Modified
Member
Err, pretty sure the highway patrolman started in the mid 1950s.
Should be nearly 15 years of production of them with diamond grips.
Are "S" serial guns really better than "N" serial guns?
- Thread starter G-Mac
- Start date
Err, pretty sure the highway patrolman started in the mid 1950s.
Should be nearly 15 years of production of them with diamond grips.
Mythalogically, of course older is better than newer.
There are lots of emotional reasons. . . .They don't make them like that any more. . . .The company started going to heck when they changed/deleted/added ???????. . . .Etc.
Is number S333454 better than N1? Of course not (I do not know the models or embellishments of either number, so one might be worth more). Just like number 4321 is not better than number 5234. S and N were just digits in the serial serial number, not an announcement of a production/design/feature change of any kind
Now might era "A" be better than era "B" . . . Yes, but generally that is not designated by the day a serial number change was implemented
Much of the reason that buyers think that old is better than new is because the old ones do not have problems. Well there was no Internet in 1957 we passed the stories around the water cooler, over a coffee or a beer. 10 million people did not get to hear one customer yelling that he was wronged. Of course the old ones had problems. The things that were wrong with that 1950s revolver had been fixed by the Factory years before many of us were born. So we see them as trouble free.
That being said, I love serial numbers and would be thrilled to own either S333454 or N1
As others have said you already made the case to keep both firearms.
If you do not need the cash or have no place to put the money to grow, Keep both.
5 years down the road both will be worth more than they are today and they will have appreciated more than a savings account would have paid you plus you get to enjoy them in the meantime
OP
my 6" S-serial 28-2 came with diamond targets.
BKLooney
Member
Don't slaughter one of the herd unless you have to do so to eat! 
Modified
Member
I think it is worth noting that "emotion" is pretty much why we have these guns at all isn't it?
The only two guns I actually "use" is a J-Frame for concealed carry, and I upgraded my outdoor carry from a revolver to an HK running .45 Super.
It's not that I couldn't hike with my nice S&Ws, but I don't. They see range time, but are nothing other than pleasurable luxuries at this point.
As such, why not have the guns you find you have the largest emotional connection to? If a gun doesn't "Spark Joy" (as my wife's TV show lady says), it goes on the chopping block to make way for a gun that does. BUT. The key there is the second line. Sometimes I wish I had some guns that are gone, but then I look at the guns that they made way for and that feeling evaporates.
In this case, if I am going to weigh in on thinning the herd: Only part with the 4" if it's for the express purpose of acquiring a gun you like more. If the S pleases you, don't part with it unless its in pursuit of a 4" S.
Or unless you are gearing up for the big jump to something like a 3.5" or 5" Model 27, or a Registered Magnum.
This is an excellent point that feeds into the current mythology around the S Range guns.
The service department was excellent, and a gun repaired by them may very well be extra nice. My experience with their work (honestly the main thing I look for in old Smiths now), has been phenomenal.
Hair Trigger
US Veteran
There is 15 years of HP production prior to 1968, but the guns had an "S" prefix. LostintheOzone clarified his statement saying the "N" prefix started in '68.
I only have two "S" prefix N frames (both near the end of the series, 1967 and 1968), their finish seems about equal to the "N" prefix guns I have that were made in the '70s. The absolute best finish gun I own is a blued M27-2 from 1977 (shipped 2/78) . To me, the "S" prefix is just another feature to look for, along with P&R, lazy ampersand, 4 or 5 screw, diamond stocks, etc., that signify a particular era. I do believe, however, that the pinnacle of S&W quality was from the late 1950's to the early 1980's.
jay72
Member
For the model 29's that I have owned, the S prefix
were superior than the N prefix guns.
were superior than the N prefix guns.
I gravitate toward pre-1969 S-prefix N frames with factory diamond magna or target stocks. But I do have one N-prefix, a 1974-ish 3.5" Model 27 shooter wearing Bear Hug stocks.
PauldL
Member
Bingo!
I have very little experience but, I would certainly echo what Doc says
Two very good examples of the 27-2 I have that one being an N & the other an S
To me, it's just exactly what Doc said.
The polish on my S is better than my N
But, that's in no way at all saying the N isn't good
They're both incredibly nice and it's hard to tell the difference unless you really look
3.5" S
6" N
http://[url=https://postimg.cc/mzhtZL1T]
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If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand.
For me there's no real difference between S and N serial numbered, three screw guns. I do, however, prefer guns that are old enough to have come with Diamond grips, which could be S or early N guns, but it's not a deal breaker.
Lol, I get it. They are a mechanical work of art. My only point was its a "big" gun for a .357.
Also, if while inspecting the serial number inside the frame it happens to say 28-1, it is clearly defective. Send it to me and I will properly dispose of it......
Read my post again. The N series 28 didn't start in the mid 50's.
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So did my S series 28-2. What's your point?
OP
That it didn't come with diamond magnas. Which I would think are more common to a Highway Patrolman. But, since I bought it at a gun show, no box or other goodies, I have no idea how it came originally.
SuperMan
Member
I'll third what Doc said.....that said...
I didn't live far from the factory in the 1960s and 70s... Back then one could bring your gun right up to the front door and a very very nice LONG time employee would take your gun, analyze the problem and might just ask you to wait for it to be taken care of.
Had several conversations with the gentleman and a few of the things I remember were that:
Many of the long time craftsmen were starting to retire
Because of federal contracts, the company was under pressure to hire as many minorities as possible...some of whom were not trainable...
Under Bangor Punta, which acquired S&W from the S&W family in 1965, the push for quantity over quality was taking over...
Had these conversations with the gentleman in the early to mid-1970s. By the mid 70s the CS area had been moved out of the main building to a building outside the main gated area because of government security requirements according to the gentleman. The last time I was there was in 1976 and he had retired.
Have owned several dozen blue and nickel K and N frame Smiths made from the early 1950s to the mid-1980s... Although from a distance they look the same, set a mid 1960s K or N frame down next to a mid-1970s gun and you will see the difference in the finish...
Bob
I didn't live far from the factory in the 1960s and 70s... Back then one could bring your gun right up to the front door and a very very nice LONG time employee would take your gun, analyze the problem and might just ask you to wait for it to be taken care of.
Had several conversations with the gentleman and a few of the things I remember were that:
Many of the long time craftsmen were starting to retire
Because of federal contracts, the company was under pressure to hire as many minorities as possible...some of whom were not trainable...
Under Bangor Punta, which acquired S&W from the S&W family in 1965, the push for quantity over quality was taking over...
Had these conversations with the gentleman in the early to mid-1970s. By the mid 70s the CS area had been moved out of the main building to a building outside the main gated area because of government security requirements according to the gentleman. The last time I was there was in 1976 and he had retired.
Have owned several dozen blue and nickel K and N frame Smiths made from the early 1950s to the mid-1980s... Although from a distance they look the same, set a mid 1960s K or N frame down next to a mid-1970s gun and you will see the difference in the finish...
Bob
An old saying comes to mind..."i'm from the government and I'm here to help." Thank you for your first hand experience with S&W of old.
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El Juero
Member
The concept, or question, of "better" and "more desirable" are separate questions which may or may not be mutually exclusive. The question you posed is based on deductive reasoning that generally an S model is "better", (which is not well defined) and would thus impact your evaluation that your S Model 28 is "better" than your N model.
The flaw in this deductive reasoning logic is that within the generalization of either S or N models are that any specific specimen could range from higher or lower criteria standards within their respective populations. The word "generally" means to "generalize" that the "analysis/opinion" of the group will apply to all of the specimens within the group, which is always a problem. Does the most perfectly completed N model rate better than one of the poorer executed S models? As well, criteria for evaluation such as does the exterior finish outweigh the internal fitting of parts and components complicate defining the analysis as "better". What about barrel manufacture and potential accuracy of each of the barrels? Where does that go?
The S model is "more desirable" suffers from some of the same deductive reasoning errors as to which is "better". Perhaps this is even more complicated since aethetics can now enter the discussion which is never agreed upon or well defined.
A more scientific analysis would be to look at both of the two models you possess and evaluate which of the two possess the qualities/criteria that you most desire. Keep the one that meets those criteria and sell the other. Anything else is an emotional decision, which you will most likely later regret. As others have suggested, if emotion is involved in decision making then keep both. If you need to make a decision to sell, then make a reasoned decision about qualities that can be well defined.
The flaw in this deductive reasoning logic is that within the generalization of either S or N models are that any specific specimen could range from higher or lower criteria standards within their respective populations. The word "generally" means to "generalize" that the "analysis/opinion" of the group will apply to all of the specimens within the group, which is always a problem. Does the most perfectly completed N model rate better than one of the poorer executed S models? As well, criteria for evaluation such as does the exterior finish outweigh the internal fitting of parts and components complicate defining the analysis as "better". What about barrel manufacture and potential accuracy of each of the barrels? Where does that go?
The S model is "more desirable" suffers from some of the same deductive reasoning errors as to which is "better". Perhaps this is even more complicated since aethetics can now enter the discussion which is never agreed upon or well defined.
A more scientific analysis would be to look at both of the two models you possess and evaluate which of the two possess the qualities/criteria that you most desire. Keep the one that meets those criteria and sell the other. Anything else is an emotional decision, which you will most likely later regret. As others have suggested, if emotion is involved in decision making then keep both. If you need to make a decision to sell, then make a reasoned decision about qualities that can be well defined.
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My apologies. I thought we were discussing factory diamond grips, I have the box, docs and tools that came with mine and the grips match the SN. The grips are Magna. I missed the target grip in your post.
Oh my...[emoji3061]
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The quality and craftsmanship of most all firearms has progressively gone down over the years after WWII. Thats why the earlier S series revolvers are more desirable.
You have to compare apples to apples, not guns to cars or anything else.
You have to compare apples to apples, not guns to cars or anything else.
Responding to the OP, I have confidence in any S#### Smith & Wesson. If the serial number starts with N then I want to know more - starting with when in the production run.
I would argue that the few Colt New Service and especially Colt Shooting Master revolvers chambered in 357 Magnum cast doubt upon your assertion. Speaking of Colts, I am not interested in Colt revolvers manufactured after 1960 but YMMV.
The big tough model 27s and 28s are undoubtably the best .357 revolvers ever made by S&W or anyone else. And as far as S&W only selling a few of them....better do your home work before posting
I would argue that the few Colt New Service and especially Colt Shooting Master revolvers chambered in 357 Magnum cast doubt upon your assertion. Speaking of Colts, I am not interested in Colt revolvers manufactured after 1960 but YMMV.
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Bullet99
Member
It's just my humble opinion but some folks like the "N" prefix because they are cheaper and more readably available. Good "S" prefix guns are getting harder to find..
heeter3
Member
Keep em bothG-mac if you let any of them get away you will regret it...ask me how I know.
The large frame of the Colts does not automatically result in strength or durability. The revolver blow up tests in the early 70s done by the HP White labs showed that it was nearly impossible to blow up the N frame S&W .357s. And the old style lockwork of the Colts pales in comparison to the Smith's.
Capt. F.
Member
You have to own 'em to understand!
Reading the N & S thoughts interesting. My '60 29-0's a big honkin' revolver but i love it. Long ago deer hunting from a tree stand took the 29 but no shot. Sure woulda liked to take a whitetail with it.
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charlie sherrill
Member
I've had a lot of N frame .357's over the years. My last experience with them was I owned a stock 28-2 4" three screw. Nothing fancy about it. It was a pretty good revolver that I occasionally shot. I had a friend that had been after me for several years to sell it to him. I found a 28-0 4" Four screw with the "S" serial number with a smooth .400 trigger, .500 hammer, white front sight insert and a very good action job with original magma grips numbered to the gun. I bought it and after shooting it some I sold the 28-2 to my friend for what I paid for the four screw. That four screw is one fine shooter. A month or two after I bought the four screw a friend of mine from Louisiana came over to burn a few .357's with me at my little pistol range. He had a 28-2 that had the exact same work done on it as my 28-0. We each shot both of them and could not tell any difference in the performance. I think the alterations on each 28 may hurt their collectible value a little but both of us bought them to shoot, not collect. The alterations were apparently identical and most likely done by the same person, who was probably tricking out revolvers for LEO's sometime back in the 60's, or maybe S&W did it, I don't know. To answer the original question, I think the "S" revolvers are probably worth more to a collector, but not necessarily to the shooter.
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