MY GUNS WERE NOT OLD WHEN I BOUGHT THEM.........NEITHER WAS I.
now the guns are old.....and so am i.
now the guns are old.....and so am i.
Are We A Dying Breed?
- Thread starter antilamr
- Start date
The 3rd Gen S&W autos are some of the most reliable autopistols ever made.
So, I have to strongly disagree with you about there being better all metal choices available, because there really aren't.
There are more popular choices available.
There are more expensive choices available.
But, you will not find the combination of design/build quality, and reliability with a wide variety of ammo for anywhere near the current price of a 3rd Gen Smith.
I am happy to agree to disagree with you, because you're one less person I have to compete with, when it comes to buying classic S&W autos.
tipoc
Member
I don't think there's one answer. We'll just wait (we have no choice on that unless you want to end things early) and we'll see.
Things change sometimes rapidly.
The majority of people who live in Ca., Or, N.H. etc. are working class folks and it's in our interests to defend the 2nd and the Bill of Rights against the clamoring of the liberal left which holds a good deal of power. That bill will come due.
While the economy is picking up wages and benefits remain very low. The choice between a $1,500 collectible piece or pay your rent is a real one. Many, many folks work 2 jobs or more.
Reports indicate that more people are actively involved in the shooting sports than used to be. There are more sports as well today. Some like three gun take real money to be involved in. Others not.
There is a class divide here as well. I meet a good number of techies who make close to two hundred grand a year who like to shoot and buy high end gear. Most of what they know they learn from the internet. Some have gone into collecting. I also know a good many younger shooters who don't have, at present the financial resources. My nephew owns three guns and has for years.
There is no more panic buying. Which is good but has effected the industry.
So long as guns are made and used there will be folks who collect and shoot them.
tipoc
Things change sometimes rapidly.
The majority of people who live in Ca., Or, N.H. etc. are working class folks and it's in our interests to defend the 2nd and the Bill of Rights against the clamoring of the liberal left which holds a good deal of power. That bill will come due.
While the economy is picking up wages and benefits remain very low. The choice between a $1,500 collectible piece or pay your rent is a real one. Many, many folks work 2 jobs or more.
Reports indicate that more people are actively involved in the shooting sports than used to be. There are more sports as well today. Some like three gun take real money to be involved in. Others not.
There is a class divide here as well. I meet a good number of techies who make close to two hundred grand a year who like to shoot and buy high end gear. Most of what they know they learn from the internet. Some have gone into collecting. I also know a good many younger shooters who don't have, at present the financial resources. My nephew owns three guns and has for years.
There is no more panic buying. Which is good but has effected the industry.
So long as guns are made and used there will be folks who collect and shoot them.
tipoc
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F75gunslinger
Member
I think it comes down to a few things.Many who have little to no experience with guns tend to follow advice from internet forums and shop owners.Most won't find a forum like this one right off the bat, so they are in a general firearms forum. Most of the advice I see given in those types of forums is semi autos are better because you have more firepower. Also prevalent is that whatever police and military are using tends to be a better seller.
After some time in the hobby they gain more experience and hopefully get a chance to shoot more guns from friends/ranges.They learn quality over quantity is better and are more discerning with their money.
After some time in the hobby they gain more experience and hopefully get a chance to shoot more guns from friends/ranges.They learn quality over quantity is better and are more discerning with their money.
Old guys tend to like to collect old things, or from a certain time period that they deem to be superior usually because it is associated with their youth or a particularly happy time in their life. There will always be people interested in history and historical firearms in general. I see a lot of folks that are collecting Glocks and there's nothing better or worse about collecting them than any other firearm IMO. Some of the first models command pretty breathtaking prices upwards of $20,000. Here's a special model that went for $14,500 https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/769342281
I thought we were, till I started working in a local gun shop. The new 1st time shooters all buy the plastic striker fired guns. And handguns like that in the below $600 range make up the bulk - probably 65% - of our handgun sales. But the other 35% of our handun sales are hammer fired, metal frames Sigs, CZs, Berettas and high end 1911s.
Since we struck a deal with CZ and are getting more of their product, CZ sales are on an uptick. They are seriously nice guns and fairly priced. Especially for what you get for your money.
And I see quite a few folks who entered the shooting world recently, who decide that they want to purchase a TDA or DAO metal framed hammer fired gun because they tried one a friend or relative let them shoot and love the better trigger and lesser recoil of a heavier gun.
So yeah, we may be dinosaurs. And the meteor may be coming. And our once favored manufacturer may be catering to mob rule and care less what we want to see and buy.
But there is still TDA hammer fired metal framed guns being made by other manufacturers. And they are selling well. Thats a good thing, for all of us. Not only is the Fat Lady not singing yet, I dont think she is even in the building.
Regards 18DAI
Since we struck a deal with CZ and are getting more of their product, CZ sales are on an uptick. They are seriously nice guns and fairly priced. Especially for what you get for your money.
And I see quite a few folks who entered the shooting world recently, who decide that they want to purchase a TDA or DAO metal framed hammer fired gun because they tried one a friend or relative let them shoot and love the better trigger and lesser recoil of a heavier gun.
So yeah, we may be dinosaurs. And the meteor may be coming. And our once favored manufacturer may be catering to mob rule and care less what we want to see and buy.
But there is still TDA hammer fired metal framed guns being made by other manufacturers. And they are selling well. Thats a good thing, for all of us. Not only is the Fat Lady not singing yet, I dont think she is even in the building.
Regards 18DAII got ya beat, but only half beat!
I was 36 when I bought my first cheap plastic gun.
Half beat because it was a Glock.
I carried it for 7 or 8 years, it was a phenomenal tool for the job and it still runs and hits like a champ when ask it to, even though I don't carry it anymore. In my defense, it's truly the only Glock I ever wanted and though I did move a couple in and then out again due to circumstances, it's the only one I wanted and enjoyed and kept.
And these days, I own just four pieces of tupperware. They are useful, but they don't have a place in my heart like the handguns that I love.
Seriously good point ^^
I can tell you that in Smith & Wesson revolvers, the ones made from 1985 to 1995 are the ones that I am most attracted to. I'm not dumb enough to even suggest that S&W revolvers from '85 to '95 are the best they made
because that isn't the truth, but these are guns from my formative years and dang near any S&W revolver from that era specifically is one I am drawn to. (Unless it's a J-frame, then YUCK, haha...) To me, those revolvers look right, they SOUND right when you work the action, they have a familiarity that some others don't replicate and even that one-piece cardboard box is, in my pea brain, the RIGHT box.Those particular guns take me back to a day when I had enough money to buy a gun magazine from the drug store and stare at all of those and actually buy none of those. (well, not totally true, I did manage to sock away $315 from paper route money and my first "Real" job to fund my 6-inch 686-3.)
OP
I thought we were, till I started working in a local gun shop. The new 1st time shooters all buy the plastic striker fired guns. And handguns like that in the below $600 range make up the bulk - probably 65% - of our handgun sales. But the other 35% of our handun sales are hammer fired, metal frames Sigs, CZs, Berettas and high end 1911s.
.......
But there is still TDA hammer fired metal framed guns being made by other manufacturers. And they are selling well. Thats a good thing, for all of us. Not only is the Fat Lady not singing yet, I dont think she is even in the building.
Good to hear. BTW, I LOVE your signature!
OP
I got ya beat, but only half beat!
I was 36 when I bought my first cheap plastic gun.
Half beat because it was a Glock.
And these days, I own just four pieces of tupperware. They are useful, but they don't have a place in my heart like the handguns that I love.
Got you both beat. Just bought my first plastic piece 2 months ago. A Shield 9mm. Only reason was due to it being less than half price with all the extras it came with as well as only having 250 down the pipe. Haven't shot it yet. Probably try and trade it off for another 3rd gen or 1911. 1911's also have a soft spot in my heart.
OP
Seriously good point ^^
I can tell you that in Smith & Wesson revolvers, the ones made from 1985 to 1995 are the ones that I am most attracted to. I'm not dumb enough to even suggest that S&W revolvers from '85 to '95 are the best they made
Those particular guns take me back to a day when I had enough money to buy a gun magazine from the drug store and stare at all of those and actually buy none of those. (well, not totally true, I did manage to sock away $315 from paper route money and my first "Real" job to fund my 6-inch 686-3.)
Almost all the guns I collected from years ago are all S&W revolvers still new, un-fired in original boxes. Only 2 are not, a PPK and a 1911.
BTW, my first real job was having 2 paper routes (one AM and one PM route) also. Guess it shows our age.
tipoc
Member
Met a young man in his 20s who started working at a local gunatorium just recently. He has his eyes out for third gen S&W semis. Anything in the 39 series of guns gets him going. I don't see as many of those around as I used to. Folks have been buying them up.
tipoc
tipoc
one eye joe
US Veteran
I'M OLDER THAN YOU BY LEAST A DECADE, I WOULD GUESS......
MOST OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT I SEE AT THE RANGE ARE SHOOTING HI-CAP, 9MM, TUPPERWARE. THIER AREA OF THE RANGE IS LITTERED WITH BRASS, AND THEIR TARGETS ARE COVERED WITH HOLES FROM EDGE TO EDGE......
EVERY NOW AND THEN---ATTRACTED BY THE BOOMING REPORT OF MY BIG BORE REVOLVER, AND MY TARGET BEING ROLLED IN WITH ONE RAGGED HOLE IN THE BLACK---ONE OR TWO OF THEM MAY WANDER DOWN TO MY END OF THE RANGE, TO SAY HELLO TO THIS OL' GEEZER, AND TO LOOK WITH WONDER AT WHAT I AM SHOOTING......
YES, WE ARE A DYING BREED ! ! !
bigl1911
Member
I also as is the case with others currently posting live and collect in California. I rely heavily on my COE and CR to stay on top on the game. Not going into the political aspects of how we collect out here since the end result will be a thread slide.
Are we a dying breed? I don't believe this is the case.
Speaking as a salesperson you have to know your customer and you have to see the market as a whole. I watched the Rock Island Auction a few weeks ago. There is definitely no shortage of people spending money when you see a Winchester hit over a million dollar hammer. All the guns I wanted during this auction went double to four times what I would have paid short of a nickel 1891. The Smith hit at 30% more than I wanted to spend at the high-end. Then again it is nickel and my first in this finish so I am not complaining - glad to have it.
Firearms of various types fall in and out of favor. If you're into flintlock and wheel locks there is probably no better time to buy then now. Me? I don't buy to make money. Then again, I do have to make smart decisions. My choices on new add-ons today are about enhancing my collection – not always about the gun as a standalone item. No one wants to throw their money away in the garbage can. I preface my next statement by saying I have never sold a gun. There is definitely one truism – it is easier to sell a very special gun at 5k than three average guns at $1,700.
Recently I have been deep into antiques. This guns are interesting, an added learning experience and for the most part reasonably priced for very special things. I don't care if I make money in the long run and at the same time it isn't costing me the farm. Then there are those that I cannot pass. In a few minutes I will post in a new thread as a great example of how too. As a general rule, I buy at wholesale prices with a few exceptions. I'm not going into how I do this (not relevant to this thread), but let's just say there is a strategy.
Buy because you love something and regardless of the value if it brings you pleasure even if we are in a dying field of interest. Buy smart if want to build a collection. Building a collection can start with a few hundred dollars and two guns. If you study your area of interest and buy smart, a few hundred dollars can turn into a few thousand and four fine firearms in a short period of time if you are a true collector.
Antilamr – I am turning 60 next year and I am a very active collector. I strongly believe there are many people that think the way I do hence the reason for my long post. I see and talk with them, there are those that watch and learn from others. If I am correct collecting fine firearms is not a dying breed. The hard part just ask the SWCA is bringing in new blood. In order to do this you and I have to mentor and allow the newbies a home and do so with open arms. We have to invite them in not alienate them. I go to the shows and communicate with a network of collectors and dealers all the time. I can say with great confidence have no fear because there are some very smart young people out there who are serious about collecting firearms and they are not all plastic guns. We just have to treat them kindly and given them direction. Thanks for the post…
Are we a dying breed? I don't believe this is the case.
Speaking as a salesperson you have to know your customer and you have to see the market as a whole. I watched the Rock Island Auction a few weeks ago. There is definitely no shortage of people spending money when you see a Winchester hit over a million dollar hammer. All the guns I wanted during this auction went double to four times what I would have paid short of a nickel 1891. The Smith hit at 30% more than I wanted to spend at the high-end. Then again it is nickel and my first in this finish so I am not complaining - glad to have it.
Firearms of various types fall in and out of favor. If you're into flintlock and wheel locks there is probably no better time to buy then now. Me? I don't buy to make money. Then again, I do have to make smart decisions. My choices on new add-ons today are about enhancing my collection – not always about the gun as a standalone item. No one wants to throw their money away in the garbage can. I preface my next statement by saying I have never sold a gun. There is definitely one truism – it is easier to sell a very special gun at 5k than three average guns at $1,700.
Recently I have been deep into antiques. This guns are interesting, an added learning experience and for the most part reasonably priced for very special things. I don't care if I make money in the long run and at the same time it isn't costing me the farm. Then there are those that I cannot pass. In a few minutes I will post in a new thread as a great example of how too. As a general rule, I buy at wholesale prices with a few exceptions. I'm not going into how I do this (not relevant to this thread), but let's just say there is a strategy.
Buy because you love something and regardless of the value if it brings you pleasure even if we are in a dying field of interest. Buy smart if want to build a collection. Building a collection can start with a few hundred dollars and two guns. If you study your area of interest and buy smart, a few hundred dollars can turn into a few thousand and four fine firearms in a short period of time if you are a true collector.
Antilamr – I am turning 60 next year and I am a very active collector. I strongly believe there are many people that think the way I do hence the reason for my long post. I see and talk with them, there are those that watch and learn from others. If I am correct collecting fine firearms is not a dying breed. The hard part just ask the SWCA is bringing in new blood. In order to do this you and I have to mentor and allow the newbies a home and do so with open arms. We have to invite them in not alienate them. I go to the shows and communicate with a network of collectors and dealers all the time. I can say with great confidence have no fear because there are some very smart young people out there who are serious about collecting firearms and they are not all plastic guns. We just have to treat them kindly and given them direction. Thanks for the post…
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Hear hear! ^^ Good man!
My Dad passed away when I was 15 and he'd been sick for years and never got around to teaching me to shoot. So when I jumped in to this world of guns and shooting, I went HARD at age 15 and made up quickly for lost time. I was handloading 20 gauge shotgun before my 16th Birthday and metallic handgun ammo not long after.
And I got treated like dreck in gun stores, especially (and most memorably) the local gun store, which was my only local access to tools and components. I can assure anyone that it wasn't my attitude, it was my age. (If anyone's local area is Flint, Michigan then a friendly shout-out to GUNS GALORE in Fenton as the absolute kings of obnoxious in the late 1980's. They are better these days, and I contend it's because some of them kicked off.)
Often similar experiences at gun shows, though not always. It's what I remember every single time I hear crusty old guys on this forum complaining about younger shooters and their preferences today.
Younger guys are still buying guns and (hopefully) registered, active voters.
Crusty old guys need to retire the chip on their shoulder and their decades perfected sneer directed at the whipper snapper that is two lanes over at the range. If you read this and you wonder... it could be you.
HardToHandle
Member
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Depends on the dying breed...
There are some under 40 hipster guys into vintage guns. I bought a 1960's vintage Stetson off a younger guy I know who likes classic steel, but auto-pistols.
The under 40 crowd is the majority of the pipe hitters fighting the longest U.S. war to date. They went to war with criminally inadequate Beretta M9s, a 1960s design, and a 1950s-era designed, 1970-80s produced M-16s. Many of those claptrap black guns have been replaced in the last 17 years, but 60-70 year old designs are old. Gaston Glock's brainchild is turning 40, old enough for grandkids.
Those kids rightfully look at a revolver that has minor improvements since the Colt Lightning and ask if 150-year old technology is what they want. A S&W 3rd Generation is mostly remake of a gun Hitler shot 80 years ago.
It is all about perspective.
There are some under 40 hipster guys into vintage guns. I bought a 1960's vintage Stetson off a younger guy I know who likes classic steel, but auto-pistols.
The under 40 crowd is the majority of the pipe hitters fighting the longest U.S. war to date. They went to war with criminally inadequate Beretta M9s, a 1960s design, and a 1950s-era designed, 1970-80s produced M-16s. Many of those claptrap black guns have been replaced in the last 17 years, but 60-70 year old designs are old. Gaston Glock's brainchild is turning 40, old enough for grandkids.
Those kids rightfully look at a revolver that has minor improvements since the Colt Lightning and ask if 150-year old technology is what they want. A S&W 3rd Generation is mostly remake of a gun Hitler shot 80 years ago.
It is all about perspective.
one eye joe
US Veteran
IN CAREFULLY READING YOUR INTERESTING POST, I REALIZE THAT WE COME FROM TWO DIFFERENT DISCIPLINES WITHIN THE FIREARMS HOBBY. YOU ARE PRIMARILY A COLLECTOR. I AM PRIMARILY A SHOOTER.......
I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE "NEW BLOOD" IN THE COLLECTING GAME IS 15-20 YEARS OLDER THAN MOST NEW SHOOTERS THAT I SEE AT THE RANGES. I DESCRIBED MY EXPERIENCES IN THE POST ABOVE YOURS.....
I MUST ADMIT TO NOTICING A FASCINATION WITH NAZI WEAPONRY AND MILITARIA AT SHOWS, ON THE PART OF YOUNG PEOPLE. THE ATTRACTION TO LUGERS, AND WALTHER P-38s SEEMS TO SPAN THE GENERATIONS......
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mikey52
Member
You can look at the classifieds on this forum, and see what is selling. Most of the sales are from revolvers, the market for S&W autos seems to be way down, don't know why. It just seems like interest in steel autos, has crashed. Could be because of price compared to the black plastic guns available, Mikey
hkcavalier
US Veteran
I'm in my early 40s and have been collecting S&Ws for about 6 years. The oldest is from 1917 and the newest is from 2015 (a Shield, not really a collectible). Highlights have been finding a nice 624 Lew Horton with combats and a pre-39. I've found some other rare ones but the prices were in the stratosphere.
The main cause to the "gray hair effect" I see is not age, but money. Many of my clients at work (I am an insurance agent and financial advisor) are retirement age. Most either barely get by, or through savvy planning have plenty of disposable income. These are the guys who show up and buy a $40,000 fishing boat with a check. Collecting interesting and old [fill in the blank] is not difficult for them. They simply seek them out and break open their wallet.
Younger guys like me, who don't have a paid off house, who do have kids who might want to go to college someday, we just can't do that. The 40-somethings I know with lots of disposable income are more into seeing the world, nice cars, and eating out. Hunting down rare guns, maybe some, but it's not very common. Which is good...if everyone wanted them they'd be a lot harder to get!
The main cause to the "gray hair effect" I see is not age, but money. Many of my clients at work (I am an insurance agent and financial advisor) are retirement age. Most either barely get by, or through savvy planning have plenty of disposable income. These are the guys who show up and buy a $40,000 fishing boat with a check. Collecting interesting and old [fill in the blank] is not difficult for them. They simply seek them out and break open their wallet.
Younger guys like me, who don't have a paid off house, who do have kids who might want to go to college someday, we just can't do that. The 40-somethings I know with lots of disposable income are more into seeing the world, nice cars, and eating out. Hunting down rare guns, maybe some, but it's not very common. Which is good...if everyone wanted them they'd be a lot harder to get!
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