Are firearm accessories like this really necessary?

[johngalt]

...If the opponents are so dead set on "doing something" well then let's use a little negotiations jujitsu. I would be glad to put bump stocks on the class 3 list (thus no ban, just more paperwork and tax i.e. costs) in exchange for national recognition of state issued CW permits. Straight up deal. Would you take it? I would. Great deal for tens of thousand gun owners and carriers for the reclassification of something that is in all reality a novelity item.

I think your point on compromise is one of our sticking points. The banners define 'compromise' as take a little today, then come back for the rest tomorrow. They NEVER offer up anything in return. Why should we give any ground?

I've never seen the shotgun magazine thing, but other than being unwieldy I don't know of possible other downsides.

For the record, I think those bump stock things are one of the most idiotic inventions ever made. I've only once seen one used in person. They are designed to spray inaccurate fire, so are unsafe. My old club in Ohio would never allow them. I saw it used once in Indiana, but I don't know if he was told to never bring it back.

I'm not ready to jump on the "ban 'em" bandwagon on principle. We always say that guns don't commit crimes, people do. Are we now changing our tune? That just opens us up to claims of "well, you were ok with banning bump stocks, why not ...". I'm also concerned that a vaguely written law could have lots of consequences for work such as trigger jobs.

I think you are right, in that if we decide we have to 'compromise', we should hold out something in return. I would prefer to be able to buy a firearm out of state and take it with me, rather than shipping it to an FFL.

 

[Arik]

Japan would be prime pickings for China, or NK without our support. The people are unarmed, so an invasion would sweep them. While guns were not outlawed in England during WW2 the country has never been a gun country. Again without us, and Russia they would have been eventually invaded.

I'm not talking about international relations. I'm talking about a country disarming their people for the purpose of killing/enslaving those deemed subhuman

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[Walkingwolf]

I'm not talking about international relations. I'm talking about a country disarming their people for the purpose of killing/enslaving those deemed subhuman

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The second amendment is not just about our government tyranny, it is about tyranny foreign, or domestic. During the time of drafting, and passing the constitution the people were the defenders of the nation. Adult males, but in this day it would include women also. The founders counted on the people to defend the nation during an invasion. Most of the western countries(west of former soviet block) count on the US in the case of invasion. Except for one country, and adults are required in that country to have a firearm. They do have restrictions on the ammo for those weapons, but they still count on the militia to provide defense. That same country is being invaded by people who have increased crime dramatically. They may have to rethink allowing the militia to keep ammo to their rifles.

 

[Arik]

The second amendment is not just about our government tyranny, it is about tyranny foreign, or domestic. During the time of drafting, and passing the constitution the people were the defenders of the nation. Adult males, but in this day it would include women also. The founders counted on the people to defend the nation during an invasion. Most of the western countries(west of former soviet block) count on the US in the case of invasion. Except for one country, and adults are required in that country to have a firearm. They do have restrictions on the ammo for those weapons, but they still count on the militia to provide defense. That same country is being invaded by people who have increased crime dramatically. They may have to rethink allowing the militia to keep ammo to their rifles.

I understand that. You missed the point

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[Walkingwolf]

I understand that. You missed the point

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Actually I think you missed the point of the second amendment. Defense of the country IS what the second is about, and that includes foreign invasions.

 

[Arik]

Actually I think you missed the point of the second amendment. Defense of the country IS what the second is about, and that includes foreign invasions.

My original point from yesterday.

Everything automatically being compared to Hitler and Stalin.

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[cmort666]

I'm not talking about international relations. I'm talking about a country disarming their people for the purpose of killing/enslaving those deemed subhuman

You mean like the Koreans in Japan after the 1923 Great Kanto earthquake?

 

[cmort666]

My original point from yesterday.

Everything automatically being compared to Hitler and Stalin.

My original point from yesterday.

History doesn't stop being history because it gives you the sads.

Similar urges to disarm their potential victims aren't negated because they make you uncomfortable.

And notice NOBODY refuting that the victims of modern gun control have WAY less freedom than do we.

If you don't believe me, ask a Brit or German who speaks out on immigration policy after his or her child is killed by a bomb or a truck. Ask the victims of Rotherham and their families.

 

[oneounceload]

Originally Posted by Kevin J. View Post
...To the others that thought the earlier post by Beamer was about appeasment or giving in. I think you missed the point. It was about intelligence. If the opponents are so dead set on "doing something" well then let's use a little negotiations jujitsu. I would be glad to put bump stocks on the class 3 list (thus no ban, just more paperwork and tax i.e. costs) in exchange for national recognition of state issued CW permits. Straight up deal. Would you take it? I would. Great deal for tens of thousand gun owners and carriers for the reclassification of something that is in all reality a novelity item.

The anti-gunners have NO desire to compromise on any issue they hold so dear as disarming those who disagree with them. This is the ancient "Death by a 1000 cuts" modality. Take a little here, then a little more there. Have those antis ever given up on ANYTHING? Have they given up their media lies that are non-stops because there is no balance? Alinsky, Soros, Clinton, Feinstein et al have NO desire for this battle to be about anything else except them winning.

 

[Walkingwolf]

My original point from yesterday.

Everything automatically being compared to Hitler and Stalin.

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Britain tried to disarm the colonials before the revolutionary war. You seem to have a sensitive issue to history. Hitler, and Stalin are only two examples. The current reliance on the US for protection may have resulted from world wars, but it still exists today. Sweden is one of the few western nations that does not. They rely on their citizen militia.

 

[Arik]

Britain tried to disarm the colonials before the revolutionary war. You seem to have a sensitive issue to history. Hitler, and Stalin are only two examples. The current reliance on the US for protection may have resulted from world wars, but it still exists today. Sweden is one of the few western nations that does not. They rely on their citizen militia.

I don't have any issues with them. If you read Cmorts posts this topic is ALWAYS brought up when he posts. Go back a year or two. Never fails. If he posts it's 99% guarantee to have that

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[cmort666]

I don't have any issues with them. If you read Cmorts posts this topic is ALWAYS brought up when he posts. Go back a year or two. Never fails. If he posts it's 99% guarantee to have that

Clearly you believe that like actions shouldn't be compared.

Clearly you believe that some truths shouldn't be told.

WHY, is NOT so clear...

 

[Walkingwolf]

I don't have any issues with them. If you read Cmorts posts this topic is ALWAYS brought up when he posts. Go back a year or two. Never fails. If he posts it's 99% guarantee to have that

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Does it relate to the subject at hand? From what I have seen it does. It appears you want to move the goal posts so you do not lose a debate. It is like putting your finger in your ears, and singing Henry the Eighth I am.

 

[cmort666]

Does it relate to the subject at hand? From what I have seen it does. It appears you want to move the goal posts so you do not lose a debate. It is like putting your finger in your ears, and singing Henry the Eighth I am.

When two entities engage in the SAME behaviors, and somebody rails against a comparison, you have to wonder why.

Usually there are two reasons:

1. The comparison is too apt for their comfort and damages a cherished narrative.
2. They have an ox that's about to get gored.

In any case, whenever somebody says, "You shouldn't say 'X'", while refusing to actually say WHY you shouldn't say "X", you're usually onto something.

Self-censorship is EXACTLY what the lying sociopaths of the anti-gun cult want.

 

[jimmyj]

I want all the firepower I can get !
HOWEVER, My Mommy won't let me have any of the neat toys.

***(PLEASE don't let Mom and the Forum Administrators know I have a "GLOCK")

 

[Muss Muggins]

The difference (in my opinion, a significantly huge difference) between the United States and all of the other countries and incidents cited in this ongoing argument is this: Only the United States of America has the Second Amendment. None of the others had anything close . . .

IBTL ! ! !

 

[TomkinsSP]

How does that license/permit make me safe?



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Geeeesh! Because crazed lunatics bent upon committing mass murder will not violate the law and carry an unregistered firearm, they won't shoot at you from a hotel window without written permission from management. Muggers won't carry consealed without a permit. Armed robbers and terrorists respect those "No Guns Allowed" sign on the door. In twenty plus years of police work the one thing I learned was that you can ALWAYS count on criminals doing is to OBEY THE LAW.

Don't you know nuthin?

And as an added bonus, since everyone (well except law abiding citizens (aka those who don't agree with us politically)) obeys the law. We never have to enforce them, just create new ones as knee jerk reactions. Complicated problem, meet simple solution.

 

[cmort666]

Geeeesh! Because crazed lunatics bent upon committing mass murder will not violate the law and carry an unregistered firearm, they won't shoot at you from a hotel window without written permission from management. Muggers won't carry consealed without a permit. Armed robbers and terrorists respect those "No Guns Allowed" sign on the door. In twenty plus years of police work the one thing I learned was that you can ALWAYS count on criminals doing is to OBEY THE LAW.

Don't you know nuthin?

And as an added bonus, since everyone (well except law abiding citizens (aka those who don't agree with us politically)) obeys the law. We never have to enforce them, just create new ones as knee jerk reactions. Complicated problem, meet simple solution.

If registration and bans are so effective, you have to wonder why nobody ever thought to require that all sales of opioid drugs be registered, and unlicensed sellers be prosecuted...

 

[Walkingwolf]

The difference (in my opinion, a significantly huge difference) between the United States and all of the other countries and incidents cited in this ongoing argument is this: Only the United States of America has the Second Amendment. None of the others had anything close . . .

IBTL ! ! !

Czech Lawmakers have passed legislation in the lower parliament that would see the right to bear firearms enshrined in the country's constitution in a move directed against tighter regulations from the European Union.



The legislation was passed with 139 deputies agreeing to the amendment to the constitution with only nine deputies voting against. The amendment will now be considered by the Czech Senate where it will require a supermajority of three-fifths of the members in order to pass into law, Die Presse reports.



Similar to the U.S. second amendment to the Constitution, which gives Americans the right to keep and bear arms, the Czech legislation reads: "Citizens of the Czech Republic have the right to acquire, retain and bear arms and ammunition."



The amendment also notes that the right is there to ensure the safety of the country, similar to the provision of a "well-regulated militia" in the American amendment.

I think the difference is our culture, and that years prior to the anti gun shift most courts ruled favorably towards gun rights. Many people are working to change that culture, not just ban guns. They have succeeded in many ways. Guns used in movies are used in a manner to bring fear to the people. Some people with influence use their status to shame guns. Even though many are protected by people with guns.

1921 our gun rights were sealed by the NC Supreme court in State V Kerner. If not for that ruling we would be at the mercy of the legislature. Today would probably be a very different ruling.

 

[TomkinsSP]

So have England, Australia, Japan, become totalitarian?
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No they were, and they still are. We are not and with luck and grace never will become.