Any reason the Sports won't last as long as other AR's?

[Mark IV]

The overwhelming consensus seems to be the the M&P Sport AR's are very good bangs-for-the-buck (and in my limited experience with a couple of them, I agree), but is there anything about them that might result in them having shorter lifespans than other "better" AR's ?
A guy on another forum has one back at the mothership, and replaceed it with a PSA, and is planning on selling the S&W when it comes home. He said he didn't think they were constructed to withstand a whole lot of rounds.
There seem to be a lot of happy Sport owners, but I've read of very few with really high round counts.
As I understand, the corners S&W cut with these is on things like a slightly lower grade barrel steel (realistically, not a big deal), and by omitting the forward assist and dust cover (realistically, not a big deal), and by using a nitrocarburising treatment instead of chrome lining the bores (realistically, not a big deal, and according to some, even better).
So, I'm wondering if there are any other, more tangible ways the Sport's construction might result in them having a reduced lifespan, in comparison to more premium rifles ?

 

[WR Moore]

Can't speak to the Sport, but before I retired, we started buying S&W instead of Colt. The S&W ran/run right along with the Colts with a better warranty.

Again, without lengthy trials nitrocarb vs industrial chrome is an unknown issue. Maybe you can keep us advised.

Many of the "differences" are theoretical superiorities with generally minimal differences in the real world. Or at least the real world most of us live in, not drag it through the sand, mud, blood and shoot it till the lube burns off on a daily basis. Even then might not be a significant difference.

I wouldn't regard PSA as "premium". LMT, HK416 and other of that ilk, yeah.

 

[MichiganScott]

They won't last as long because you will be able to afford more ammunition instead of dropping 2K on a boutique model that's basically the same gun.

 

[jdcorbett]

I just bought my first AR and if it lasts as long as my other S&W's I will be very happy. I carry and still shoot a model 59 I bought in the late 1900's.

 

[Plazzman]

If you take care of it, it will out last you.

 

[Disabled1]

My Sport 1 with no dust cover and forward assist has done nothing but chew up any .223/5.56 ammo I have fed it in the 3 years Ive owned it. I know I am into the 4-6K round count and just continue to shoot the BAJEEBUS out of it.
I started to buy a Sport 2 ,but, on the last day at my LGS of renting AR's, the owner added an Ruger AR-556 to the rental supply. I now own one as does my son. The Sport 2 will be around for a long time. Hopefully they will come out with a Sport 3. I know I will have one of those!

 

[jkasch]

A 4150 barrel might last a bit longer. Dunno.

 

[Armybrat]

Sport II $499.99 in stock as of 9:45pm tonight:

https://shop.whittakerguns.com/product/368

I have no affiliation with that dealer and have never bought anything from them... yet. Already have a slick side Sport which is a great value little carbine. I paid $579 plus shipping from GrabAgun two years ago. I'd jump on this one, but our 49th Anniversary is tomorrow, and I'd like to be here for the 50th.

 

[JaPes]

Having been down the AR-15 rabbit hole, I've figured out something. As civilians:

1. Milspec is our base standard. Before you get bent out of shape, read #2.

2. As civilians we can avail ourselves of materials and manufacturing that while not Milspec, can be better than milspec.

3. The ubiquity of the AR-15 (factory complete or parts) means that competition is stiff. Marketing departments will make fantastical claims to make their product stand out above others. Some boutique shops depend on the logical fallacy that price and quality are directly proportionate. Some brand names inflate prices based on brand recognition. Do your best to educate yourself so that you can determine the credibility of manufacturer claims.

4. Educate yourself yet beware the rabbit hole. Building a foundation of background knowledge is an active endeavor. Verify sources. Watch for repeated patterns of information.

5. Beware internet forums. Use your critical thinking skills to assign credibility. I'm just some partially anonymous dude behind a keyboard. This is recreational pastime for me. I am by no means an expert. You don't know me. Treat my advice accordingly. Treat other's advice accordingly.

6. The problem is that most people don't know what they don't know. Learning comes at a real $$$ cost. While I advocate listening to credible advice to save money, I would be a hypocrite. I've been down the rabbit hole and lightened my wallet for my education. Sometimes you just have to something (safely) in order to figure things out for yourself.​

The S&W M&P 15-Sport is a price-point rifle that delivers more quality than its affordable price alludes. Out of the box M&P 15-Sport is a civilian AR-15 that should meet the needs of a wide range of shooting sports enthusiasts. Honestly, upgrade the trigger and top it off with an optic (dot or scope) and you will be good to go.

Are higher priced AR-15's truly worth the money? Sometimes. What you are paying for is the time, expertise, and quality checks put into a rifle. IMO, this occurs at around the $1,700 mark. It definitely occurs at the $3K mark. Most firearms enthusiasts don't have the requisite experience or skill to eke out every minute advantage such a rifle will provide. Most people falsely believe that buy-in price will overcome current attained level of skill. Put an excellent marksman behind the trigger of a 15-Sport and you'll get excellent results. Put a mediocre shooter behind the trigger of a high-price AR-15, and you'll get pitiful results.

Between the $550 - $1,200 price point, most of the rifles are basically the same. The differences are in whether or not you pay up front for everything you'd like on an AR-15 straight out of the box v.s. the slow upgrade process. I know. I turned a $500 M&P 15-Sport V1 into an embarrassingly expensive upgraded rifle by trying multiple sets of furniture and parts.

They won't last as long because you will be able to afford more ammunition instead of dropping 2K on a boutique model that's basically the same gun.

There is truth here.

 

[blues7]

Sport II $499.99 in stock as of 9:45pm tonight:

https://shop.whittakerguns.com/product/368

I have no affiliation with that dealer and have never bought anything from them... yet. Already have a slick side Sport which is a great value little carbine. I paid $579 plus shipping from GrabAgun two years ago. I'd jump on this one, but our 49th Anniversary is tomorrow, and I'd like to be here for the 50th.

Congrats on the anniversary.

Now granted, I'm not a lawyer, but I think you may be able to make the case for a fine firearm...just sayin'...

49TH WEDDING ANNIVERSARY - Luxury Goods

 

[Rick_A]

Compared to other basic AR rifles you're not missing much, and it's better than some.

The only thing missing in upgrading a base or budget AR is re-sale as most discerning buyers can spot that a mile away.

If the gun works and is accurate how much money was spent or which name is on the receiver is largely irrelevant. This needing X or Y brand as a "war rifle" is nonsense.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

As others have already said the short answer is... no.

Also keep in mind that the Sport is a modular rifle. Every major part to pins and springs can be replaced by a zillion different vendors in every possible configuration. It's not proprietary or a firearm that needs to be sent back to the mothership for repair.

I believe 99% of AR owners who buy replacement parts are doing so because they simply wanted something different than what they purchased to begin with. Now THAT is an issue worthy of consideration.

 

[BB57]

JaPes summed it up pretty well.

Mil-spec is what it is, for reasons that often have nothing to do with how a civilian will use it. For example, much noise is made about the vast superiority of 1-7 twist in an M4gery. However, the optimum twist for the military's M855 round was actually 1-9. 1-7 was adopted for standardization purposes on the off chance that troops would need to shoot the much longer M856 tracer round in the M16A2. 1-7 was needed to get the stability required to penetrate a steel pot at 700m. Unfortunately that left the rifling too fast to accurately shoot the 55 grain M193 ball round. That was a windfall for ammo makers as in a mil-spec pen stroke existing ammo stocks became obsolete over night.

Unfortunately, the terminal ballistics of the M855 were not as good in the A2 as M193 was in the A1, due to the lower velocity and shorter ranges at which fragmentation and tumbling would occur. Effectiveness dropped even more once the M4 was adopted with it's 14.7" barrel and even lower velocities.

Now...1-7 isn't bad if you plan on shooting really long bullets at long range, and in a 20" match rifle it's not a bad choice. However 1-7 won't do anything that 1-8 won't do just as well and 1-8 shoots lighter 55 grain bullets much better than a 1-7 twist barrel. In an M4gery, you're far better off with 1-9 twist as it will shoot surplus M855 ball just fine (or most any other bullet in the 62-69 gr range) and it will do much better with 50-55 gr bullets, particularly lower quality surplus or pulled bullets where over stabilization has a much greater negative impact on accuracy.

Similarly, hard chromed bores are great if you will be doing full auto fire with your AR-15 - but unless you have class 3 receiver, that's just not an issue, and even if you do the difference in barrel life isn't that significant, and give the low cost of non chrome AR-15 barrels, you can afford to replace a non chrome barrel twice as often and still come out ahead. There's also a cost for that hard chrome bore in terms of both initial acquisition cost and also in terms of less dimensional accuracy compared to a non chromed bore of similar quality. You just don't see many match rifle shooters advocating for hard chrome bores as they are not associated with maximum accuracy.

You see similar concerns voiced about things like gas keys that are not staked to mil-spec, etc, but those are either strictly theoretical concerns or if a problem occurs it's because screwed for the key weren't properly torqued in the first place.

---

The only potentially valid concern is that only Colt and FN made examples are made to the specific technical data package and the other brands have all ben reverse engineered.

However, it's been made clear over the last quarter century or so that with very few exceptions, they've gotten it right and produce AR-15s that function well.

In effect, when it comes to AR-15s, it is proper assembly that counts and in most cases "parts are parts".

----

I've built a number of AR-15s over the years including a couple for use in tactical rifle matches and a couple more for use in service rifle competition. I've never seen the need to get into seriously high end components, and I've never had any issues with reliability or durability.

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I also like the slick side upper receiver and I never found any real use for the forward assist - other than the "T" in a SPORTS drill. When chambering a round silently, it always made more sense to just use the indentation in the bolt carrier to press the bolt and carrier fully into battery with your thumb.

I do however like a dust cover on my AR-15s, as they do help keep grit out of the upper receiver, but if you're not low crawling, or in a wind strong enough to lift course sand off the ground, it's really not that big of an issue.

 

[geo57]

Hi Mark IV,

I know the site and the guy you are talking about. He has made about 5 different threads / posts about how his Sport " broke ". When I ask him specifically what broke the answer he gives me and the answers he gives to others' questions in regard to this have a tint of odor to them IMO but since some of you know a lot more about AR's and the Sport ( I love mine so far ) than I do I will defer to you.


In this later one pay attention to post #'s 2 & 14 I believe :

Del-Ton Sport or Ruger AR-556 - THR

In this earlier one posts # 9 & 10 specifically :

The PSA AR-15 runs! - THR


He brings up / slams the S&W in several others.

 

[reddog81]

I would guess the biggest difference is in economies of scale. S&W can produce and sell many more AR's than some of the competition. They have large factories and overhead spread across multiple lines. This allows them to sell make each rifle for less money, gives them access to purchase large quantities of material for cheaper, etc.

 

[Rastoff]

5. Beware internet forums. Use your critical thinking skills to assign credibility.

You want people to use thought on a gun forum? Are you insane?

 

[blues7]

You want people to use thought on a gun forum? Are you insane?

Somewhere in a hidden corner of Springfield, MA...

"Any last words?"

"Hang on a second, would ya? I didn't mean that he shouldn't buy it. What I meant was..."

 

[richcory]

First I'd like to clarify that I do not own a S&W AR. I did look hard at them before I bought a Stag 2T & years later added a Rock River R3.

JaPes & BB57 wrote posts that hit it out of the park. I really can't add anything to what they said other than to seriously consider what you want to do with the rifle before you buy it. That can say frustration & money later. If it works for you then it's doing its job. I hope yours does that.

Cory

 

[MichiganScott]

Hi Mark IV,

I know the site and the guy you are talking about. He has made about 5 different threads / posts about how his Sport " broke ". When I ask him specifically what broke the answer he gives me and the answers he gives to others' questions in regard to this have a tint of odor to them IMO but since some of you know a lot more about AR's and the Sport ( I love mine so far ) than I do I will defer to you.


In this later one pay attention to post #'s 2 & 14 I believe :

Del-Ton Sport or Ruger AR-556 - THR

In this earlier one posts # 9 & 10 specifically :

The PSA AR-15 runs! - THR


He brings up / slams the S&W in several others.

Out of curiosity I checked out the links. For the life of me, I can't understand how a PSA can feel "beefier" with "receiver walls much thicker" and not be an accumulation of proprietary parts.

Maybe because I've been in some form of business dealing directly with the public for almost 50 years, I'm more tolerant about some things that occur during the normal practice of business. Still, I just can't understand how anybody expects overnight warranty service when there is a three day holiday weekend involved.

 

[KSDeputy]

Buy what you wish. I buy and own nothing but Colt. It has a chrome lined barrel, and milspec parts, I am quite happy with it.