El Salvador provides a case study of one plausible outcome of a society allowing crime to get out of control. I wish more people who advocate leniency for criminals would understand this.
https://wapo.st/4511m20
https://wapo.st/4511m20
At one time it was against the law to steal...
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Just because Snopes claims (do you remember the concept that you cannot prove a negative???) that sign has never been carried in a protest march just means they found no positive evidence that it had, doesn't mean that is not the feeling of a lot of people whose descendants and other relatives participate in such activities.
Since most of what Snopes claims to do is prove negatives we all should know how much confidence should be placed in Snopes
Any troll can make a sign, take a picture of it, and post it online. That particular sign is WAY too neatly done to reflect the work of someone who might actually think like that.
OP
Dr. Thomas Sowell has written about the fact that crime destroys cities by driving taxpayers out...which lessens revenue...which means essential services can't be adequately funded...which drives more taxpayers out...and the cycle repeats endlessly.
OP
Your timely comment touches a nerve...
In Baltimore the other day, a 26 year old woman who was a noted technology entrepreneur was found dead from blunt-force trauma in her downtown apartment building.
Police identified a suspect and are searching for him now. He was convicted of first-degree assault in December, 2009, and second-degree assault in June of 2011. In 2015 he pleaded guilty to a first-degree sex offense charge, and was sentenced to 30 years with all but 14 years suspended. He was denied parole, but was released in October, 2022 on "good-time credits".
Stories like this make me sick. In my opinion, the State of Maryland is as guilty of that young woman's death as the monster who took her life...
Convicted sex offender wanted in killing of Pava LaPere, rising tech star - The Baltimore Banner.
LVSteve
Member
That the sign was the work of a troll is not in question. Sadly, I strongly believe that there people who truly think like that and consider the rest of us calling LE is an unjustified interference in their way of life.
We hear frequent complaints in this city about "food wastelands" where there are no grocery stores. Thing is, I know darned well that there used to stores in those neighborhoods when I came here 25+ years ago, but the proprietors got sick of the pilferage and shuttered those stores. Shocker, huh?
OP
Actually, only the bottom of the sign was altered from the original. The linked article explains in detail what happened. This was debunked and explained years ago...can we please stop re-hashing it?
'No Mother Should Have to Fear for Her Son's Life Every Time He Robs a Store' | Snopes.com
Yes, I read of that elsewhere. Sickening.
As to your sig line,"No man is above the law" - perhaps not above, but some manage to skate along comfortably hand in hand seemingly untouched by it, as these stories indicate.
lawandorder
Member
"Without the certainity of punishment there is NO deterrent to crime "
That quote is from a Fort Smith, Arkansas newspaper in 1875 just after Judge Issac C. Parker sent 6 men to the gallows to hang together.
Law & Order or Anarchy, our choice.
That quote is from a Fort Smith, Arkansas newspaper in 1875 just after Judge Issac C. Parker sent 6 men to the gallows to hang together.
Law & Order or Anarchy, our choice.
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Maddog 521
Member
The swamp draining needs to start at the local city and school board level.
Alton
Member
This was carried at a recent protest in a major city. The number of people who think this way is growing.
Buckle up.
Although that has been proven to be incorrect, a family did actually say something like that when a family member was shot for robbing a store in San Antonio. A town north of San Antonio is so bad on prosecutions some restaurants are swiping your credit cards when you enter their store. It keeps people from leaving without paying which had become an issue.
A bit off topic but,…….. I can't help but to think that a re-instatement of the Draft, even though we can't afford, would go a long way to righting our society, and our Ship of State……….
You're probably right but I doubt we will ever have the Draft again in this country. The reason is obvious. A large segment of our society would simply refuse to comply and our government doesn't have the guts to stand up to them.
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The decision to leave is a calculated business decision. Just as the decision to instruct employees to stop theft is a business decision.
They don't want their employees doing anything because, eventually, one of those employees will get hurt and the resulting costs are far, far, more than the stolen merchandise. These stores are now learning the new cost of that "moral hazard". Undeterred theft begets more theft. The thieves will just follow them.
The stores want Law Enforcement to take care of it, but they don't have the manpower. Just as the stores don't. It's all just so very expensive that it's easier to close the stores. Employee gets hurt, lawsuit/workmans comp. Thief gets hurt, lawsuit for excessive force. You could hire private security to offload the liability but that's really expensive.
They are going to need to change some laws to eliminate liability if they're going to use force to stop this. They used to shoot looters.
They don't want their employees doing anything because, eventually, one of those employees will get hurt and the resulting costs are far, far, more than the stolen merchandise. These stores are now learning the new cost of that "moral hazard". Undeterred theft begets more theft. The thieves will just follow them.
The stores want Law Enforcement to take care of it, but they don't have the manpower. Just as the stores don't. It's all just so very expensive that it's easier to close the stores. Employee gets hurt, lawsuit/workmans comp. Thief gets hurt, lawsuit for excessive force. You could hire private security to offload the liability but that's really expensive.
They are going to need to change some laws to eliminate liability if they're going to use force to stop this. They used to shoot looters.
smoothshooter
Member
Actually, I think what's going on these days is the reckoning.
At some point in the last forty years or so, our society decided that standards of conduct no longer matter...that some violations of the law were either not really that big a deal, or were too much trouble to prosecute.
It's interesting, from an academic standpoint, to watch a once-great society disintegrate, but it isn't much fun to live through it...
As an amateur historian, it is rather fascinating in a morbid sort of way, to watch up close a once great society self-destruct while the majority of the citizens choose to ignore the breakdown and it's causes.
IMO, we can no longer depend on the (elected) authorities to address the problems and lawlessness...........the people themselves (us) will have to stand up and put a stop to it. Shaking our heads and wondering when it will end seems to not work. I'm afraid we (us) will have to start shaking our fists and stop it ourselves.
Don
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OP
How interesting that some residents of Philadelphia decided last night to give us material to keep this thread going...
Philadelphia looting: More than a dozen people were arrested after multiple stores were ransacked, police say | CNN
Philadelphia looting: More than a dozen people were arrested after multiple stores were ransacked, police say | CNN
GypsmJim
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My son was an assistant store manager in a well known national retailer. It was made quite clear to him that he was NOT to follow a shoplifter, but rather collect as much info as he could and call the police. The reason was that an employee in one, of their stores was actually killed while pursuing a thief. It was more cost effective to let the stuff go, as opposed to getting sued by the dead employee's family.
The next part of the story was that they installed security cameras in the back rooms where the merchandise was stored before being shelved. They found that half of the shoplifting was being done by their own employees. With documented proof, they simply fired the thief. Another case of that being more cost effective than having to go thru a court case.
Ματθιας;141831635 said:
Pretty sad but true.
About all we can say here.
LVSteve
Member
While that might be more cost effective for the taxpayers in the jurisdiction, I don't see a cost on the business. Simply firing the thief does allow the business to quickly move past their error in judgement that was made during the hiring process. It all goes under the rug much quicker this way.
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They do not need to write more laws. They need to remove a few thousand.
Over 50 years ago I managed a retail store in NYC days and went to school nights. The store's owners were Japanese and the employees were mostly Asians from various countries. We had some Korean employees, some of whom were devout Christians and all of whom who were men had military experience, service being mandatory for men in Korea.
One of the guys, a mild mannered fellow named Oh, was a Methodist minister in addition to being a clerk in my store. Very quiet, gentle soul, at least as far as I knew.
One day a couple of transvestite shoplifters made an appearance. An employee told me, and I confronted them, telling them to dump the stuff they were trying to steal and get the hell out.
One of the shoplifters grabbed some chopsticks from a display, and threatened me, screaming, "I am gonna stick you with these!"
Mr. Oh materialized beside me, a ball-peen hammer in his hand, loosely held beside his leg.
"No you're not," he said, quietly deadpan.
The shoplifters looked at him for a few seconds, dumped the stuff, and ran from the store.
One of the guys, a mild mannered fellow named Oh, was a Methodist minister in addition to being a clerk in my store. Very quiet, gentle soul, at least as far as I knew.
One day a couple of transvestite shoplifters made an appearance. An employee told me, and I confronted them, telling them to dump the stuff they were trying to steal and get the hell out.
One of the shoplifters grabbed some chopsticks from a display, and threatened me, screaming, "I am gonna stick you with these!"
Mr. Oh materialized beside me, a ball-peen hammer in his hand, loosely held beside his leg.
"No you're not," he said, quietly deadpan.
The shoplifters looked at him for a few seconds, dumped the stuff, and ran from the store.
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Some of that in regard to shoplifting isn't really new. Once upon a time back in the last century, I apprehended a pro shop lifter. He had a coat of many pockets and had goods from several nearby retail stores. Quite a procession to local court. We all filed complaints/pressed charges.
There we found out our miscreant had just been busted for the thirty something time for shop lift. While the statutes provided for jail time for the 3rd offense, this guy had never been penalized more than $25 fine and $12 court costs. And wasn't this time.
What's really new is the organization (in some cases) and the brazen attitude of the criminals. I'm not saying we should go back to store keepers taking heads, but the "victimless crime" doesn't exist.
There we found out our miscreant had just been busted for the thirty something time for shop lift. While the statutes provided for jail time for the 3rd offense, this guy had never been penalized more than $25 fine and $12 court costs. And wasn't this time.
What's really new is the organization (in some cases) and the brazen attitude of the criminals. I'm not saying we should go back to store keepers taking heads, but the "victimless crime" doesn't exist.
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BLACKHAWKNJ
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The current mayor of Chicago has proposed a municipally run grocery to replace the private ones that are pulling out. There are constant complaints that "the poor" do not have access to "healthy" foods, so they can have a chain like Whole Foods stock it.
My mother-b. 1913-said the first self service grocery in NYC was a Piggly Wiggly in 1933. Before then, you went to the counter, gave the clerk your list, they brought your items out, you then went to the cashier.
This municipal grocery could be on a "no cash/EBT only" basis.
My mother-b. 1913-said the first self service grocery in NYC was a Piggly Wiggly in 1933. Before then, you went to the counter, gave the clerk your list, they brought your items out, you then went to the cashier.
This municipal grocery could be on a "no cash/EBT only" basis.
I disagree . They would be forced to " lower the bar " to accommodate the lower quality of draftees . Our military has been lowering standards for a while now and it can't continue .
While I see your point (and agree somewhat), in an actual military draft, standard would not need to be lowered to the lowest common denominator. You could afford to maintain standards as there would be a continuous flow of personnel to choose from. Those below minimum could be transferred to remedial training that would not count to their overall service time, so that remedial training would be in addition to their national commitment time. But this would be social experimentation on a grand scale that will never happen because we don't have the political will, the funding nor the cultural climate to force it. Which in itself is a shame…..
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Also called a death spiral.
Telecaster
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Locally (at least) a major grocery chain and major restaurant have had to hold your online food orders behind the counter because people would come in, see the bags on the shelf ready for customers to come and take, and just steal other people's bought & paid for food.
LVSteve
Member
Yeah, and we could use the old Soviet and current Chinese term for the facilities, re-education camps.
Yeah, and we could use the old Soviet and current Chinese term for the facilities, re-education camps.
Hmmm…… interesting view point …. Not what was meant but maybe the political will and culture we currently have would more readily accept that then the traditional Boot Camp
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