Apex Carry package

[Dandecoteau]

Proof of gun modifications used in court (found one!) - THR

Here's one.

 

[Dandecoteau]

Its not about "feeling better" but about being more accurate and confident in your ability. And I guarantee those "critical parts" from APEX are of a much higher quality than the mass produced S&W variety. Yes I trust them with my life. The thousands and thousands of satisfied APEX customers would echo these sentiments.

I'm still waiting for somebody to show me a court case where this was a factor in a legitimate self defense and not a ND.

Crickets.......

But if its not for you and you are happy with the stock trigger, awesome. Keep shooting and enjoy your Shield and this great freedom we have! Peace!

NC

You should practice with your gun to make yourself proficient and confident in your ability. Instead of buying something and hoping it makes you shoot better, buy ammo and range time to really improve yourself. I'd be more impressed if you shot good groups with a stock shield instead of a modified one.

 

[southcoast]

Proof of gun modifications used in court (found one!) - THR

Here's one.

Her problem was the shooting was deemed not justified. The altered trigger actually helped her in this case.

 

[DTL]

Proof of gun modifications used in court (found one!) - THR

Here's one.

- Shooting was un-justified
- Lawyer argued defendant didn't mean to shoot dirtbag
- Trigger job was "crudely done". (Apex's kits have been approved by multiple law enforcement agencies for use in duty weapons. Apex has,or had, a list of these agencies on their webpage)

In my opinion, any one of those 3 reasons disqualifies use of the referenced case as precedent.

 

[southcoast]

hy

There have been such cases, but they are usually the civil cases that follow criminal case. You can still lose plenty tho....

Would you please be so kind as to provide actual citations to a couple of these cases. Thanks.

 

[Dandecoteau]

do your research I bet you can find a few cases.

I don't need to because I'm not altering my carry gun so i don't need to worry about it.

 

[NCavi8tor]

do your research I bet you can find a few cases.

I don't need to because I'm not altering my carry gun so i don't need to worry about it.

I bet you can't!! [emoji6]

NC

 

[MSUDawgs]

https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/gun-modifications

light reading.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...houldnt-modify-his-self-defense-guns-trigger/

 

[southcoast]

https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/gun-modifications

light reading.

Why Farago (And You) Shouldn't Modify A Self-Defense Gun's Trigger - The Truth About Guns

Pure speculation by those who profit by putting legal fears into law abiding gun owners. Funny how the Legal Defense Network fails to site any actual cases of self defense cases, not cops. Situations are clearly different for various legal reasons.. The hypothetical logic is no different than gun grabbers claiming all guns should be banned, or concealed carry should be prohibited because one person "may" use it illegally. The irony is they can actually cite to verified examples. The reading is "light" on actual self defense cases.

 

[Dandecoteau]

I bet you can't!! [emoji6]

NC

Can't what exactly?

 

[MSUDawgs]

I think it all has to do with your state. In MS we have the castle doct and can protect our self and family or anyone else that is in life threatens danger. That's not the case in all states. I doubt it would ever go anywhere in MS but some other states it may not fly so straight.
With current times. People sue for anything and everything. I wouldn't want to give someone an angle to explore.
That's just me and I'm happy w the stock pull on my shield. I've dry fired and shot it enough to know it well.
Again, my prior post we just to show some other "expert" logics behind my thought.

Do what you want or feel comfortable with.

 

[Dandecoteau]

Exactly. Practice with your gun to get more proficient. Instead of putting parts in that you hope will make you shoot better.

It's all about practice

 

[southcoast]

I think it all has to do with your state. In MS we have the castle doct and can protect our self and family or anyone else that is in life threatens danger. That's not the case in all states. I doubt it would ever go anywhere in MS but some other states it may not fly so straight.
With current times. People sue for anything and everything. I wouldn't want to give someone an angle to explore.
That's just me and I'm happy w the stock pull on my shield. I've dry fired and shot it enough to know it well.
Again, my prior post we just to show some other "expert" logics behind my thought.

Do what you want or feel comfortable with.

No harm taken. Especially from a fellow Mississippians. That's my state of origin, but have been out now longer than i lived there.

 

[mqqn]

You're going to be waiting a LOOOOONG time. I've yet to see or hear of one, even in the most progressive of areas. A justified shooting is a justified shooting, under the law. Unless you are a prohibited person, or the firearm you used to justifiably defend yourself was stolen, NFA, etc., there's nothing to come after you for.

That's CRIMINALY; Civil action is a different story and has little, to nothing, to do with the former. The dirtbag that forced you to shoot him could have just been out of jail (for the 3rd time) and have restraining orders against him from every family member he has, but they'll still line up in front of the news van and drop all the now-famous catch phrases. "He was such a good boy", "He was going to go back to school", "He was just getting his life together". It happens so often, that those phrases are now in the Urban Dictionary, citing these exact instances we're discussing here.

The bottom line is: Dirtbags will be dirtbags. Know and follow the laws in your area. Train religiously with your equipment and always remember Col. Cooper's most important rule of gunfighting: "Stretch the rules. Always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose"

SANTIBANES v. CITY OF TOMBALL, TEX. | Leagle.com - re: Santibanes vs City of Tombull Texas

Of course since this is an officer involved shooting it will be disregarded out of hand by the internet experts.

Modifying your carry piece from the factory is not a good idea. You have to prepare for not only the defense of your life on the street, but also the defense of your life in court.

Studying things like interlimb reflex, subconscious trigger checks, and even "common custom and practice" will help the uniformed be more aware of what the prosecution is going to throw your way.

It would be interesting to see what trigger pull that S&W specifies for concealed carry pieces.

Colt recommends 6lbs minimum if I recall correctly.

best

mqqn

 

[DTL]

That's a fascinating case, but it doesn't have anything to do with what we're discussing here. Please allow me to elaborate:

Synopsis (for those who don't want to read the whole thing):
Officer stops dirtbags in a pickup. Officer has a ND while exiting his vehicle and hits a dirtbag. Officer's Glock 21 was fitted with a 3.5lb connector, extended slide stop and a modified recoil spring. A Glock Rep. examined the weapon and found that none of the modifications hindered proper functioning of the weapon.

Several issues here:

1) Officer DID NOT intend to shoot dirtbag. On this basis alone, I am of the opinion that this case is not suitable for use as precedent:

summary judgment evidence undeniably establishes that the shooting was an accident. In support, it points to Sergeant Williams' account of what transpired—that he accidentally fired his weapon while simultaneously attempting to exit his patrol vehicle and maintain cover

2) Officer bailed out of his vehicle and drew his weapon while it was STILL MOVING:

Sergeant Williams recalls that his weapon discharged only after placing his left hand on the steering wheel and only after his left foot was on the ground in the course of his attempt to exit his patrol vehicle. However, as noted, the video clearly shows that his weapon discharged before his patrol vehicle had come to a complete stop.

Several things went wrong in this shooting, the least of which (in my opinion) was a lightened trigger pull. The officer attempting to exit the vehicle, (with his finger on the trigger, obviously) while it was still in motion was undoubtedly the main cause of his ND. Ultimately, from what I gathered in the summary, the only "Fault" was found to be with the City, for training Re: proper stop procedures. Other than one brief note with a footnote, the weapon's modifications are never mentioned again. The Officer repeatedly states that he did not intend to shoot dirtbag.

Make of that what you will.

 

[southcoast]

SANTIBANES v. CITY OF TOMBALL, TEX. | Leagle.com - re: Santibanes vs City of Tombull Texas

Of course since this is an officer involved shooting it will be disregarded out of hand by the internet experts.

Modifying your carry piece from the factory is not a good idea. You have to prepare for not only the defense of your life on the street, but also the defense of your life in court.

Studying things like interlimb reflex, subconscious trigger checks, and even "common custom and practice" will help the uniformed be more aware of what the prosecution is going to throw your way.

It would be interesting to see what trigger pull that S&W specifies for concealed carry pieces.

Colt recommends 6lbs minimum if I recall correctly.

best

mqqn

Aside from the fact that this was a cop and not a carry concealed self defense situation, the shooter claimed the shooting was accidental. This is not an intentional self defense shooting by a concealed carry civillian.

 

[southcoast]

Ther is no dispute that modifying a trigger can produce legal issues for a cop or other law enforcement. The question is rather the impact on a carry concealed civillian in an actual self defense shooting. There the modified trigger is irrelevant in a justified shooting. There are no actual cases showing otherwise for many legal reasons which anyone with a basic comprehension of the law would understand.

 

[DTL]

OP, sorry your thread has devolved into a CCW argument. You all deserve some gun porn, hastily snapped from my phone.

In between a couple friends is my M&P45. As evidenced by the goofed up finish, I carry it nearly every day. Far more than any other pistol I own. To put it bluntly: I beat that thing like a rented mule. It has Dawson Precision sights, grip tape, Apex DCAEK and alloy trigger (pull is right at 4.5lbs but still long compared to the other 2), the magazine safety has been removed and I removed the rear "duck tail" because it poked me in the ribs and didn't do anything for my accuracy. I love that gun. It's the only poly-framed gun I like. I show it affection by letting it take all the abuse I don't want heaped on its two prettier sisters in that picture (and some others).

 

[Jagrmaister]

Got my new Shield in 9mm
Dec 2014 build date.
I shot it great out of the box.
Added A Talon rubber grip.

Those of you that have put the APEX spring kit in, My question is.
Does it really make A noticeable difference in smoothness?

Or should I just run A good amount of rds thru it to see how the trigger smoothes out?

This is going to be my carry gun once I spend more range time with it.

Thanks

If you're fine with it as-is, leave it be. I put in the APEX kit because I was spoiled by the Comp kit in my full size. Carry kits in my 40C and Shield .40, wouldn't have it any other way personally.

 

[Dandecoteau]

If you have a modified self defense gun, I'm not saying they're going to throw out the case, I'm simply saying that you will probably go through a lot more questioning and harassment than normal in court. Id rather not be questioned like a criminal.

And just because we can't find any cases, doesn't mean there aren't any.
I sure would hate for me or anyone on here to be the first case where it actually mattered enough for the outcome of the case to be different.

Anyways, keep this argument going, it's interesting.
And we need more gun porn in this thread. I'm in the mood for a picture of a 5906.