Beginners' question on target shooting

[Harley Fan]

OK, I didn't know where to put this thread, so I picked the Lounge. Mods: please move if necessary.

My son and I both are new to shooting... the target below is typical of how I'm doing with my Smith 686 with 4" barrel. Well, OK... this is one of the better ones.





My question is this- the shot in the 8 ring at roughly 5:00 o'clock is my first round. It seems that's a trend for me- my first round goes somewhere, and the next five are much better.

I'm left handed, so (compensating for the mirror) the analysis chart says "jerking" and I don't feel I'm doing that. My Smith has had trigger work on it and takes little effort in single action.

I might also point out that although I was shooting .357 Mag, they were my reloads and were "middle-of-the-road" loading, pleasant to shoot, and not at all the factory "boomers" I've
shot. The majority of my re-loads are .38 Sp and this target just happened to be .357.

I can also say that the first shots don't always go to the 5:00 o'clock direction. They just go somewhere other than the center.

Any thoughts, folks?

Thanks!

 

[Alpo]

Anticipating, is my thought.

You expect the gun to recoil, so you try to hold it down, to compensate for the recoil. You anticipate the recoil, and jerk the gun down just before the hammer falls. This invariably makes you shoot low.

I've not heard of it happening on the first shot, but not the others. It normally starts after the first shot or two, as your body tries to hold the gun down level.

I suppose your body could be remembering it as more recoil than it really is, so jerks hard, and then after the first shot thinks, "Oh, it don't kick that hard" and quits jerking.

Is the low shot the first of every cylinderful, or just the first of the trip?

 

[11B Lifer]

Variables

First-I'd say you're a good shot!
If you're confident that your sight picture and grip are consistent-then I'd consider the next variable: trigger pull-after that first round you may be adjusting (settling in) the muscles in your finger and hand. At 10 yards it only takes a millimeter of trigger finger movement to "pull" the round.
On the range: have someone coach-call your shots-follow through
At home: use snap caps and dry fire-if possible use a laser round or system.
Have an expert instructor coach-I instruct but learn something new all the time from the folks who compete.
Safety above all else!

 

[H Richard]

Suggestion. Have someone else load your revolver, and leave 1 or 2 chambers empty and don't let you know which chambers they are. Have you fire and see what happens when the empty round comes up. If you're jerking it will show up.

 

[Moonman]

Many people THINK, that they are not JERKING, but a dummy round usually proves otherwise.

You could also LOAD 6 rounds but shoot the first round OFF THE TARGET, then check the remaining 5 shots position.

 

[gunfish]

Welcome. Keep shooting. Seems like a decent group, especially for new shooters. I would suggest shooting at 25yd range now. Longer range will open up the group and give better feedback on good and poor technique. I am not an exceptional shot but here is a pic of one of my better efforts. Your group would look more like this and maybe better. Zen like calm and awareness helped me.

 

[brucev]

Get a piece of xerox paper and tape it up on a wall, corkboard, etc. Put a black thumb tack right square in the middle. Now stand on the other side of the room. Take your 686 and make absolutely certain and sure that it is not loaded. Put a dime on the top of the barrel. The dime will allow you a physical proof of how steady you are holding your revolver. It is helpful in single-action shooting and even more helpful in double-action shooting. Try your best to keep the dime balanced on the barrel throughout the process of dry-firing a shot.

Raise the revolver to your normal shooting position and sight it at the "target." The thumb tack will give a good idea of a bullseye on the front sight at normal shooting ranges. This will help you with your own understanding of how everything should look when you are practicing on the range. Practice ten or maybe fifteen careful dry-fire shots in single-action. Then, do the exact same thing in double-action. Maybe later in the day or evening, repeat the process. Do it every day. As you build your stamina/muscle memory, etc., you can extend things to maybe fifty dry-fire shots. Limit sessions so as to avoid loss of focus and concentration.

Learning to shoot a handgun well takes time. The process is greatly accelerated by the careful use of dry-fire practice. It is the one single thing that anyone can do. The time and effort invested will pay great dividends when doing live fire on the range or when out hunting in the woods/fields.

Another suggestion. Find a S&W 18, 17, 617 and buy it. These are exceptional quality .22 LR revolvers. They will very closely compare to the handling and shooting qualities of your 686. Practice with these type revolvers will allow you to develop your live-fire shooting skills at a much reduced cost. Given that these revolvers are chambered in .22 LR, you will not be dealing with issues of recoil, etc. You will be better able to focus on fundamental marksmanship skills, i.e., grip, sighting, trigger pull, follow through.

Starting out, you might want to begin shooting at 7 yds. Once you can shoot a nice, round group, move back to say 10/12 yds. Shoot slowly and deliberately. Do not get in a hurry. As in golf, if you make a poor shot, remember that it has no influence on the next shot. Focus and concentrate on each round fired. Once you have mastered shooting at 10/12 yds., move on out to 15yds., then 20 and 25yds. In each case the process is the exact same.

 

[G-Mac]

Any thoughts, folks?

I see that four shots (including the three-holer), seem to be just a tad high. If this is typical, perhaps consider adjusting the sights to bring the group down a smidgen.

 

[Jessie]

Cold barrel syndrome?

 

[Harley Fan]

Thanks all for these replies. As I'm a new shooter AND a newby re-loader as well, I've gleaned much on the re-loading side of this forum, with care, warnings, and advice. I've several times cut-pasted posts and saved them off in my re-loading records.

I'll refer to this thread going forward and I thank you for it.

I'm heeding the safety aspect as much as possible. I've been riding motorcycles 41 years, and every time I throw a leg over, I think, "This'll be fun, but this thing can kill me."

Ditto the shooting.

~~

I dug thru my Photobucket for some examples, remembering I recorded some "Shot #1's" on some targets. And YES some are low, but not always. These were taken at the very start of my shooting.





~~

My son is shooting his new Glock when we both go, and nowadays (I've retired the antique Walther) I'm using the 686 and my new-to-me model 10-5 snubby.

As I've tried to focus on what I'm doing, I've been with my son, shooting all three firearms, and I admit our trips have more focused on fun, rather than training.

Our last trip, I was delighted that my son finally made great strides in his accuracy. And I freely admit his Glock 17, when I shoot it, is like holding onto mayhem. I'm just not a semi-auto guy.

 

[Moonman]

Harley Fan,

The 686 has a nice flat on top of the barrel to place THE DIME.
Due as brucev says,

Tape a target to a wall, aim at a DOT, run the trigger DOUBLE ACTION,
slowly squeezing.

With DRY FIRE practice you'll be able to keep the SIGHTS stay on target, and

THE DIME stay on the top of the barrel as the trigger cycles.

****** TRIPLE CHECK THAT THE FIREARM IS UNLOADED!*******

GOOD SHOOTING
.

 

[H Richard]

When I used to help train deputy sheriff's, we used a nickle but for double action training. To me the dime is too thin and will just cause frustration.

 

[rwsmith]

New to shooting??

Welcome to the happy shooting range. Looks like you are off to a good start except for the first shot, that's a nice group. I like your choice of pistol. Nowadays, in addition to the above tools you can get your son to video you to see if you are doing anything 'funny'.

 

[venomballistics]

looks kinda like random types of flinch.
You can shoot that gun ... now we just gotta get you to remember that you can shoot that gun

 

[joeintexas]

I think you shot pretty darn good! I also shoot a 686 from time to time and I sure don't shoot any better than you did, probably not as well. Lose that 1st flier and you're on target!

 

[Harley Fan]

Well, I got to the range this morning with my son. I had my Smith 10-5 snub, my 4" 686, and Aaron had his Glock 19.

I'd positioned the dime as instructed by several, both last night and this morning. And I indeed see its reasoning. Takes a steady hand to keep Mr. Roosevelt in one spot.

We got to the range. And I then discovered something, after we left. I think it's a flinch/jerk. If I focused, most shots seemed OK. Let your focus wander? Get a flier.



Right out of the gate-



But today, it didn't seem like shot #1



My best-

 

[Harley Fan]

Several observations, after I've thought some of this over... first, I can't tell you how much fun my boy and I have had since we've both started shooting.

I've poured a great deal of effort, reading, learning, and thought in the re-loading end of this hobby. I've adopted some very nice target loads for both this 686, and the new-to-me 10-5 snubby.

I've learned how to clean brass, and spent a lot of time carefully learning how to clean both these Smiths.

And just not done all that much on the actual shooting side. Thinking back, I've devoted a lot of reading, listening, and thought to safety, as it should be. And then there's the "put holes in paper" part.

I know this- it's fun! And (although I won't tell my son this) my next range visit will be done solo. AND with only the 686. I found that as I shot a target or two, I'd then switch to the snub and do some double action stuff. And put a few rounds through that most puzzling of devices- a Glock 19.

Fun as that is, I'll do better solo, and with one revolver.

 

[chud333]

Do you clean after each grouping or just at the end of your days shooting session?
When i shoot for groups with my rifles i always pick a spot on the target away from the bull to shoot my first round, (fouling round).
Then i'll shoot my group at the designated bull.
There is something to be said for shooting a fouling round "before"
you shoot for your best group.
This first round will heat up the barrel and also remove any lube/oils
left in the barrel from cleaning. Stands to reason this round might
impact at a different point.
Try shooting your first round into the ground or at something besides
your target if outside. Then shoot your "group" and see if this helps.
It seems to help me when shooting my varmint rifles.

Chuck

 

[Harley Fan]

Thanks, Chuck... Matter of fact, before I shot any target at all, I put 6 rounds in the empty cardboard backing before I tried for any target, to warm things up.

 

[Maze 686]

The trick is to have your sight picture before, during, and after the shot.

One way to do this let the shot surprise you. You can have this happen by counting the clicks that you hear as you press the trigger to the rear. In double action you should be pressing the trigger slow enough to hear three clicks for target shooting.