Awful news about the F-22!

[Texas Star]

F22 Raptor Exposed - Why the F22 Was Cancelled - YouTube


This news video says that the F-22 Raptor is a failure and a fraud and that no more will be procured.

Is there another side to the story?

The newswoman forgets that although the Soviet Union is now gone, the Russians still pose a potential threat, and can field very dangerous modern fighters. They can also sell those to other enemy nations.

We may be in a real mess here, with a plane that needs many hours of maintenance to fly each hour. And that is so fragile that a rainstorm may damage it and that is too fragile to expose to ground fire in infantry support missions.

Just the info about the pork barrel problems with making parts in so many states suggests that our own selfserving congress may be our most dangerous enemy!

 

[fat tom]

F22 Raptor Exposed - Why the F22 Was Cancelled - YouTube


our own selfserving congress may be our most dangerous enemy!

So,who don't know that?
f.t.

 

[427mach1]

Sensationalism at its finest. Don't believe everything you hear or read, especially if a reporter is involved. 'Nuf said.

 

[venomballistics]

looks like your usual opinion piece based upon a few scattered facts and reinforced with BS anywhere the facts dont marry up.
yeah Im sure the F22 could spark quite a debate ... but not based on that dingbats half pack of lies.

 

[jlrhiner]

If I recall correctly, the Abrams, Bradley and Apache were horrific systems and far inferior to anything the rest of the world had.

Funny how that works

 

[Retired W4]

If I recall correctly, the Abrams, Bradley and Apache were horrific systems and far inferior to anything the rest of the world had.

Funny how that works

You can add the V-22 Osprey to that list as well. BTW, I have heard that for the price of one F-22 you could re-engine the entire fleet of A-10s, and then some. I may be a little prejudiced on that issue as my son is an A-10 pilot.

Never fly the "A" model of anything. Wait for the "B" model to come out. The UH-60 went through a lot of growing pains along the way, but it is a fine aircraft.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I haven't heard of a real reason to scrap the latest F-18's yet and the few that I have known that have been in them had nothing but good things to say about them. But then I never did get the idea behind the JSF ideal for everyone to have the same platform. It still stinks of if it ain't broke then don't fix it. I don't like the idea of jack of all trades and master of none. The USN and USMC know what they need to get the job done and that is a different job than the USAF. That seems very much keep it simple stupid to me. But I'm just a lowly supply cog in the great wheel. What would I know besides hours of listening to what pilots, mechanics, contractors, vendors, and my own fellow supply pukes have to say??? Clearly I know nothing.

 

[feralmerril]

I cant say how much of that is true. I worked as a lockheed security guard 1965 to 2,000. I was there when dave fergeson flew it on its maiden flight and tom morganfield flew its secound flight. (Tom wore a gorillia head like hand ejectors), I was there when they got out of the cockpit all jazzed up over it. My close friends were flight line mechanics on it and I never heard any of this before and quite the opposite.
The northrup F-23 was the compitition. It was in the adjoining hanger at edwards AFB where I was assigned to guard the F-22 every night durring testing and fly off competitions between both. Of course the F-22 won.
Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 Black Widow II - fighter
Now just who in the world would belive that the pilots couldnt communicate with other planes? Thats a stretch! I sat listining to fergee talking to engineers myself as he done manuevers. How much of the rest that she said is bogus? I do NOT belive that bit about the rain hurting the skin either! Her figuers are about 10X more than the ones I had heard. I never overheard any such negatives working around the pilots, engineers, the assembliers or the flight line mechanics that worked on it, and I was on that program a average of 12/6 a week for several years.

 

[Diamondtreo]

I have worked the F-22 program here in Seattle for the past 12 years, beginning with the third or fourth production unit. We built 194 shipsets of wings & aft fuselage sets & delivered to Martin Marietta for assembly. Cost was the main factor as I understand the limitations of production. Any time the gubb'mint gets involved with a design or production run, you can bet the costs will go up.

As designs go, the more technically advanced the aircraft, the harder it is to build and maintain. Think of all the WWII aircraft that were designed and build in a short time - the F-22 was in the design phase for over 10 years before the first production unit hit the floor. We brought the cost of production for each unit down a factor of over ten times & would have still been cutting costs had we been able to fulfill the original order of 770 units.

It is a fantastic aircraft that does the job it was designed for in an exemplary manner. The problem with the oxygen system has been known for some time & will be fixed. As with all new military aircraft, stuff on the cutting edge has risk. Granted, the original mission may have evaporated with the end of the cold war, but apparently the Chinese haven't been told the news and are busy developing their own version of a stealth fighter.

Freedom is not free & we pay the cost in many ways. The F-22 program was one of these costs and hopefully will provide a technological base for the next generation of Warfighter's hardware.

Oh, by the way, that **** about it being a "dogfighter" is just that - ****. In reality, no enemy (at least in simulated combat) has ever gotten close enough to fire a missle, let alone see a Raptor.

 

[son-of-a-gun]

It's amazing what you come across when surfing YouTube.

I'd hesitate to call this news, especially since it's two years old.

And I certainly wouldn't call Rachel Maddow a news reporter because she is nothing more that a liberal pundit that works for MSNBC.

You can get the same entertainment value from SNL, BTW.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I guess I sounded like I'm raining on the F-22's parade. I don't mean to do so, I just don't know about the cost vs. the benefit of the program. I just don't see how anyone could expect one airframe to replace every other ones mission. If some Chinese threat were to come about then who is to say what is on the table would work against it? Mission specific aircraft have always been required since it's not so easy to make a bomber into an interceptor and the Air Force's needs aren't the same as the Navy's needs. I'm struggling to think of a real one size fits all approach that really works with anything at this level. Now let the Chinese start slipping up and we find out specs in a new plane that we have to find a way to defeat and this all becomes another mission specific threat that I can wrap my mind around. I'm sure the F-22 is a fancy flier indeed, but our need for it escapes me besides something "newer and better".

 

[427mach1]

We built 194 shipsets of wings & aft fuselage sets & delivered to Martin Marietta for assembly.

I think you meant to say Lockheed Martin, in Marietta Georgia. This is where the final assembly occurred, and where I have worked for the last 25+ years. The final aircraft rolled off the assembly line last week.

 

[Diamondtreo]

I think you meant to say Lockheed Martin, in Marietta Georgia. This is where the final assembly occurred, and where I have worked for the last 25+ years. The final aircraft rolled off the assembly line last week.

Yep, sorry about that. I was just ticked off about all the badmouthing & misinformation that has been associated with this program & didn't proofread my text well enough. You guys back East have the fun job - heck, we never get to see one fly! I think they have flown in operational units once or twice over the years, but I had to go to the Reno Air Show three years ago to see a real demo flight. I have been here at Boeing for 30+ years & I can say this has been the best program I have worked so far! John

 

[427mach1]

I was just ticked off about all the badmouthing & misinformation that has been associated with this program

Me too. It is cool to see them flying around on their pre-delivery test flights.

 

[Retired W4]

Me too. It is cool to see them flying around on their pre-delivery test flights.

I spent my last four years of service flying the Army's UC-35 out of Dobbins and it was a hoot watching the F-22 do its run-ups and flight control checks. When they run those engines up it feels like an earth quake. The whole base would shake. I did not see it fly much. It would take off for Edwards or where ever, and join up with the escorts. Then off for the acceptance flights where they really do their stuff. When it comes down to it, I would rather have an F-22 Wing than not. Time will tell.

Mach1, did you happen to see our JetStar II at the 50th anniversary party?

 

[mtheo]

If they are as smart as they are supposed to be I assume this cancellation is about something new coming along with no cockpit.

 

[M3Stuart]

Gadzooks!

You mean that I CAN'T believe EVERYTHING on the INTERNET?!?

 

[427mach1]

Mach1, did you happen to see our JetStar II at the 50th anniversary party?

No, unfortunately I didn't. I was out on the left coast for much of the year on an assignment (146 days, but who is counting?) and didn't see any of the anniversary celebration. What can you tell me about your Jetstar - is it flying? There is a Jetstar at the air museum that they are working on at the corner of Atlanta Road and South Cobb Drive.

 

[sipowicz]

It's a good plane but the stewardess quarters are quite cramped.

 

[cass]

If there's any blame for the F-22 contract cancellation, the blame has to be shared equally between Lockheed Martin and the Air Force. General Dynamics (the original designer) and Lockheed over-designed the aircraft in ways nobody would ever believe. (Imagine a small dime-sized washer for over $1000) . The Air Force demanded changes almost daily, some of them of a structural nature, and didn't/wouldn't provide funding for the changes. The common belief on the Lockheed factory floor was that it was a doomed program. The JSF is following in the same steps, with basically the same incompetent management. Only difference is that one of the aircraft's customers is the Navy - and history shows that the Navy and Ft Worth Lockheed cannot work together - ever. The JSF program will be cancelled next.