Appropriate Response To Being Threatened With A Taser

I'm kind of frustrated that I can't find the report in our database at work because there are some questions that I can't answer without reading it again and some that aren't answered in it. I will look today again and try to get more detail but I want to stress that this was just an example.

My question was more in some other situation if you were threatened by a Taser (and again I specify "Taser" because that's what the report said) would you consider it to be a deadly threat?

I also want to point out that in the example above the guard initiated the encounter and I'm sure he did so at some distance where if the guy with the taser initiated the encounter I would think he'd try to get closer to you.
 
Some folks have also asked why this was considered a deadly force incident. In Colorado if you so much as place your hand on your weapon or even verbally indicate that you are armed it is considered aggravated menacing unless it's justified self defense. So in the incident I used in my example the guard would have been guilty of a felony except for the Taser. That's why the company reviewed the incident.

One of the things that my employer stresses with the armed guards is that if you are in some minor confrontation at work (like a client employee forgot their ID card and is upset because you can't just let them in) is to be very aware of your body language and don't even put your hand near your gun (like how some people put their hands on their hips when they get upset) because the employee might consider it a threat.
 
In all seriousness, yes. If confronted by someone threatening me with a Taser I would consider it a deadly threat. Once I'd been tasered, the aggressor has access to my CCW, wallet and whatever else I had.

Just recently, a dude playing the "Knockout Game" attempted to use a Taser on a man at a bus stop. The man felt the taser "click", but due to heavy clothes the effect was lessoned. He drew his CCW and shot the dude. After the dude was in the hospital, he admitted he had done this 7 or 8 times before.
 
Smoke said:
... So in the incident I used in my example the guard would have been guilty of a felony except for the Taser. That's why the company reviewed the incident.
Click to expand...

Actually, he wouldn't "have been guilty" of anything until arrested, tried and found guilty. And of course, that's not an issue here because he's being threatened by a person committing what I suspect is a felony in Colorado (unlawful entry plus dangerous weapon threatening [taser]).

Sounds to me like this security company has had a bad history of hiring too many gung-ho employees that put the company at risk. So now they're over-emphasizing the "Don't touch your gun butt or you're guilty of a felony" stuff.

I spent just a little time on LexisNexis this morning trying to find that Colorado "touch your gun" law and didn't find it. If anyone knows the specific title:section, please post the reference so I can look at it in more detail.

I don't like this idea, Smoke, of your employer calling you on the carpet every time you touch your gun. We don't need to be pulling guns on employees who forgot their ID cards, of course. But I'd sure rather see them empower you to use common sense and human intelligence when reacting to things in the field instead of treating you like cannon fodder to keep their liability exposure reduced.


Sgt Lumpy
 
SgtLumpy said:
I spent just a little time on LexisNexis this morning trying to find that Colorado "touch your gun" law and didn't find it. If anyone knows the specific title:section, please post the reference so I can look at it in more detail.
Click to expand...

Answering my own question -

I suppose "Menacing" CRS - 18-3-206 would apply to the "touch your gun" as well as something similar but verbal. A class 5 felony. -

(b)"By the person representing verbally or otherwise that he or she is armed with a deadly weapon."

All of which would, of course, clearly be an affirmative defense when confronted by an intruder with a taser. I haven't found specific case law declaring a taser a deadly weapon in CO, but there is CO case law declaring a BB gun a deadly weapon.

In any case, Smoke, get a job that treats you as an intelligent adult.


Sgt Lumpy
 
Looking at your photos, I have to wonder what a homeless vagrant was doing way out in the middle of nowhere? How did he get there?
 
A person would have to be stupid to charge a armed man with a taser when armed man has a pistol pointed at him. If that ever happened to me I would think you would be justified to shoot as such a fool no doubt once he tased you he will take your gun and probley shoot you and ultimately others. I believe a jury would believe that too. Would be the same if it was a knife instead of a taser. I never had similar done in 35 years as a guard.
 
ColbyBruce said:
Looking at your photos, I have to wonder what a homeless vagrant was doing way out in the middle of nowhere? How did he get there?
Click to expand...

Different facilty.

Having said that you would be surpried at how far homeless people travel a lot of them head south in the winter
 
SgtLumpy said:
In any case, Smoke, get a job that treats you as an intelligent adult.


Sgt Lumpy
Click to expand...

I preffer keeping the job where they leave me the cow flops alone. Today makes 3 days this week that there is no one here but me and the foxes.

I understand what you're saying but I feel like I have pretty good gig for security most of the time I don't have to deal with the company politics, they don't want to drive all the way out here to check on me so the leave me (us ) alone. all the guys I supervise like it that way and we go don't draw attention to ourselves.
 
I read a few of the posts above after I posted. I would like to say, maybe legally a taser aint lethal but I would also think that most normal people would assume that if someone is nuts enough to charge a armed guard with a taser, we would also assume the nut is going to take the incapacitated guards gun when he is down and helpless. On my guard job I also had assignments far out in the desert working all night by myself guarding stuff. On those assignments I was in civilian cloths. It was a different world though as my outfit didnt want to be identified with what I was guarding plus indirectly the federal government paid my company to pay me.
I cant think of another business that could have more potential libel problems than owning a contract security company. I had a friend years ago that wanted me to start up one with him. I wouldnt touch it. Its one thing working inhouse security for a major defense plant that will back you than working for a small contract outfit. I have done both but did 35 years for my company with no legal problems for anything I got involved in. For people that dont know what I mean, there are two types of guard or security jobs. "In house and contract". "In house" is guards that are paid directly by the company that they guard like Ford, Boeing, or whatever. Contract security is a guard company that will send you to everything from a topless bar to maybe stores or whatever. In my experience if your going to be a guard, go with a large company with in house security. They typically pay the same benifits, holidays, retirement, vacations, 401K`s etc as their regular employees. I doubt any contract outfit can began to match In House.
 
Smoke said:
My question was more in some other situation if you were threatened by a Taser (and again I specify "Taser" because that's what the report said) would you consider it to be a deadly threat?

I also want to point out that in the example above the guard initiated the encounter and I'm sure he did so at some distance where if the guy with the taser initiated the encounter I would think he'd try to get closer to you.
Click to expand...

Smoke, I see in your sig. that you are a former EMT. I don't know what you have seen or not seen, but I have seen the results of tasers.

A taser drawn, is a lethal or deadly threat. I have seen the worst results 2 times. Does death occur every time? No. I have seen a guy paralyzed for life because of the area he was hit/damaged nerves.

Our local Sheriff's department issues tazers. If a Deputy is to carry a tazer, not required, they have to be tazered to be able to carry. Before being tazered, the Deputies HAVE to have a physical, if approved by the doctor, the training commences. Not sure I would want to be tazered.

I would draw my weapon and demand the man drop the tazer. I would not give him but a second and I would fire. And no I do not believe in warning shots. My understanding, tazers legal in Washington, have a colored light (I've seen green and yellow) that comes on before the tazer actually releases the darts. If I saw those lights, my finger would be pulling the trigger.
 
You arm chair quarterbacks are great at giving advice. I wonder how many of you have ever been in a possible deadly force situation. the guy did a great job, everyone went home safe.
 
I absolutely do regard a threat with a Taser a threat of deadly force and do not take such threats lightly. I have been "tased" and can articulate that, while riding the lightning, and for several seconds immediately after, I was incapacitated and completely vulnerable to attack. Based on my training and experience, I would react to a threat with a Taser the same as I would a threat with a gun or knife - gun drawn, prepared to shoot if he doesn't comply with my commands.
 
Last edited:
Employment policy semantics aside, any time a potentially violent situation can be defused without out harm to those involved seems to be prudent. That said, my concern would be with the next confrontation the taser-carrying vagrant is involved in ... perhaps the first responder will not be as lucky, or perhaps an innocent civilian will be victimized.
 
After reading this thread I am amazed at how many people were so quick to armchair that they failed to read the original post. It's truly laughable.

Here's my contribution:
Smoke should have never fired his mini gun at the fairy godmother that was trying to take unauthorized pictures of and wave her wand menacingly at his badgers. It was against country club rules and he'll likely be barred for it. Instead he should have called the FBI and let them take care of it whilst consuming a Dr. Pepper inside his Superman phone booth. They all lived happily ever after.
 
forrestinmathews said:
After reading this thread I am amazed at how many people were so quick to armchair that they failed to read the original post. It's truly laughable.

Here's my contribution:
Smoke should have never fired his mini gun at the fairy godmother that was trying to take unauthorized pictures of and wave her wand menacingly at his badgers. It was against country club rules and he'll likely be barred for it. Instead he should have called the FBI and let them take care of it whilst consuming a Dr. Pepper inside his Superman phone booth. They all lived happily ever after.
Click to expand...

OF COURSE! I see it all so clearly now! I've been such a fool! :D
 
forrestinmathews said:
After reading this thread I am amazed at how many people were so quick to armchair that they failed to read the original post. It's truly laughable.

Here's my contribution:
Smoke should have never fired his mini gun at the fairy godmother that was trying to take unauthorized pictures of and wave her wand menacingly at his badgers. It was against country club rules and he'll likely be barred for it. Instead he should have called the FBI and let them take care of it whilst consuming a Mountain Dew inside his Superman phone booth. They all lived happily ever after.
Click to expand...

There fixed it for you :D
 
Was this Taser, the kind that has wires and fires darts, or a stun gun that must be placed on ones body to have any effect? A stun gun can be had for about 15 bucks, but a Taser is , what? several hundred? If it was a Taser and a vagrant had it, it was most probably stolen. Yes, it is best to have every body remain un harmed, but this just smells fishy to me.
 
poordevil said:
Was this Taser, the kind that has wires and fires darts, or a stun gun that must be placed on ones body to have any effect?
Click to expand...

As stated earlier, I wasn't there the report specified a Taser


poordevil said:
A stun gun can be had for about 15 bucks, but a Taser is , what? several hundred? If it was a Taser and a vagrant had it, it was most probably stolen. Yes, it is best to have every body remain un harmed, but this just smells fishy to me.
Click to expand...

What smells fishy?
 
As a uniformed municipal police officer, I have been instructed that the snatching of my taser justifies the use of lethal force. When the probes hit, there is a minimum five second ride. If the trigger is held back, the ride continues until the trigger is released or the battery dies. What this means is that anybody who is tased is completely incapacitated. Anybody who is completely incapacitated and armed will likely have his sidearm snatched too. When the sidearm is snatched, you can expect that it will not be used for show and tell. I guess we can argue all day long about how what pertains to the police may or may not pertain to private security personnel or the rest of the citizenry. I am simply relaying what has been taught to me and whether or not it pertains to you will depend on how articulate or persuasive your attorney happens to be.

Dave Sinko
 
WC145 said:
I absolutely do regard a threat with a Taser a threat of deadly force and do not take such threats lightly. I have been "tased" and can articulate that, while riding the lightning, and for several seconds immediately after, I was incapacitated and completely vulnerable to attack. Based on my training and experience, I would react to a threat with a Taser the same as I would a threat with a gun or knife - gun drawn, prepared to shoot if he doesn't comply with my commands.
Click to expand...

From the LEO point of view, I agree completely. AND seeing as how may Tasers are black and resemble a firearm, I'm NOT going to take the time to guess: "Firearm or Taser?"
 
Smoke said:
First Picture is where I work second is the biggest threat I've run into in 4 years out there
Click to expand...

My goodness man they may have nibbled your shoe laces off and you lost balance and broken your neck.

Man, those are cute.


My response to a stun gun (not a taser) if I'm armed and there's good distance and my hand's already on my weapon? Probably a smirk and girlish giggle if I had to be honest. lol.


He definitely did the right thing to be ready to use his weapon if that's what you're asking. Whether stun gun or taser they are all weapons and he could have been disabled and killed. I won't get into calling the cops or not, I'll treat that as a constraint on the question, but he definitely needed to get control of the situation in some way.

I probably would have done the same thing (not the movie phrase, but putting hand on weapon and ordering him to lose the gun and get off the property), even though it has its flaws. Pulling the gun is a whole other level of engagement beyond being prepared to do it. IMO if you are so bad off you need to unholster it you probably need to pull the trigger. If I were a LEO id' have likely drawn my weapon, but even in gun friendly Kentucky brandishing a weapon as a civilian steps up the amount of questions you may have to answer significantly.
 
Last edited:
As far as not calling the police - it sounds to me like a case of not calling the place for situations where by the time the police arrive there will be nothing for them to do as the trespasser is already gone - or as they arrive he hightails it out of there - etc - and if it happens too many times in a month then the client get a bill from the police department.

About 10 years ago I had a motion alarm at my house set off several times in one day and I had neglected to update the phone number on file with the alarm company so they could not get contact me. The police were dispatched to my house three times. I also had a shattered rear patio door at the time. Turns out the alarm was set off by a helium balloon that was a few days old and the air current from the heating system. I received a bill from the city for something like $50. I expect that might be a lot higher today for a business location.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

olfart
MORE Tales from the East Texas Outback
Replies
12
Views
881
Major 2
Major 2
O
A Deadly Case of Mistaken Identity
Replies
5
Views
1K
Rudi
R
Doug M.
A hard lesson from John Farnam
2
Replies
48
Views
4K
Eddie Southgate
Eddie Southgate
Kinman
Big Brother?
2 3
Replies
66
Views
3K
Doug M.
Doug M.
pharmer
Last of 2024 Lakeland Gunshow Report
Replies
2
Views
492
turnerriver
turnerriver

Latest posts

Back
Top