Are We A Dying Breed?
- Thread starter antilamr
- Start date
OP
You are obviously in a different situation than me and I salute you and your passion. I've learned a lot from you in just the last few hours of reading some of your older posts. I only hope I can be as effective as you are in your pursuit of collecting and preserving firearms.
Yes, I'm over 50, but my first firearm purchase in '93 was a S&W 439, when I was 28. So there is one data point. I now have added a 5906 and a 6906. But I grew up with an original 1858 Remington in the house, as it was carried in the Civil War by an ancestor. Same with a VERY LOOOOOONG percussion cap rifle from the early 1800s, also from an ancestor.
MattyD380
Member
I'm 37...
And I love older semi-autos. Third gens most certainly included:
My gun collection is entirely DA/SA and the only polymer gun I own is a Beretta PX4 Compact (not pictured--great gun, though).
The only guns I've bought new in recent memory have been my Beretta 92 compact and the aforementioned PX4. Aside from that, I like older German Sigs and third gens. My main CCW right now is the P245, pictured. I find it to be the perfect size and profile for carry, and it shoots great. The 6904 pictured here actually saved my dog's life last year, when she was attacked by a German Shepherd and a rottweiler. Such an underrated pistol.
Not to seem like some kind of a jaded hipster... but... there isn't a whole out there (currently being made) that excites me. Glocks, M&Ps... meh. Sig, to me, isn't what it was. Beretta is one of the few that's actually putting out new guns I'm into.
I know it's subjective, but older guns feel more like weapons, made to professional standards; so much of what's out there today feels more like a consumer product. Next gun on my hit list is probably a Browning Hi Power... or maybe a Colt Double Eagle. Suffice to say, Gunbroker is basically my LGS.
I've only been a gun owner for the past 6 years or so, and I didn't grow up around guns. So I guess you could say my interest in firearms was born of movies and TV from the 80s and 90s... hence the predilection for DA/SA, I suppose. And, as it so happens, carrying decocked in DA gives me a lot of peace of mind. If I end up with a Hi Power, we'll have to see how I feel about carrying C&L.
And I love older semi-autos. Third gens most certainly included:
My gun collection is entirely DA/SA and the only polymer gun I own is a Beretta PX4 Compact (not pictured--great gun, though).
The only guns I've bought new in recent memory have been my Beretta 92 compact and the aforementioned PX4. Aside from that, I like older German Sigs and third gens. My main CCW right now is the P245, pictured. I find it to be the perfect size and profile for carry, and it shoots great. The 6904 pictured here actually saved my dog's life last year, when she was attacked by a German Shepherd and a rottweiler. Such an underrated pistol.
Not to seem like some kind of a jaded hipster... but... there isn't a whole out there (currently being made) that excites me. Glocks, M&Ps... meh. Sig, to me, isn't what it was. Beretta is one of the few that's actually putting out new guns I'm into.
I know it's subjective, but older guns feel more like weapons, made to professional standards; so much of what's out there today feels more like a consumer product. Next gun on my hit list is probably a Browning Hi Power... or maybe a Colt Double Eagle. Suffice to say, Gunbroker is basically my LGS.
I've only been a gun owner for the past 6 years or so, and I didn't grow up around guns. So I guess you could say my interest in firearms was born of movies and TV from the 80s and 90s... hence the predilection for DA/SA, I suppose. And, as it so happens, carrying decocked in DA gives me a lot of peace of mind. If I end up with a Hi Power, we'll have to see how I feel about carrying C&L.
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Great and interesting thread. I too often wonder where our sport of shooting, collecting, and favor over different types of firearms is going. Thought I could stereotype all younger shooters as "synthetic hi-cap fans" but not always the case. I believe the lower cost of some polymer models has made the sport more affordable to younger people. As far as rifles at my club I notice quite a few older guys [60s] shooting guns like synthetic stocked and matte finish Ruger American and Savage 110s. For myself I am glad I held onto the long guns I bought 40 years back. Just as accurate and darn nice to look at too.
p8riot
US Veteran
My 16yr old loves to shoot my revolvers, specially the 357s. He is also a big fan of lever guns, 1911s (he could name all of the parts when he was 9 yrs old), and surplus guns.I gave him a TULA M44 for Chrismas last year and two crates of steel core. He's 6'4" and weighs 220, so he's got no problem handling it.
I feel confident that I can pass my collection down to him and he will appreciate it.
I feel confident that I can pass my collection down to him and he will appreciate it.
You can insert about any hobby into the "are we dying" discussion. Vintage cars, tractors, model planes and trains, coin collecting, fishing, guns, etc. All the above and many more are always lamenting about the lack of youngsters involved with their particular hobby. Been hearing it for years.
I tend not to put much stock into it. I just try to expose the young ones close to me to the different things that I'm involved in and maybe one will stick, especially as they age. Guns were a big part of my teen and early twenties years. My Dad wasn't really big on them but he did gift me a couple when I was younger and would take me shooting and hunting occasionally. My Grandfather and Uncle were big time shooters though, unfortunately they both passed very young and I never got to enjoy the hobby with them. But my Grandfathers Shooters Bibles from the 40's and 50's were in the gun cabinet at home and I would spend hours as a kid drooling over the pages. Like many others, along came mortgages, kids, and other interests, plus a lack of places to shoot as suburbia made its way to my once rural home kept me away from the hobby for many years. But as the kids got older my one son got more serious about it and we now share a common interest and spend time together at the range. And my 6 year old grandson is not a bad shot with his Daisy, so there's hope.
I tend not to put much stock into it. I just try to expose the young ones close to me to the different things that I'm involved in and maybe one will stick, especially as they age. Guns were a big part of my teen and early twenties years. My Dad wasn't really big on them but he did gift me a couple when I was younger and would take me shooting and hunting occasionally. My Grandfather and Uncle were big time shooters though, unfortunately they both passed very young and I never got to enjoy the hobby with them. But my Grandfathers Shooters Bibles from the 40's and 50's were in the gun cabinet at home and I would spend hours as a kid drooling over the pages. Like many others, along came mortgages, kids, and other interests, plus a lack of places to shoot as suburbia made its way to my once rural home kept me away from the hobby for many years. But as the kids got older my one son got more serious about it and we now share a common interest and spend time together at the range. And my 6 year old grandson is not a bad shot with his Daisy, so there's hope.
bigl1911
Member
Hi Joe,
Thanks for the response. You are right I am primarily a collector; however I shoot as well on a regular basis. I mention this because as is the case with most shooters some of us concentrate time on tactical practice. I have no military service of police background. My evolution as a shooter has to be self motivated. What I can say is I would rather shoot a fine revolver all day long for enjoyment than a Glock any day of the week. I think this is true with most people both young and old. Thanks..
Thanks for the response. You are right I am primarily a collector; however I shoot as well on a regular basis. I mention this because as is the case with most shooters some of us concentrate time on tactical practice. I have no military service of police background. My evolution as a shooter has to be self motivated. What I can say is I would rather shoot a fine revolver all day long for enjoyment than a Glock any day of the week. I think this is true with most people both young and old. Thanks..
bigl1911
Member
Thank you! Very kind..
I understand the wife with priorities. Been there.
Antilamr - Some of the best guns I've found and the ones that gave me the highest level of pleasure speaking as a collector were purchased in the few hundred dollar range. My last post is a good example. Every time I buy at a gun shop or show (again with some exceptions for very rare or important), my dollar spent increases same day in value as an investment in my collection. In other words if I was in it for growing a collection and my focus was strictly profit, an 800 stating point investment purchase will return an 800 profit and a new 1600 gun balance for the "collector's fund" if the items are bought right. I've watched dealers at gun shows turn the same gun three or four times between other dealers each stepping the cost point up a notch. If they can do it so can we. Thanks again for the kind words..
Yes, metal pistol owners are a dying (or at least greying) breed. The good news is that gun ownership is thriving in general.
I don't care if people appreciate a specific style of gun as long as they understand the value in owning guns in general.
The demographics of gun owners are changing, with more women in particularly owning guns. They want light, easy to carry, easy to shoot, firearms. That's why S&W introduced the Shield 380EZ.
I doubt anyone in this thread would consider that for personal purchase, but a lot of new gun owners would.
That's good news for all of us.
I don't care if people appreciate a specific style of gun as long as they understand the value in owning guns in general.
The demographics of gun owners are changing, with more women in particularly owning guns. They want light, easy to carry, easy to shoot, firearms. That's why S&W introduced the Shield 380EZ.
I doubt anyone in this thread would consider that for personal purchase, but a lot of new gun owners would.
That's good news for all of us.
'Kay. Let's examine some evidence.
(1) Your morale thread has received 1400 views.
(2) There are currently 3000 people looking at S&W Forum, one of the single largest brand-specific forums on the internet.
Yet you conclude that you're somehow rare, that there aren't very many of you, and you are a unique and special snowflake.
You're not! You're just isolated from everybody else. Largely because every five minutes, someone blasts "Tupperware" guns. If I walked around calling S&Ws "expensive Rossi's", would you want to associate with me?
Then there are the countless Grumpy Old Man posts bemoaning the "sad state of America's youth", with a few "young people can't shoot" posts.
It's not that young people don't shoot revolvers or whatever else you're into. Mostly, they just don't want to shoot with you.
When it comes to collectibles I don't believe it's a question of popularity but one of economics.
We boomers lived in a time of disposable income, to believe that will be the case in the future is a stretch.
Millennials are a diverse group and those that I know are practical if not down right frugal.
The fact that a plastic gun is what's desired for a using gun is born out in sales figures.
So less disposable income, frugal by necessity and a cheaper alternative for SD, you all might think about liquidation while you can.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We boomers lived in a time of disposable income, to believe that will be the case in the future is a stretch.
Millennials are a diverse group and those that I know are practical if not down right frugal.
The fact that a plastic gun is what's desired for a using gun is born out in sales figures.
So less disposable income, frugal by necessity and a cheaper alternative for SD, you all might think about liquidation while you can.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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OP
'Kay. Let's examine some evidence.
(1) Your morale thread has received 1400 views.
Wasn't meant to be"morale" but I'll take it
(2) There are currently 3000 people looking at S&W Forum, one of the single largest brand-specific forums on the internet.
Didn't realize that since I'm not on any other brand-specific forum
Yet you conclude that you're somehow rare, that there aren't very many of you, and you are a unique and special snowflake.
Far from a "snowflake" but drfrnitly unique in my sphere of influence
You're not! You're just isolated from everybody else.
This could be true
It's not that young people don't shoot revolvers or whatever else you're into. Mostly, they just don't want to shoot with you.
Never asked but wouldn't doubt it.
BTW, I like your nick name.
Okay, forget the "millennials". Which is a ridiculous term anyway. I think in actual use it boils down to "people younger than me". Besides, they spend as much on guns as anybody else.
Do you want to know why so few people are buying new revolvers? Because the old ones are cheaper and just as good. I'd guess more money changes hands over used revolvers than new ones.
The other thing is, when discussing CCW sales, why would you not buy a polymer-framed packin' pistol? They're cheaper than steel guns, lighter, frequently as small or smaller, and shoot just fine.
antilamr said:
Well, I wasn't so much remarking on you (although I'll admit that's what "your thread" sounds like) just these guys in general. There's another threadnought over in CCW&SD bemoaning "plsatic spray'n'prayers" and "millennials" and such.
Seriously, these guys are starting to sound like gun hipsters. "I'm into revolvers, you wouldn't know them, they're very underground." I mean, that's sorta the CZ75 guys' niche.
Engieman
Member
I'm in my 60's as well, retired and fortunate enough to be able to shoot frequently. Being a shooting enthusiast from an early age, I have spent years buying, selling, collecting and accumulating. But in the last year or so I don't seem to have much of a desire to buy many more guns. Instead, I love shooting, handling and appreciating all the 'old' blue steel and wood grip pistols and rifles that have so many memories attached to them. Nostalgia I guess; and while I do have some plastic guns around, they just don't seem to have a soul or any character. Nor do they show the craftsmanship and pride in production that assembly lines now crank out. I'm a pretty simple guy now....Now in regards to dying out part, well there is no denying that. Told us in the Marines that none of us are getting out of this life alive; and when surrounded that was good thing as we could attack in any direction (none of this retreat stuff) and when asked, my Doctor has said the same thing. Don't have a day scheduled or a date on the calendar for that yet.....
double-dipper
Member
It's evolution the gun word is changing. I'm crowding 60 now and the gun world I grew up in was Walnut stocks and shinny blued barrels and receivers. Black guns seem to fascinate this new generation of shooters. The number of Hunters and trappers are also declining.
bigl1911
Member
Don't mean to hog this thread - I find the subject very interesting. GaryS as is the case with may others has made a very good point about gun sales are thriving. Joe (one eye - very funny) also made a similar point about shooters vs. collectors. I did a little research today. The two top selling guns are the SW Shield 2nd place and the Ruger LCP 380 in the number one position. What we are seeing is the lion share of handgun purchases are carry guns, small footprint with women hitting the buying effort hard. There is a huge conceal carry group out there buying extremely small handguns as Gary mentioned starting with the women. The Ruger LCP at bud's Gun Shop sells for $179!! Does this mean our N, K and even J frame revolvers are a dying breed? For the purpose of personal and home protection maybe so. My gun of choice for home protection is a Sig226 or a Glock 17. Both are super reliable as semi-autos. Girlfriend's gun of choice is the Combat Magnum Model 19. Not a good idea messing with ball and chain!
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OP
Don't mean to hog this thread - I find the subject very interesting.
Hog all you want. Your input is well received
GaryS as is the case with may others has made a very good point about gun sales are thriving. Joe (one eye - very funny) also made a similar point about shooters vs. collectors.
2 very different perspectives. I agree with both sides to a degree.
I did a little research today. The two top selling guns are the SW Shield 2nd place and the Ruger LCP 380 in the number one position. What we are seeing is the lion share of handgun purchases are carry guns, small footprint with women hitting the buying effort hard. There is a huge conceal carry group out there buying extremely small handguns as Gary mentioned starting with the women. The Ruger LCP at bud's Gun Shop sells for $179!! Does this mean our N, K and even J frame revolvers are a dying breed? For the purpose of personal and home protection maybe so. My gun of choice for home protection is a Sig226 or a Glock 17. Both are super reliable as semi-autos. Girlfriend's gun of choice is the Combat Magnum Model 19. Not a good idea messing with ball and chain!
+1 on not messing with the women!
We all can learn something from everyone's experiences and view points as different as they can be. I know I am.
I'm 22 and about to get my 686+ that I got in a trade for a red dot. I use to shoot Cowboy Action when I was younger but fell out of that due to work, so I do appreciate the old stuff. I also have an old police Model 10 that is well loved and used. Overall, I really am a firearms enthusiast and enjoy all firearms, from muzzle loaders to my everyday carry Glock 19 that has a RMR, KKM bbl and comp, and X300U.
I think a lot of posters have already hit the mark as to why you're not seeing older guns in the hands of younger folks, the guns themselves were produced so long ago, spare parts are getting harder to find, and the rising cost due to appreciation. Like one poster said, he bought them new, or not too old, when he purchased them. Much like old Model A's or T's, while the decades go buy they'll be horded up or scraped as they reach their rusted end, people who don't know their worth do whatever with them, or enter another large collection of someone who does know their worth.
I suppose you could correlate the trend of older folks and their collections or pieces much like their homeowner status. Younger ones are in the cities due to college or their job and are currently facing high-rent, low-paying (probably janky Amazon or Star*ucks jobs) jobs, and disproportionately higher home prices. With lower prices, even with inflation, of homes and firearms, they were acquired back then and are still being held onto, or sold for good profit. I know one old guy who passed and had around 60 benchrest guns, unfortunately I never found out what big firm or store bought all of them from the dimwit son.
I would say that overall, a move towards newer technology such as polymer and autoloaders has given the sheer might of industrial production to the Glocks and ARs of the world. There's quite a few of my peer shooting buddies who all have old guns, from Belgian Auto-5's to Mauser C96's, and they love and cherrish them just as much.
I think a lot of posters have already hit the mark as to why you're not seeing older guns in the hands of younger folks, the guns themselves were produced so long ago, spare parts are getting harder to find, and the rising cost due to appreciation. Like one poster said, he bought them new, or not too old, when he purchased them. Much like old Model A's or T's, while the decades go buy they'll be horded up or scraped as they reach their rusted end, people who don't know their worth do whatever with them, or enter another large collection of someone who does know their worth.
I suppose you could correlate the trend of older folks and their collections or pieces much like their homeowner status. Younger ones are in the cities due to college or their job and are currently facing high-rent, low-paying (probably janky Amazon or Star*ucks jobs) jobs, and disproportionately higher home prices. With lower prices, even with inflation, of homes and firearms, they were acquired back then and are still being held onto, or sold for good profit. I know one old guy who passed and had around 60 benchrest guns, unfortunately I never found out what big firm or store bought all of them from the dimwit son.
I would say that overall, a move towards newer technology such as polymer and autoloaders has given the sheer might of industrial production to the Glocks and ARs of the world. There's quite a few of my peer shooting buddies who all have old guns, from Belgian Auto-5's to Mauser C96's, and they love and cherrish them just as much.
I think people tend to want what they see, what they are shown.
And that goes from politicians to products.
From what I can see, politicians no longer win elections by campaigning, traveling around stumping and giving speeches.
They just buy elections with TV ads. "May the richest man win." Scary.
Same with firearms. People buy what the manufacturers show them.
Show them striker fired plastic guns. They buy them.
"Hammer? What's a hammer? You don't need a hammer to fire a gun. You just need a trigger."
And I noticed as of late, I'm seeing more and more rifles that come without sights. You have to mount a scope or red dot sights on them.
This is all wonderful for the manufacturers. They crank out cheaper for them to make, inferior firearms and ill educated (at least as far as guns go) consumers snap them up as the "latest thing."
Idiots.
And that goes from politicians to products.
From what I can see, politicians no longer win elections by campaigning, traveling around stumping and giving speeches.
They just buy elections with TV ads. "May the richest man win." Scary.
Same with firearms. People buy what the manufacturers show them.
Show them striker fired plastic guns. They buy them.
"Hammer? What's a hammer? You don't need a hammer to fire a gun. You just need a trigger."
And I noticed as of late, I'm seeing more and more rifles that come without sights. You have to mount a scope or red dot sights on them.
This is all wonderful for the manufacturers. They crank out cheaper for them to make, inferior firearms and ill educated (at least as far as guns go) consumers snap them up as the "latest thing."
Idiots.
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