Battle Of The Bulge

[Ogandydancer]

My FIL served and he would sit and talk to you all day long about the good parts , like when he ran a barbershop in Grimms Castle and when he hunted and killed deer and cooked for his Co. He loved to hunt and fish and cook until he had a stroke just a few years prior to his death.

These people deserve our honor and respect till the day we die.

 

[cmort666]

I dunno, the larger goal was a good idea, but it did hinge on taking Bastogne. Single point failures in battle plans are often overlooked.



Bodenplatte failed because the Luftwaffe were so afraid of leaks that they failed to tell the flak crews what was coming. It's estimated that 30% of the German losses were to their own AAA because of this.

By that point in the war, short of a considerable supply of tactical nuclear weapons, NOTHING the Germans were actually capable of doing was going to get them a negotiated settlement, much less victory. By the time of the Bulge, Germany was simply doomed.

All Bodenplatte was going to do was destroy easily replaceable aircraft at the cost of irreplaceable aircraft, fuel and pilots.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

The Bulge gets a lot of attention due to its dramatic nature, the Germans suddenly striking back, the annihilation of the 106th Infantry Division, the 101st at Bastogne, etc. Overshadows the Battle of the Huertgen Forest, which was much more drawn out and from our side, much less successful.
It has been aptly described as "Hitler's Last Gamble" and had little chance of succeeding. The attack was not made in enough strength, the objective-Antwerp-was much too far away, the Germans weak logistical and transport plan quickly broke down.

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

Correction to my post #30. Cousin's name was: MARSHALL NEAL PEEK, 423rd Infantry

"Dad served in World War II, in the army. He was captured (along with his platoon) during the Battle of the Bulge at St. Vitte, Belguim. He was in a prison of war camp for 6 months, and listed as "missing in action." He lost 60 pounds, from 160 to 100 pounds.
When Aunt Ethel received the telegram stating that he was alive, she ran to Grandma and Grandpa Peek's house to tell them.
When Grandma Peek found out, she screamed and danced around the kitchen, and ran to the field to tell Grandpa Peek.

From a note written by Janette XXXXX, 1994.

Marshall died at Good Shepherd Hospital (April 1984) in Longview, Texas of a heart attack. He is buried at Eagle Creek Cemetery, Harleton, Texas."

Have a blessed day,

Leon

 

[cherrypointmarine]

I was reading the paper and as usual I read the obit's . A gentleman by the name of Frank E Kipp had died and I started reading . He had been at the Battle of the Bulge and survived with severe wounds . I'm sure there's not many of these brave soldiers left , and that's a shame . They put it all on the line knowing there wasn't much of a chance of living . They truly were a big part of the " Greatest Generation ."

 

[Absalom]

It has been aptly described as "Hitler's Last Gamble" and had little chance of succeeding. The attack was not made in enough strength, the objective-Antwerp-was much too far away, the Germans weak logistical and transport plan quickly broke down.

To put the offensive in context, it is important to understand what "succeeding" meant to the Germans.

There was the fundamental misconception on Hitler's part that the Alliance was at a breaking point. The goal wasn't so much to "defeat" the Western Allies, but to demonstrate the remaining German strength and maybe convince them to come to terms with Germany and, in the hopes of quite a few Nazi leaders, to join the fight against Bolshevism.

Of course that was utterly unrealistic, but it did not look that way from Berlin. Keep in mind that the US and British forces had needed 7 months to advance what is today a 6-hour drive from the invasion beaches. Even the vaunted Patton got stuck in Lorraine for three months, held up by not exactly the cream of the Wehrmacht in the fall of 1944.

So Hitler saw it likely more as a political gambit. That failed because for the Allies it was just another battle that needed to be won. And it was.

 

[22hipower]

Enjoyed reading the comments here; those who fought there certainly deserve the "Greatest Generation" description. I was a newly minted 2nd LT. on my first active duty assignment (VII Corps, Stuttgart) in 1974 working for an "old" (well, he sure seemed old at the time) Colonel. Art (Arthur B Evans) as a young private had jumped in with the 101st on the ill fated Market Garden operation in the Netherlands in September of 1944. He was wounded, briefly captured by the Germans, evacuated to England where he recovered just in time to go in with the 101st in Bastogne in December. Later served in Korea (commissioned there) and tours in Vietnam. That year there was a 30 year anniversary to commemorate Market Garden in the Netherlands and Art was invited to attend. They were going to do a commemorative airborne drop and the only reason Art didn't participate was because our VIIth Corps Commander (LTG George Blanchard) gave him a letter ordering him not to jump. Art passed a couple years ago; sure hope we're still making a few like him.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[ggibson511960]

There is an untold story about the Battle of the Bulge, recently revealed in Rick Atkinson's liberation trilogy. The Army steadfastly refused to use its most devastating weapon until faced with possible defeat from the German counterattack. What was it? The revolutionary Pozifuse. The Army feared a dud would fall into German hands and be quickly reverse engineered. The Navy had been using the weapon on anti-aircraft artillery with devastating effect on Japanese aircraft. The Pozifuse increased the hit probability by an order or magnitude. Proximity air burst rendered formerly safe trench emplacements far less safe. Artillery was the key advantage the Allies had in northern Europe. Airdales will dispute this, but we had no effective air launched weapons against heavy armor or dispersed troops. The Pozifuse changed this. German infantry refused to climb out of deep entrenchments for fear of air burst shrapnel. Another little known fact is that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg passed Pozifuse intelligence to the Russians.

I enjoy reading about this stuff now that governments and militaries are beginning to release classified documents. They spent a lot of effort protecting reputations by burying inconvenient stories and making up others.

 

[cmort666]

To put the offensive in context, it is important to understand what "succeeding" meant to the Germans.

There was the fundamental misconception on Hitler's part that the Alliance was at a breaking point. The goal wasn't so much to "defeat" the Western Allies, but to demonstrate the remaining German strength and maybe convince them to come to terms with Germany and, in the hopes of quite a few Nazi leaders, to join the fight against Bolshevism.

There was a lot of that magical thinking going around at the time. It's all the Axis had by then.

There was considerable belief in the Japanese hierarchy that Stalin could not only be induced to broker a favorable peace with the United States and Britain, but that the Soviet Union would switch sides and defend the Japanese. I know a lot of Germans were on meth, but the Japanese had to be on bath salts.

 

[cmort666]

There is an untold story about the Battle of the Bulge, recently revealed in Rick Atkinson's liberation trilogy. The Army steadfastly refused to use its most devastating weapon until faced with possible defeat from the German counterattack. What was it? The revolutionary Pozifuse. The Army feared a dud would fall into German hands and be quickly reverse engineered. The Navy had been using the weapon on anti-aircraft artillery with devastating effect on Japanese aircraft. The Pozifuse increased the hit probability by an order or magnitude. Proximity air burst rendered formerly safe trench emplacements far less safe. Artillery was the key advantage the Allies had in northern Europe. Airdales will dispute this, but we had no effective air launched weapons against heavy armor or dispersed troops. The Pozifuse changed this. German infantry refused to climb out of deep entrenchments for fear of air burst shrapnel. Another little known fact is that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg passed Pozifuse intelligence to the Russians.

I enjoy reading about this stuff now that governments and militaries are beginning to release classified documents. They spent a lot of effort protecting reputations by burying inconvenient stories and making up others.

The effectiveness of Allied close air support was primarily as a deterrent. It forced the Germans to move mostly by night and by covered routes, greatly limiting the timeliness and efficacy of their tactical and administrative movements. Tactical air may not have been that effective on armored vehicles, but it was hell on trucks, horse drawn wagons (which constituted a LARGE amount of Heer transport) trains and the like. Pilots on harassment and interdiction missions in Germany ran so short of targets, they started going after horse drawn farm wagons.

 

[Beemerguy53]

I was reading the paper and as usual I read the obit's . A gentleman by the name of Frank E Kipp had died and I started reading . He had been at the Battle of the Bulge and survived with severe wounds . I'm sure there's not many of these brave soldiers left , and that's a shame . They put it all on the line knowing there wasn't much of a chance of living . They truly were a big part of the " Greatest Generation ."

My best friend's father was a BAR man in the Army. He landed at Normandy just after D-Day, was wounded, recovered, and rejoined his unit. At the Battle of the Bulge, he was wounded so badly that he was not expected to survive...but he pulled through.

He came home, met and married the love of his life, became a mailman in Baltimore, raised five children...and never, ever talked in detail about the War.

When pressed, the only two things he would say were that a lot of good men on both sides died...and that after carrying that BAR around through Europe, his arms were 3 inches longer...

 

[bigwheelzip]

.... the US troops who faced the first onslaught, delayed the Germans with tenacious defenses, and made the stand at Bastogne possible.

So much great soldiering, defiant against the odds. These two "Bulge" battles, at opposite ends of the American losses column, are great martial feats, beyond Bastogne.

The deadliest single battle in American history is listed on Wiki as the Battle of Elsenborn Ridge, a part of the larger Battle of the Bulge campaign.
The Battle of Lanzerath Ridge that resulted in a single American lost in battle, is about a single 18 man recon platoon led by a 20 year old LT, tasked with holding a 5 mile gap in the front line between two allied divisions "At All Cost", against the 550 man force spearheading the 1st SS Panzer Division.

Battle of Elsenborn Ridge - Wikipedia

Battle of Lanzerath Ridge - Wikipedia

 

[Leslie Sapp]

I found out much too late in his life to talk to him about it much, But my Uncle Leslie, (one of the men I'm named after) was a 19 year old bazooka man in the battle of the bulge.
I remember him telling me the bazooka he had wasn't really very effective against German armor. Direct Quote: "A shot to the front would just go BAWAANG and glance off!" He thought the German panzerfaust was a much better weapon.

On the German army in general: "They were good soldiers and had good equipment, we just swamped them."

 

[Beemerguy53]

The cancer surgeon who saved my life was named after his uncle, Captain Clyde E. Price, a veteran B-24 pilot who was shot down and killed over France on March 8, 1943.

My sons' favorite teacher was named for his uncle, PFC James A. Brown, a 19 year-old paratrooper killed on January 4, 1945, during the Battle of the Bulge, on his first day ever in combat.

These two men, whose namesakes are so important to my family, are buried about 100 yards apart in the Ardennes-American Cemetery outside of Liège in Belgium. I've had the honor of visiting both of their graves...

 

[22hipower]

There is an untold story about the Battle of the Bulge, recently revealed in Rick Atkinson's liberation trilogy. The Army steadfastly refused to use its most devastating weapon until faced with possible defeat from the German counterattack. What was it? The revolutionary Pozifuse. The Army feared a dud would fall into German hands and be quickly reverse engineered. The Navy had been using the weapon on anti-aircraft artillery with devastating effect on Japanese aircraft. The Pozifuse increased the hit probability by an order or magnitude. Proximity air burst rendered formerly safe trench emplacements far less safe. Artillery was the key advantage the Allies had in northern Europe. Airdales will dispute this, but we had no effective air launched weapons against heavy armor or dispersed troops. The Pozifuse changed this. German infantry refused to climb out of deep entrenchments for fear of air burst shrapnel. Another little known fact is that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg passed Pozifuse intelligence to the Russians.

I enjoy reading about this stuff now that governments and militaries are beginning to release classified documents. They spent a lot of effort protecting reputations by burying inconvenient stories and making up others.

Nothing about the Pozifuse in this link as I remember but if anyone is interested in the history of a heavy artillery battalion that supported D Day, the Battle of the Bulge, was the first to fire on the German homeland and so much more, here is a link to 980th FA Artillery info from the perspective of one of the enlisted soldiers.

http://ww2f.com/threads/980th-field-artillery-battalion-pictures-training-to-germany.45192/

It was particularly interesting for me as I found it while researching the Battalion Commander (Harold Oscar Welch) who owned the only Registered Magnum I have which I now have the privilege to care for. Somewhere I have the day to day combat reports of the battalion from D Day to the end of the war if anyone is interested.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[BigBill]

There seems to be in war, surviving it, then don't talk about it. My stepdad was in Korea never said a word about it. My buddies were in nam don't talk about. I guess things are better left unsaid. My dad was a medic in the 40's in the army. His training was in Florida that's all I know. One buddy (airborne nam) says he picked up a rifle, qualified marksman then when in came home from nam he put the rifle down and hasn't picked up one since. That's all he said.
One co-worker reinlisted three times he was a door gunner in nam on a chopper. He has one room at home decorated like being in nam. I gather he's like the door gunner in FMJ movie. We must realize these vets went through hell.

 

[cmort666]

There is an untold story about the Battle of the Bulge, recently revealed in Rick Atkinson's liberation trilogy. The Army steadfastly refused to use its most devastating weapon until faced with possible defeat from the German counterattack. What was it? The revolutionary Pozifuse. The Army feared a dud would fall into German hands and be quickly reverse engineered. The Navy had been using the weapon on anti-aircraft artillery with devastating effect on Japanese aircraft. The Pozifuse increased the hit probability by an order or magnitude. Proximity air burst rendered formerly safe trench emplacements far less safe. Artillery was the key advantage the Allies had in northern Europe. Airdales will dispute this, but we had no effective air launched weapons against heavy armor or dispersed troops. The Pozifuse changed this. German infantry refused to climb out of deep entrenchments for fear of air burst shrapnel. Another little known fact is that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg passed Pozifuse intelligence to the Russians.

The Germans COULD have had an effective proximity fuse... if they hadn't had a half dozen or more labs working on every project, and made capricious decisions on which projects would continue and which would be terminated. Short term dead ends were pursued, and promising ideas with longer term development windows were terminated.

The wartime National Socialist "economy" was what the Brits call "a nonsense". Imagine what the Manhattan Project would have been with a bunch of rival meth cooks in charge.

What Speer did was amazing... especially considering he was fighting Germany AND the Allies.

 

[Absalom]

There seems to be in war, surviving it, then don't talk about it. My stepdad was in Korea never said a word about it. My buddies were in nam don't talk about. I guess things are better left unsaid...

One hears this a lot, but I have the suspicion that it is more of a cliche than anything.

Some time ago I spent quite a few years volunteering at a museum with a significant military collection where most of the other volunteers were old veterans, back then still going back to WW II; I think I've mentioned before that I actually worked with a B-17 pilot who bombed my former German hometown.

None of them had any trouble talking about the wars they were in if you asked the right questions respectfully; in fact, they'd talk your ears off.

One thing I learned was that many WW II veterans felt that nobody was interested in their experiences when they came home. Nazi - shmatzi, take off the uniform, put on that flannel suit or coveralls, pick up briefcase or toolbox and get on with life. That whole "Greatest Generation" thing and the respect we feel toward them today didn't emerge until quite some time later. I was surprised how often I heard some variation of that aspect.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

It's not somethings are best left unsaid, rather some people are not very articulate or good communicators, and military service has its own language-as do we. If I said I just found a nice 5 screw M&P, many here would go ooh and ah !, outsiders would go Huh ?
The Bulge was very dramatic, had its moments of heroism, Bastogne, e.g., it's atrocities-the Malmedy Massacre, the Wereth 11, events such as Patton pulling 3 divisions out of line and sending them north, all the rear echelon types who suddenly found themselves on the front lines. I read an account by one officer who gave an M-1 rifle to an artilleryman who now had to function as a rifleman-the GI said he'd never seen one before. He joined the Army in 1941, they really didn't have Basic back then, you were assigned to a unit and got you basic there. His unit still had the M1903.
Intelligence failures ? The Germans learned from us-strict radio silence, they set up a phantom 25th Army, 1st Paratroop Army, let them generate radio traffic.

 

[Kinman]

I had an old buddy that past this year, he was at the Bulge. He worked in the motor pool as a mechanic and drove around in a jeep keeping vehicles running, etc. He told of how they learned early on to never put the windshield up because of the shattering glass. One of his stories regarded he and his partner sent out to get something running, they had a vague idea of where they were going but nothing concrete. He said they barreled down a road and hung a hard right, right in front of them was a Panzer with its barrel pointed right at them, Will said he slammed on the brakes and hit reverse so fast his buddy almost went over the hood as he sped backwards out the way they came. He reported the Panzer but was told it had been knocked out.
I had an uncle that married into the family, he was 2nd generation Italian/American and was a true prince of a guy. He had lied to get into the Army at sixteen, he was also at the Bulge but had been taken under the wing of his platoon Sgt. also Italian/American who told him "I'm gonna make sure you get back home to your Momma kid." He said that every time he would try to get a look at what was going on outside their foxhole the old Sgt. would shove him back down into the hole. He said "About all I saw of the Battle of the Bulge was the fat butt of my Sgt." He did say that the shelling was beyond belief and that he understood why guys cracked, it never let up.