Atypical .32 HE with sideplate problem.

[Rick O'Shea]

Howdy folks,

I'm working on restoring an I-frame .32 pawn-shop rescue, and have hit some areas of difficulty that I hope the Forum can assist me with.

The Standard Catalog puts the serial number (278***) in the range for a .32 HE Third Model (263001 - 536684, 1917 - 1942). The descriptions don't jibe, though: mine has "Smith & Wesson" rollmarked on the left side of the barrel, and "32 Long CTG" (with an odd triple-triangle mark in front of the "32") on the right - just the opposite of the description.

And, as a distinction from nearly all the .32 I-frame descriptions, it has no S&W trademark stamp anywhere; both sides of the frame are perfectly blank.

Now, I know that anomalies of manufacture were pretty common back then, but I kind of need to know exactly what I have.
The reason: I need parts, specifically a sideplate.
I truly hate to replace anything as finely fitted as a sideplate, but this one has the funky little spring plunger assembly in it that applies tension to the hand, and the spring on mine has somehow gotten mangled up inside there.

I don't have the knowledge or courage to try to disassemble this mechanism, so I looked at Numrich. They carry a 1903 model and a 1905 model sideplate, with no indication as to the plunger assembly.
Before I call them to ask, I need to know, at least roughly, what species of .32 I have.

Any knowledge, wisdom or advice regarding my situation would be very kindly appreciated.

 

[opoefc]

Post some good close up photos of the barrel & side plate back side and the action of the gun. It will help us understand the problem, etc. Ed.

 

[Rick O'Shea]

I'll try.
"Good" and "close-up" may be mutually exclusive.

 

[DCWilson]

That is a completely standard .32 HE from around mid-1919. If it has a stepped backstrap and square butt stocks that are longer than the frame, it would be called a .32 Regulation Police. But in this case that would make no difference because the sideplate is the same.

For a period of time around WWI, S&W did not put company logos on their guns; that's why it is is missing from yours. Regardless of what the sources say, I have an early .32 Regulation Police marked as yours is -- S&W on the left side of the barrel, caliber designation on the right. That is with the barrel on top and the gun pointed away from the person holding it by its grip.

The 1905 sideplate would be for the larger K-frame revolver; the .32 HE is an I-frame revolver, so the the 1903 sideplate would at least fit your frame.

Where my understanding falls apart is in the nature of the mechanism on the back of the sideplate. The 1914 patent stamp you see on barrels of the era is for a hammer safety block that protects against misfires while the hammer is at rest. When the action moves, the hand pushes the hammer block into the sideplate so that the hammer nose can fall on the cartridge primer. I don't recall whether the spring tension on that safety block does double duty to keep the hand moving in a necessary path. If Hondo44 or others with his I-frame knowledge see this thread, they will be able to tell you what you need. I believe I am correct than any I-frame sideplate from a gun manufactured between 1917 and 1940 will work for your purposes. But don't trust my memory on this because it has been a long time since I had the action open on one of these guns, and I never had to deal with the sideplate problems you are facing now.

Good luck.

 

[glowe]

You need that pin because it is also the hand spring. Without that pin, the hand will not be forced forward to engage the cylinder. I think the earlier hands had a 2 pin design, with one of the pins contacting a small spring in order to function. You have to have the correct sideplate within the Third Model production in order to work with the hand. Photos below are of my 32 HE from 1919. I also have a 1917 32 HE that does not have the hammer block, so am thinking the implementation was later in the I frame revolvers than in the K frames.

I have a 32 HE with 279XXX and it has no logos on either side. It was shipped in 1919. I also have a RP with serial number 311XXX that has the small logo on the left side and it was shipped in 1920, so within that range was when the logo reappeared on the 32 HE.

 

[H Richard]

A couple of years ago Poppertsgunparts.com had some 32 HE side plates. It is worth a try, and if you can furnish a picture of yours it will tell him what you need. Good Luck

 

[tlay]

You may find a side plate that will fit but the seam will not look good. These were hand fit to the frame. I tried the same thing with a Navy victory that had a screwed up side plate. I never did find a good fit a decided to fix the original. This involved parkerizing the side plate.

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Thank you all. I will try to post pictures when I can for further clarification.

 

[scooter123]

You need that pin because it is also the hand spring. Without that pin, the hand will not be forced forward to engage the cylinder. I think the earlier hands had a 2 pin design, with one of the pins contacting a small spring in order to function. You have to have the correct sideplate within the Third Model production in order to work with the hand. Photos below are of my 32 HE from 1919. I also have a 1917 32 HE that does not have the hammer block, so am thinking the implementation was later in the I frame revolvers than in the K frames.

I have a 32 HE with 279XXX and it has no logos on either side. It was shipped in 1919. I also have a RP with serial number 311XXX that has the small logo on the left side and it was shipped in 1920, so within that range was when the logo reappeared on the 32 HE.

Glowe, if you could post the diameter of that pin I may be able to provide some guidance on a spring to help get the OP's sideplate functional again. I work for a Tubing supplier for the Auto Industry and the Ball Mandrels we use for high quality bends feature a ball detent in the Mandrel links that use small springs. If that happens to be a 0.125 diameter pin I know that a spring for the #6 mandrel link will be the correct diameter. As for length, it's a pure guess but I think that it would work.

Rick, if it is a 0.125 diameter pin you will want to do a Google search for Bend Tool Incorporated in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Get their phone number and ask for Steve. Tell him that you need an assembly kit for a #6 Mandrel link and have him ship it to you COD. Cost for the kit is about 3 bucks and shipping & Handling will be extra. What you will get is one spring, one 0.125 diameter ball, and one small snap ring. To play it safe you may want to order more than one kit in the event you lose a spring or find that you need to stack two springs to get enough length/travel. BTW, if you have to stack the springs put a ball between the two springs to act as a separator because wire springs this small may tend to intertwine together.

 

[mnrivrat]

No idea wether this will be of any help becasue the seller only shows the outside of the side plate . But for what it's worth Ebay #121619378829
auction is for some I frame parts including a side plate.

 

[Skeetr57]

I believe that the spring in question is smaller than 0.125" in diameter. The pin powered by that spring is not a simple round pin, but has a section that has a flat on one side the actuates the hammer block. I have had the pin, but not the spring out of one of these guns. I suspect that the hammer block will have to be depressed into the side plat to have clearance to remove the spring and to install it. A kinked spring should not require replacement of the side plate, only the spring.
The original design hammer block was changed in the mid 1920's to an entirely different method of actuating the hammer block that did away with the pin and its spring, a much better design that was used until 1945.

 

[glowe]

I did a quick sketch of the parts associated with the hand plunger and spring. Let's be clear on the functions of the parts in the sideplate of the Third Model. The plunger and the spring are there for two reasons. First it supplies a forward spring action to the hand as I had mentioned before. Second, it has a slot to control the action of the hammer block mounted vertically in the sideplate. To remove the hand plunger, you have to depress the hammer block and pull out the plunger.

My suspicion is that the damage to the plunger on the OPs gun happened when someone tried to force the sideplate closed and bent the plunger. There is some finesse required when putting the sideplate back in place, The hand must be all the way forward and the plate still might need to be moved around until the plunger aligns with the rounded slot in the back of the hand. Some pop right back, while others appear to have a slightly longer pin and need trial fitting of the sideplate until it snaps into place. I think the worst case scenario is that the OP may have to buy a sideplate for a Third Model just to get the parts. Rather than putting a mismatched sideplate on the revolver, just replace the spring and pin on the original, or have a gunsmith do it. I think it is a much better option than changing a major part on the revolver.