"Battle" rifle discussion ...

I own 160 acres. I can pretty much see 1/2 to 1 mile in any direction.

My Colt AR 6601. It is well scoped, plenty of ammo, reliable and accurate.

I would like to have a 6920 for running and gunning if needed.

For the window port I'll keep my pre 64 Model 70 in 270 Win or my 300 WBY handy. Someone above said most folks can't hit past 150 yards. They may be right but I have a couple of rifles that can make me look like a better shot.

With these two rifles one would be 350-400 yards short of the 150 yard marker at demise time.

Close to the door is shotgun and buckshot time.

All the old antique battle rifles from 110 plus years ago, you know the ones that replaced the single shot Martini's and Trapdoor Springfield's, that have to be manually operated with a bolt may have been good in a trench for a rifle squad but today's battle ground is drastically different. Peek around a corner, shoot, jerk back turn the bolt, peek back. There is a high probability the gent with the semi auto that reloads all on it's own will probably be set for the 2nd shot.

Hunting or ambushing a few insurgents might be a bolt thing but the Garand did prove to be the best battle rifle which further solidifies the semi auto theory. Make mine an AR in 5.56 or a Garand or a plain old Browning sporting rifle in 308, 30-06 or 270 Win.
 
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Weight and maneuverability are the issues when you are caught in urban unrest. With the possible exception of the SOCOM any 7.62/.30 cal caliber rifle is just going to be too big and heavy for use over an extended period. Remember you also have to carry the ammo, as well as the gun. One thing in favour of a weapon in that class is that it reduces much of the "cover" in the US to "concealment".

An intermediate caliber weapon like the AK, AR or SKS makes more sense weight wise. They won't punch through brick like a heavier round, but they'll do a number on cars and stucco homes. Even 5.56 with the right ammo and a proper length barrel will penetrate quite well.
 
POU, POU,POU... that is what it all boils down to. And while I think the 308 battle rifle is a great tool, the ergonomics of the AR make is a better overall platform when combined with a 308 bolt gun for the long distance stuff. Add a 9mm Glock and you are ready for any civil disturbance.
 
The older I get the lighter I like them. Ed Heineman, designer of the A-4 Skyhawk claimed that in designing the plane his goal was to "simplify and add lightness". The man had a point. So these days an AR with lightweight everything seems a good idea.
 
Trying to defend a position is a losing proposition - staying on the move is a best bet especially when you are familiar with the area. I'd have to say the weakly little .22 rim fire with standard velocity ammo. If the bad guys are at 300 yards I'm thinking a flanking move and use surprise and cover. A kill at 300 yards with a battle rifle will give them the idea to flank you. Unless you have enough buddies to help watch all directions your cooked one on a few.
 
trap4570 said:
Trying to defend a position is a losing proposition - staying on the move is a best bet especially when you are familiar with the area. I'd have to say the weakly little .22 rim fire with standard velocity ammo. If the bad guys are at 300 yards I'm thinking a flanking move and use surprise and cover. A kill at 300 yards with a battle rifle will give them the idea to flank you. Unless you have enough buddies to help watch all directions your cooked one on a few.
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A lot to be said for a 22. Much more versatile than larger calibers. That said, it's not much of a battle rifle. My AR's the obvious choice. It's what I depended on in Vietnam and would be the one I'd grab first. With other calibers ammo could become hard to find. 223 will be available, by hook or crook.
 
Donn said:
A lot to be said for a 22. Much more versatile than larger calibers. That said, it's not much of a battle rifle. My AR's the obvious choice. It's what I depended on in Vietnam and would be the one I'd grab first. With other calibers ammo could become hard to find. 223 will be available, by hook or crook.
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A man can get a LOT of 22lr ammo in his pocket!
 
Go jogging every morning with a M-1 Garand !
Holy Moly, you are a stronger man than me, even when I was young and slim.




brucev said:
Given the parameters outlined, i.e., urban unrest, rioting etc., I'd just reach over to the end of the couch and pick up my M-1 Garand. I carry it every morning when jogging/walking. It is about as light and easy to manage as anyone could want. Stuff it full of some nice M-2 AP and put a roll of duck tape in your pocket. You'll be able to fix just about anything you might end up facing!

In fact, if the truth be told, for a actual urban meltdown type situation, a 15-22 and a backpack full of loaded magazines would also work real well. After all, in a urban environment distance is not going to be the problem. Most folks are not going to want to stand up and take a round. With a 15-22 you could put accurate fire onto a target and carry a pile of ammo while running, ducking or anything else that might be necessary. Of course the smart thing would be to take that 15-22 or whatever rifle you were going to use and go to ground, i.e., get out of sight and stay out of sight.

If the situation is something more like Red Dawn 2.0, then I'd grab the M-1 and all the ammo I could carry. Soon as I found a loose AK-47... I'd swap for it and resupply with ammo from folks who no longer needed it.
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The only negative that I found with the SOCOM 16 was its weight. Though perfectly balanced, it was heavy, and all those mags filled with .308 added extra poundage. There will always be a trade-off, so it's simply a matter of deciding on priorities and going from there.

Personally speaking, trailing the Kalashnikov and SKS would be a Swiss K31 I picked up from the consignment rack a year + back. Those Swiss riflemen stayed out of trouble, but had some formidable hardware to work with. The K31 has rather pronounced recall with a steel butt plate, yet its unique bolt action and manufacturing quality have really impressed me. Fortunately I came away with a few hundred rounds of 7.5x55 in the deal.

I came to appreciate vintage military rifles late in life, but am confident that most (from Garands to Enfields to SKSs) perform as well against the current competition as they did in the past ... and are often far more cost effective than any new offering.
 
I am not a military expert. I was in the Air Force and my experience in Viet Nam was to defend a position. I had a M-16 that was not a weapon I trusted. I used a M-1 carbine and a Remington 870 riot gun.

Now I have a Rock River M4 carbine. I fine it to be a fine rifle and would trust it. But I also have a 2 M-1 carbines that I trust.

I am old and fat and have a bad back and bad knees. So I am going to be the guy that slows down the onslaught of the urban crush.
 
Faulkner said:
The US almost had a nearly perfect battle rifle with the M14, then someone had the bright idea to make it full auto and just about ruined it.

There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to combat arms.
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I carried an M-14 30.06 semi auto in Vietnam and it was an excellent weapon. I never had any trouble with it. Would love to have one in my collection today. :)
 
Walkin' Jack said:
I carried an M-14 30.06 semi auto in Vietnam and it was an excellent weapon. I never had any trouble with it. Would love to have one in my collection today. :)
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M14 in 06? Never seen one....lots in .308 though...

As to the OP, I'll take whatever is handy. I keep my little Zastava near by....
 

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My norinco m14 in 308win/NATO is for long distance. I can dope all my 308/338/30-06 scopes out to 500yards with no error. These are "battle rifles" the smaller calibers are assault rifles. I don't expect to need these. I purchased plenty of 22cal. Ammo to put meat on the table if need be. My bug out place is in the wilds of the green mountains. We tried the can bread during thanks giving just to see what it tastes like. It's a very strong brown bread. You just open the can and you have bread ready to eat. A can of tuna and your good to go. I have a oven for the top of the Woodstove too. And plenty of king Arthur bread and cake, cookie mixes. I have brownie mixes too. I stashed away seeds for the garden too. It's all about survival. Not just bullets.
I'm going solar soon too. A 12volt system for lights and well pump. The inverters can do the rest. Don't forget the toilet paper. Radios? Two way? We all need to stay in touch. From the guards up high to the cooks.
I hope the day never comes remember we're all Americans.
God bless, bill

After every outing I play with my handguns at the 100yds berm to see how much Kentucky windage is needed with my cz in 9mm to hit small rocks on the berm. I use 3' of Kentucky windage to hit anything I want on the berm. This proves we don't need a rifle under 100yds.
Don't waste ammo.

If the stuff hits the prop we will see the outsiders like NATO forces in our country doing marshal law.
 
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A10 said:
M14 in 06? Never seen one....lots in .308 though...

As to the OP, I'll take whatever is handy. I keep my little Zastava near by....
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I saw a few of those puppies at the gun show Sat--cant remember prices but seemed fair to me. Nice choice.
 
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Faulkner said:
The US almost had a nearly perfect battle rifle with the M14, then someone had the bright idea to make it full auto and just about ruined it.

There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to combat arms.
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As far as I know, the M-14 was ALWAYS intended to be full auto. If you think that's a bad idea, its .30-06 predecessors mostly were too.
 
I think a 12 ga pump or semi auto loaded with buckshot is about as deadly as you can make yourself out to 50 yds or so.
 
M-1 Carbine

mg357 said:
M1 Carbine
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Good choice for close up but........
My Father, a 5th Div Marine cleaning out caves on Mt. Suribachi (Iwo Jima) saw a Japanese soldier hit 9 times with an M1 carbine and disappeared back in the cave.
 
Depends on a lot of factors... But if out and about on foot in the middle of a deadly violent riot... my Winchester Defender pump 12ga comes to mind.

If it is a more prolonged general collapse where stealth might play an important role... my next project is suppressed 300 AAC blackout. But what I have now.... My general purpose choice would be my AR with 1x red dot.
 
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jimmyj said:
Go jogging every morning with a M-1 Garand !
Holy Moly, you are a stronger man than me, even when I was young and slim.
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Let me make it clear, I am not running. It is just a slow jog... maybe a trot. My brother used to call it a shuffle. I just move along at a steady pace. I shift the rifle from port arms to trail arms in the right and then left hand. I combine this w/ some situp's and pushup's. The happy thing about carrying the rifle is that it gives me a grip like Tarzan. This is very helpful when shaking hands with a man who wants to really clamp down.
 
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