Bekeart models and .22/32 HFT's

[huthike]

JSR, how about posts 89 and 90? Missed those. Thanks.


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[Hondo44]

Here's mine.
serial number 229900 on cylinder, barrel and grip frame.
wooden grips no serial number
gold medallions
no numbers on bottom of grips
cylinder not recessed
square blade rear sight
front sight high flat on top, no bead
large knob two step recess in barrel
no box
barrel marked 22 long rifle CTG
not lettered
S&W logo on right side
well worn blue finish.
Any comments appreciated.
regards Charlie

That's an early # to have the Patridge sight; a late shipper. Most HFTs in that range shipped in the teens, but the Patridge sight wasn't introduced until Aug.29, 1923. So one would think yours shipped after that.

But the stocks have gold medallions which ended in ~1920. Do the stocks have one screw or two?

This one needs a letter.

Are you sure there's no penciled # on the back of the right grip?
Use good light?

Sometimes a photo is needed to "see" the penciled #.

 

[Dr Charlie]

I can't see the number on your photo is there anyway you could draw a line around or under it to clarify for me? Are the numbers just above the cut? . However after reading previous messages I am almost convinced I can
see three penciled numbers on my grip. I know it needs a letter, I have two registered models I've put off lettering for years as well as a pre model 27, a triple lock in 45 Colt with an extra 45 acp cylinder... etc, etc.
Regards Jim from Dr Charlie

 

[Dr Charlie]

Jim, My gold medallion stocks have two screws. They also had a compass inletted into the bottom which was broken and smashed when I traded into it. I removed compass and filled the hole with wood trying match color. That may be the reason no numbers on bottom??

 

[0007]

Yep, small logo left side. Sorry missed it on my first post description.

 

[Hondo44]

I can't see the number on your photo is there anyway you could draw a line around or under it to clarify for me? Are the numbers just above the cut? . However after reading previous messages I am almost convinced I can
see three penciled numbers on my grip. I know it needs a letter, I have two registered models I've put off lettering for years as well as a pre model 27, a triple lock in 45 Colt with an extra 45 acp cylinder... etc, etc.
Regards Jim from Dr Charlie

It's horizontal in the lower right of the inletted portion, begins with a 5 and ends with a 9.

 

[Hondo44]

Jim, My gold medallion stocks have two screws. They also had a compass inletted into the bottom which was broken and smashed when I traded into it. I removed compass and filled the hole with wood trying match color. That may be the reason no numbers on bottom??

You have the extended target stocks, the norm for most of the HFT production which also dates it to pre 1920. But they may be replacements if not numbered to the gun.

Your serial is too high to likely have one of the 3000 assembly numbers. They were stamped on the bottom of the left grip only.

 

[Dan M]

James here is a shooter I just bought this week. Serial number 220403 shipped April of 1915. for $340 I couldn't leave it at the LGS. It came with the flap holster which looks Period correct.

 

[thadheth]

One more for your database:
SN 501426
Matching numbers on Frame, Barrel, Cylinder, and Right Stock (pencil)
Wooden, non-medallion stocks
Small S&W logo on left side
Non-recessed cylinder
Patridge front sight
Square blade rear sight
No box
Not lettered
Barrel marked 22 Long Rifle CTG
A couple of quick snapshots attached.

 

[s3dcor]

One more for your database:
SN 368449
Matching numbers on Frame, Barrel, Cylinder, yoke and star.
Wooden, non-medallion stocks
Small S&W logo on left side
Non-recessed cylinder
Round thin blade front sight with gold bead.
V notch blade rear sight
Not lettered
Barrel marked 22 Long Rifle CTG
No "Made in USA"

Purchased this today from a gun shop. Has been in the same family since new the consignee said she remembers shooting it as a little girl and she has had it in the dresser most of her life. It is in good shape except for barrel wear about 40% left. I think I overpaid at $700, Got caught with a spur of the moment deal and didn't do my home work. I figure about 1921-1922. Any more info will be appreciated.

 

[Hondo44]

You did ok, it's a 22/32 Heavy Frame Target from 1920 to 1923. It has the early sights that changed in ~ 1924.

Check backside of right grip for matching serial number in pencil.

 

[hibbs]

22/32 Survey

Jim, Here is some info on my two 22/32HFT.
#1. Sn.360309
#matching except grips #531070
mushroom ejector knob, w/ two step barrel cut
non recessed ejector
Paine front sight, "U" notch rear sight

#2. Sn. 360726 Now Engraved
# matching except grips #525976
barrel ejector knob w/ one step barrel cut
recessed ejector
patridge front sight, square notch rear sight
front sight now has gold bead added

I do not have shipping dates on either gun, can't seem to
find an opening to post them. Also no factory letters.

Richard Hibma
S&WCA 2062

 

[JSR III]

.22/32 HFT's or Bekeart models

I am still looking for additions to my database. If you own a .22/32 HFT or kit gun, please post the details here or supply photos of both sides of the gun. I am also interested in the last patent date and whether it has recessed chambers.

I have close to 2,000 entries and looking for more.

If anyone owns guns with butt stock numbers 1133, or 1693, I am searching for details on those two guns. I know that one is 163,3XX and the other is 163,6XX however without the complete serial number I can not get the ship date.

Thanks for your help with my homework assignment.

 

[Model52guy]

22/32 HFT

James,
I posted about this little HFT I bought a few weeks ago in another thread but thought I should add this to yours.
SN 441586. August 1926 ship date
I does have the "U" rear sight as it is numbered to the gun. All Matching numbers, including the stocks, except the front sight blade which is a home made brass piece. The front sight should have been a Paine Bead. Thought I might find one last weekend at the Tulsa gun show but I didn't.
I probably will post an ad in the wanted section for that.
George

 

[JSR III]

Thanks everyone for the additions. I got busy and hadn't been back for a while. I will try to update some of your posts and have a few questions. Rather than add separate posts, I will address all here.

thadheth- 501426 can't quite make it out. Does it have the "Made in USA stamp on the right side? It probably shipped in late 1929 or early 1930.

s3dcor- 368449 probably shipped in March, April or May of 1923

Model52guy- 441586 is late for the U notch rear and Paine front sight. Everything around yours has a square notch rear with a Patridge front. But with S&W you never know. If a customer wanted the Paine and they had it in stock they would oblige. If you want a Paine front sight reach out to Dumpster Don (club gun fan) as he has some and I think he has the pins too. Mic the base as he has many length pins.

hibbs- 360,309 and 360,726 should have shipped in early 1922.
But I also have 360,XXX guns shipping out in late 1921 and early 1923 so who knows.

huthike- 225072 probably shipped in late 1915 or early 1916.

0007- 517383 probably shipped between June and September of 1930.

Hopefully I got everyone buy since I'm old, please feel free to ask any questions that I failed to answer.

 

[JSR III]

Just to address a few things about these neat little guns.

There are dates when certain changes were ordered like Paine to Patridge front sights or the 2 screw extension stocks changed to the regulation police style and then back again to the two screw.

You must remember that S&W was in the business to make money and many of these items were available before, during and after S&W might have decided to institute a change.

If a customer wanted a Patridge front sight during the "Paine era" and was willing to pay any up charge if any, S&W would oblige. The 2 screw extension stocks were still available when they decided to offer the gun with the regulation police style. Again, if someone wanted the larger stocks, S&W would oblige.

I personally own a Bekeart shipped gun that went out in June of 1911 that has a Patridge front sight. I also have several others that went to other S&W distributors that also have the Patridge style.

So be careful when looking at these guns and using change dates to justify the legitimacy of a particular gun. With S&W one never knows for sure.

As an additional note, my research has pretty much concluded that the stock imprint numbers found on the bottom of the left stock never went higher than 3,000. The last guns to show up in my database with numbers in the 2,500 range are among the 490 guns shipped to MW Robinson in 1914.

The first 1,000 are found on the Bekeart guns and those shipped to others in 1911 starting with 138,226 and ending with 139,275. The second 1,000 appear on those guns shipped in 1912 in the 165,XXX and up range and the final 1,000 appear to be largely the guns including the MW Robinson 490 shipped in 1914.

After the last Robinson gun, 208,416, the next block to appear starts with 220,110 and I have none recorded thereafter where a stock sequence number was noted. FWIW.

 

[Drm50]

I am putting together a database of information about the Bekeart models and the subsequent .22/32 HFT's. I have close to 350 guns in the database so far and I am asking for your help to add any additional numbers to the list. I have obvious headings like serial number, stock sequence number, date shipped, destination, stock style, front sight, recessed chambers, condition and modifications/inclusions.

Things like bobbed hammers, knob style etc., are listed under the modifications.

If anyone has any that they would like to add to the list, please supply the details. Should you not want to post the information publicly, feel free to PM or email me and no names will be attached to any information.

If you own a .22/32 and just want to see if I have any information about your gun, please feel free to ask.

Many folks think that if their gun is numbered between 138,226 and 139,275 that it went to Bekeart, however, that is not correct. For example, 138,226 did not and neither did 139,274.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I have one I just bought off forum couple weeks ago. A low
quality refinish, shooter grade- so so lock up with a terrible bore.

 

[JSR III]

Drm50, I am a little confused. That same photo appears in post 108 above. Did you guys buy the gun together???

 

[992B]

James, 517386, 6" barrel, barrel type knob, non-recessed cylinder, target stocks with silver medallion, u-notch rear with rounded front sight with gold round dot on top, small emblem on left side and made in usa on right side. About 90% original bluing, excellent shooter. No letter requested. Gary

 

[thadheth]

thadheth- 501426 can't quite make it out. Does it have the "Made in USA stamp on the right side? It probably shipped in late 1929 or early 1930.

Yes, it is stamped "Made in USA" on the right side. Thank you for the shipping date information.