough energy to drive it forward to the firing pin resulting in the loud "CLICK" that occurred.
I'm actually surprised I got it to fire the two times I did.
When I had it back in the gun room with the bolt in slide lock and moving the gun around to look in it and moving the bolt via the charging handle the uncaptured firing pin just fell out.

This design is so simple that it seems a person would almost have to intentionally mess it up.

To me it seems the hammer strike area of the rear bolt face seems more buggered than I would think a dozen or so strikes would leave it.
Cheers
James

 

[justicetyme]

Dave;

"run a few rounds through it off the front porch." You are making me jealous.

But I've got really sorry internet!
J.

 

[hostler]

I wonder if someone bent the rollpin while installing it, like maybe s&w uses a press to put it in and something wasn't aligned correctly.
I would take mine apart to check but my wife and I are kid sitting tonight. If it were my kids, they could help me do it, but these are not mine.

 

[hostler]

I took a few minutes to field strip the M&P FPC so I could get an understanding as to how its bolt was made and how the firing pin was (supposed to be) retained in it.
It is simple straightforward one piece bolt with a .080" split pin going vertically through the bolt and passing through a notch in the firing pin.
The roll pin is used to retain the firing pin in the bolt's firing pin channel while allowing the firing pin to move forward and strike the primer when the rear of the firing pin is hit with the hammer.
I would assume that there was supposed to be a spring on the front portion of the firing pin to return it to the rear position after the action cycles and the hammer is no longer against the rear of the firing pin.
I say "assume" because there was no spring in the bolt or around the floor where the firing pin fell out.
If someone who has an FPC took a look at their bolt we'd all know for sure if it's supposed to have a firing pin spring or not.

As to how or why this happened since I wasn't present at assembly I can only speculate on the proper assembly procedure but I suspect it is something like:
1.) Put firing pin spring on firing pin and insert it into the firing pin channel in the bolt.
2.) Align the firing pin notch to be in line with the split roll pin.
3.) Push the firing pin forward and CAREFULLY push / drive pin through the bolt to retain the firing pin (& spring??) within the firing pin channel in the bolt.

However the procedure was supposed to be by examining my bolt and firing pin I'm confident that is not how it was assembled.
The split pin is bent so much that the firing pin (big end) can be pushed into the bolt's firing pin channel with your fingers.
I strongly suspect that the firing pin was driven into the firing pin channel after the roll pin was inserted through the bolt and it was so tight against the roll pin that the hammer didn't have enough energy to drive it forward to the firing pin resulting in the loud "CLICK" that occurred.
I'm actually surprised I got it to fire the two times I did.
When I had it back in the gun room with the bolt in slide lock and moving the gun around to look in it and moving the bolt via the charging handle the uncaptured firing pin just fell out.

This design is so simple that it seems a person would almost have to intentionally mess it up.

To me it seems the hammer strike area of the rear bolt face seems more buggered than I would think a dozen or so strikes would leave it.
Cheers
James

Ok, I took an opportunity and tore into the gun a little. My bolt face looks like new, no hammer marks at all, completely flat. It is, unfired though. If the firing pin was just lose, floating in there, I can see how the bolt face may take some abuse from the hammer. The firing pin is definitely spring loaded. I didn't drive the rolling pin out so I don't know what my firing pin itself looks like but I do know the firing pin has a spring that counters the hammer force. Something else that may be relevant, the firing pin roll pin is flush to the edge of the smaller hole in the bottom of the bolt, can't really even see it in the larger hole on top.
also something weird, is your bolt black? Mine is stainless or chrome maybe, but definitely not black
Not much you didn't already know but I hope it helps some.

Oh yeah, I wanted to see what the face of the hammer looks like so I let the hammer fall softly with the bolt out of the gun (these things have got the cheesiest little hammers), anyway, if you make the mistake and do this, unless you have ET fingers, you won't be able to reset the hammer by hand. I discovered a trick that I'll share if you need it. It tough to explain so I won't go into it now.

 

[justicetyme]

Yes Virginia There Is A Firing Pin Spring!

As I mentioned in a previous post when I was looking at the FPC in the gun room yesterday evening trying to see why it was not functioning I heard something hit the hardwood floor.
I searched around and found the firing pin but there was nothing else.

Today when I was going to field strip it I couldn't get the bolt to go forward, it was stopped / wedged / stuck about a third of the way forward.

I kept retracting the charge handle and releasing it and it finally went home and I proceeded to field strip the gun.
When I got it apart I looked but didn't see anything that could have been holding the bolt.

I was almost positive that it should have had a firing pin spring so I thought I'd take a big stick magnet and look around the porch for the spring.
However a diligent search produced no spring.

Back in the gun room laying on the floor was the elusive firing pin spring, deformed from being wedged between the bolt carrier and the tube.

Apparently the firing pin spring was still in the bolt after the firing pin fell out yesterday evening and my fumbling around in preparation to field strip the FPC this morning dislodged it and let it fall out of the bolt enough to be temporarily wedged (and permanently bent).
It eventually fell out through the mag well and ended up on floor.

Hopefully a new firing pin spring and roll pin (correctly installed) will get it functioning as it should have been when it left the factory.

Furthering my opinion that the roll pin got bent when Fred Flintstone assembled the bolt incorrectly is the fact that the firing pin spring can easily be pushed into the firing pin channel (past the yet installed roll pin) until the bent part enters the channel.

Cheers
James

 

[hostler]

I know it's a pain but I think it needs to go back to S&W to get another bolt. Your bolt seems pretty buggered up compared to mine, which doesn't have a mark on it.

 

[justicetyme]

Hostler,
Thanks for the input.
My bolt and bolt carrier are flash (hard) chromed just like yours.
The pictures just aren't true color because of the lighting.
If everything is in spec the hammer hits the rear bolt face very lightly or not at all as the firing pin's forward momentum is stopped when it's nose goes into the primer.
The firing pin spring retracts the firing pin back into the channel so there's no slam fires.
I suspect that "everything" is NOT in spec on my FPC.
But hey, I was the first kid on the block to have one.
Cheers
James

 

[justicetyme]

Through the years I've had pretty good success getting them to send me the parts I need to fix their buggers.
It's a whole lot cheaper to send me a new bolt assembly than to pay to ship the rifle both ways and have someone fix shoddy workmanship.
I'll give them a call Monday and see what transpires.
It's a totally unnecessary repair but in the big picture it very insignificant.
Cheers
James

 

[hostler]

Just comparing the pics of yours to what I see in mine, I think what happened is they pushed the roll pins in from the top hole and didn't push it in all the way until it's flush with the bottom hole. Then maybe the roll pin didn't fully pass completely through the groove in the firing pin.

 

[Maddmax]

Got mine a couple days ago. Did a full fieldstrip, cleaned, lubed and it shoots just fine. Zero issues, everything fits perfect. In fact, it's outstanding.

 

[hostler]

Got mine a couple days ago. Did a full fieldstrip, cleaned, lubed and it shoots just fine. Zero issues, everything fits perfect. In fact, it's outstanding.

How's your charging handle?
Mine is a bear to pull back. Maybe there's a trick or maybe it just needs a little lube, you know, plastic on plastic.

 

[justicetyme]

hostler

Just comparing the pics of yours to what I see in mine, I think what happened is they pushed the roll pins in from the top hole and didn't push it in all the way until it's flush with the bottom hole. Then maybe the roll pin didn't fully pass completely through the groove in the firing pin.

Either that or the retainer pin pin is broken off.
The bottom end of the firing pin only enters into the firing pin channel a few thousands of an inch, just enough to retain the spring and pin t get the gun out the door.

The charge handle is pretty stiff for sure.

Thanks all
Cheers
James

 

[Maddmax]

How's your charging handle?
Mine is a bear to pull back. Maybe there's a trick or maybe it just needs a little lube, you know, plastic on plastic.

Out of the box it was a "bear" to pull back. Did a full cleaning to get rid of the storage lube (I think it's a dry storage lube) and then fresh lube. While I was cleaning, I'd take a little break (watching a movie) and just kept running the charging handle back and forth (with some pressure added) on the slide, that seemed to help quite a bit.

After a full cleaning, lube, inspecting each part and reassembly I just kept working it back and forth with everything (bolt, springs, butt back on, re-installed). Didn't "slingshot" the bolt, just road it back and forth so many times I lost count. With the fresh lube and constant cycling, it did help quite bit. Almost a night and day difference. After more break-in firing, it should ease up even more. But, I think it will be a two finger pull charging handle for a straight even pull back charging. Got to remember, these are brand new and have fresh tooling, tolerances will be at there best on this first run. Good thing in my book. Hope this helped.

NOW FOR EVERYONE ELSE. Best suggestion for everyone. READ THE MANUAL FIRST !!! I don't care how experienced or un-experienced you (think) you are. This is a new "animal" on the block. Seems to have a dry storage lube, SO CLEAN THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF IT WITH A GUN FRIENDLY CLEANER !!! THEN USE A PROPER GUN LUBE MADE FOR WEAPONS !!! NO DICKIN' AROUND WITH MAMBY PAMBY HOMEMADE CLEANERS & LUBES !!! It has different materials through out the whole weapon. It's a Pistol round, Collapsible, Carbine made for short to (extended) medium range use. Think of it as a Full Size M&P on Steroids.

Smith & Wesson did their homework on this one and come out with an OUTSTANDING WEAPON. SO, don't screw it up cutting corners !!!

 

[Maddmax]

Ok, I took an opportunity and tore into the gun a little. My bolt face looks like new, no hammer marks at all, completely flat. It is, unfired though. If the firing pin was just lose, floating in there, I can see how the bolt face may take some abuse from the hammer. The firing pin is definitely spring loaded.

Oh yeah, I wanted to see what the face of the hammer looks like so I let the hammer fall softly with the bolt out of the gun (these things have got the cheesiest little hammers), anyway, if you make the mistake and do this, unless you have ET fingers, you won't be able to reset the hammer by hand. I discovered a trick that I'll share if you need it. It tough to explain so I won't go into it now.

Mine had been test fired. It had a "dirty" oily bolt face, and barrel chamber was a "titch" dirty.

Thought about the trigger, but the manual says NOT to do that and make sure safety is on. Made sense when it comes to reinserting the bolt, slide and springs. Needs a little force getting it in and can/could damage the hammer if it's been pulled and "standing" up.

 

[justicetyme]

Unlike in past years when S&W has sent me parts because this is a new product and they want to see what's going on so it'll be headed back to the factory in a few days.
If I had waited the three weeks before I'll have one that will actually function I would have gotten a better gun and probably at a lower price as they are dropping almost daily.
Cheers
James

 

[Pkupferberg]

Firing pin issues FPC

I recently purchased the FPC. Had no issues the first time at the range. The second time I went, I had failure to fire after about 25 rounds. No impact on the primers. Upon takedown, the firing pin fell out of the bolt. Smith and Wesson had me return firearm to them yesterday. This appears to be a problem with the tiny retaining pin dislodging. I am concerned with reliability in the future. In addition, I anticipate no easy way to remove this firing pin for cleaning given the design of this tiny retaining pin. We shall see.

 

[ETexPops]

Just unboxed the FPC today. Fired 10 rounds with no issues and then refused to fire again. I'm starting to think S&W doesn't like me. I bought a Performance Center Victory that made two trips to the mothership and still wouldn't work. Luckily I found the problem and fixed it. Looks like this brand new gun goes back as well; hope they have developed a fix for this 'cause I don't think I should have to work on a brand new gun...

 

[BSA1]

Did you clean and lube it first?

 

[Dave Lively]

Just unboxed the FPC today. Fired 10 rounds with no issues and then refused to fire again.

I was waiting to see if people had problems with this gun before I bought one. Unfortunately people have been having problems, usually failures to fire like yours. I hope S&W fixes your gun quickly, let us know what the diagnose was when you get it back.

Not sure what is going on but there have been too many reports like this. I really like the FPC on paper but don't feel like rolling the dice and getting one that refuses to fire.

 

[justicetyme]

As I only saw and had mine to examine I can only speak of its issues.
There is little doubt on mine that the firing keeper pin was not properly installed and DID NOT back out from firing (unless it did so from a few factory rounds) as it failed to fire on the first round.
On my gun the retaining pin had just entered the firing pin channel by a few thousands of an inch.

Roll pins are used to keep firing pins and extractors in place in millions of guns so I don't believe that the use of a roll pin to retain the firing pin is the problem.

If I had it to do over knowing what I know now I'd take the bolt out, clean any oil off the retaining pin and channel with break cleaner and compressed air, make sure the roll pin is seated to the proper depth and put a drop of LocTite 243 in both ends of the retaining pin channel, let it dry, reassemble the gun and enjoy shooting it.

I can't imagine how "cleaning and lubing" the gun would have any benefit on an improperly installed roll pin.

Again, I only speak of the problem with MY gun.

Very poor assembly process!!
Cheers
James

 

[Maddmax]

I was waiting to see if people had problems with this gun before I bought one. Unfortunately people have been having problems, usually failures to fire like yours. I hope S&W fixes your gun quickly, let us know what the diagnose was when you get it back.

Not sure what is going on but there have been too many reports like this. I really like the FPC on paper but don't feel like rolling the dice and getting one that refuses to fire.

Mines been running just fine. Got over 800 rounds through it now with no issues. Gets cleaned and inspected after every outing.

 

[Jwhaley77]

I had a very similar experience. Shot about 30 rounds and it stopped firing. Had the gun smith look at the firing pin with me. We cleaned it up and got it free and was able to get it shooting.

Took it back to the range a few days later and after 20 or so rounds it happened again.

This time we investigated further. It seems the area that the hammer is striking the pin is too soft. (Possibly not hardened enough). As the hammer strikes the area, it is actually deforming the metal and causing it to tighten the tolerance for the pin to move freely.

My pin was not moving back and forth, it was basically binded in the area circled from the metal being deformed and causing the hole to shrink

 

[JimYeakel]

FPC failure to fire

I bought the FPC on the 22nd of March. Took it to the range last Wednesday. Fired the 17 round magazine flawlessly. Reloaded with a 23 round magazine and....click. Eject chambered round, chamber another....click. Eject round, swap to 3rd magazine, chamber a round click. Inspect all ejected rounds, no primer strike. My range buddy had a S&W pistol so we tested the ammo and magazines in his pistol. Entire 23 magazine fired. Took the FPC home, field stripped, cleaned, lubed, reassembled. Sent an email to S&W. No response. Went back to the range today and had the same failure to fire, no primer strike issues. Emailed S&W again. Owner's manual states not to take down any further than field stripping (which I suppose is why they don't publish the complete bolt takedown or diagram) so I wouldn't know what to look for being missing or damaged. If I don't get a reply tomorrow after work, I'll call and try to talk to a human. I too, watched all the reviews and was pretty excited about this purchase. Seems like the previous advice I got and ignored about not purchasing a "new model" initial release was correct.

 

[justicetyme]

When you have it field stripped look at the firing pin retaining split / roll pin and make sure it's goes through the firing pin channel and is into the bottom of the firing pin channel .
Push the firing pin in from the rear with a small tool (punch, pin, etc.) and make sure that it moves freely out the front of the bolt and returns into the bolt when pressure is released on the rear of it.
If it isn't properly retained (roll / split pin installed at the correct depth) and if it doesn't move freely that's your problem.
Cheers
James