Benefits of Hammerless?

[KSDeputy]

I do not own a revolver without a hammer, and never would. Just personal preference. When we carried revolvers I always used Safariland IWB suede holsters. Never had a problem with a hammer snagging up. I used these holsters for every other handgun I own, as well. Until I discovered the Bianchi nylon fanny pack with secret holster. I use it all the time now. My semi-auto hammer never snags getting it out of it either, but I have always been very careful when drawing.

 

[DevilDog72]

and...

" A quality pancake style holster makes a real difference."

Who made that holster?

It is a Galco mdl SM122

 

[wrkerr]

Just curious, anyone ever actually have the hammer on a carry revolver get snagged on their clothing?

Anyone ever hear of it happening in a fight?

Not in a fight, but in qualification. The hammer on my M60 NY-1 snagged on my shirt with enough force to pull it right out of my hand. I went home and bobbed the hammer that very day. If I CC a wheelgun, it will be bobbed or concealed hammer only.

Concealed hammers were developed for the same reason ramped front sights became the norm...IMHO.

 

[Naphtali]

Gunsmiths who "bob" revolver hammers?

. . . . I've also seen revolvers unintentionally cocked trying to quickly get them out of the pocket during close-quarter force on force training. The idea that you can simply place your thumb over the hammer on the draw works well in calm, controlled environments, but not so much in a chaotic and dynamic ones. . . .

Since bobbing the hammer has been mentioned in this thread, who are gunsmiths who "bob" revolver hammers? I have an SP101 3-inch barrel that I believe would become more efficient were hammer bobbed while leaving enough spur (or snag resistant spur-like portion??) to effect a single action mode, using a small amount of trigger pressure to raise bobbed hammer enough for purchase to cock. I remember viewing a photograph of such a hammer and nodding as I thought how useful the bobbed hammer was.

But, of course, I do not have the photograph, nor do I know gunsmiths who do such work on SP101s.

 

[Protected One]

I have a Model 60-0 with the traditional hammer, but it was modified by the L.A.P.D. armorer so that it cannot be fired single action. Department Policy.

It will never be bobbed because the retention strap on the Bianchi holster I carry it in was made for a revolver WITH a hammer.

 

[chief38]

I prefer exposed hammers and trained myself to automatically place my thumb on the Hammer Spur when drawing the gun from either my OWB Holster or Pocket Holster. Been doing it this way for almost 40 years and have never had it catch on anything.

While the possibility of a single action shot is small in the heat of close quarter battle, I still like the option of a SA distance shot should the need arise. Just my personal preference.

 

[Rpg]

I much prefer the M38 M49 and their progeny to the hammerless revolvers. I find that they are easier to shoot well double action since I 'grip up' on them.

The hammer models (M36, M60) are a problem drawing from a pocket: they will catch and snag.

The idea of covering the hammer with your thumb while drawing slows you down since you have to shift your grip to establish a shooting grip after you get the gun out.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Working about six or seven years in the bag I rarely drew my M64 from its belt holster and never fired it. (Only time I ever used it on the job was from a vertical shoulder rig.)

Drew my M36 a bit more as an investigator, but again never fired it. A good quality holster that covers the hammer spur is essential in my opinion. I always prefered a horizontal shoulder rig, but have also worn pancakes on both strong and weak side, either together or with a shoulder rig. I have always used a snap closure. Using proper grip with thumb moving from snap to cover hammer spur as weapon is drawn. Never snagged coming out, never ripped a suit lining.

I always carried my M40 when I was able to on the job. (Since retirement its my constant companion; if it can't come, I don't go.) Sometimes in an ankle, sometimes in a pancake opposite my 36. But what I could do with the 40 I would never do with the 64 or 36. Tuck it into an EMPTY pocket, especially in so-so neighborhoods or in wintertime (instead of leaving buttons unbuttoned). The 40 (or 49, or I guess alu-minummm or scarry-um replicas of the same) can shoot through that pocket holster and/or jacket if need be.

Working undercover, suppression, anti-crime, I always preferred the 40 as my primary. It could be carried in a pocket or a more minimalist IWB rig and present more quickly. Although I spent less than half of my career in these endeavors, I had many, many, many occasions to draw my weapon. It was also these assignments where I would fire a weapon in the line of duty. Zero problems with the covered hammer design. Zero problems with a 12 pound trigger pull.

As to ability to fire accurate shots SA vs DA. A good DAO like the M40 can be easily staged for an accurate shot. Like a true two stage trigger on a rifle. Sight-stage-sight-fire. The longest shot I ever made in a real situation was into about an 8" tall 6" wide oval at about 90', dead on.

Just my $0.02.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Working about six or seven years in the bag I rarely drew my M64 from its belt holster and never fired it. (Only time I ever used it on the job was from a vertical shoulder rig.)

Drew my M36 a bit more as an investigator, but again never fired it. A good quality holster that covers the hammer spur is essential in my opinion. I always prefered a horizontal shoulder rig, but have also worn pancakes on both strong and weak side, either together or with a shoulder rig. I have always used a snap closure. Using proper grip with thumb moving from snap to cover hammer spur as weapon is drawn. Never snagged coming out, never ripped a suit lining.

I always carried my M40 when I was able to on the job. (Since retirement its my constant companion; if it can't come, I don't go.) Sometimes in an ankle, sometimes in a pancake opposite my 36. But what I could do with the 40 I would never do with the 64 or 36. Tuck it into an EMPTY pocket, especially in so-so neighborhoods or in wintertime (instead of leaving buttons unbuttoned). The 40 (or 49, or I guess alu-minummm or scarry-um replicas of the same) can shoot through that pocket holster and/or jacket if need be.

Working undercover, suppression, anti-crime, I always preferred the 40 as my primary. It could be carried in a pocket or a more minimalist IWB rig and present more quickly. Although I spent less than half of my career in these endeavors, I had many, many, many occasions to draw my weapon. It was also these assignments where I would fire a weapon in the line of duty. Zero problems with the covered hammer design. Zero problems with a 12 pound trigger pull.

As to ability to fire accurate shots SA vs DA. A good DAO like the M40 can be easily staged for an accurate shot. Like a true two stage trigger on a rifle. Sight-stage-sight-fire. The longest shot I ever made in a real situation was into about an 8" tall 6" wide oval at about 90', dead on.

Just my $0.02.

 

[diyj98]

I'm much prefer the option of having a hammer, but have had the hammer on my 637 snag a few times on my pocket while drawing it out of a pocket holster. That's why I installed a bobbed hammer.

 

[walkin' trails]

History recorded that John Wesley Hardin was pistol whipped and arrested by a Texas Ranger after the hammer of his revolver got snagged in his suspenders. He went on to serve prison time before being pardoned and moving to El Paso where John Selman shot him from behind.

I've never had issues with the hammers snagging anything but my belly (gouging actually). I've come to do all my shooting DA only and am just as accurate. I don't miss the SA on a small revolver, so having the option is not relevant.


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[ChattanoogaPhil]

None of my carry guns have exposed hammers, including my five-shot revolvers.

 

[rwt1405]

When I pocket carry, there is no way I am carrying a revolver with an exposed hammer, as for me, it will always be one of my 642's.

 

[ABPOS]

Since bobbing the hammer has been mentioned in this thread, who are gunsmiths who "bob" revolver hammers? I have an SP101 3-inch barrel that I believe would become more efficient were hammer bobbed while leaving enough spur (or snag resistant spur-like portion??) to effect a single action mode, using a small amount of trigger pressure to raise bobbed hammer enough for purchase to cock. I remember viewing a photograph of such a hammer and nodding as I thought how useful the bobbed hammer was.

But, of course, I do not have the photograph, nor do I know gunsmiths who do such work on SP101s.

You could probably call ruger and get one. They make the SP101 in DAO with a bobbed hammer.

To the OP, yes, I've gotten my Colt DS snagged on my shirt a few times practicing drawing from the appendix. I think it has the potential to be an issue in a real situation. I think I've had my Browning HiPower get snagged a time or two also practicing. It's not the ring hammer.

I wouldn't be opposed to having an exposed hammer for a carry revolver, but I would get it bobbed for sure.

 

[crazyphil]

A good reason for the concealed hammer that I don't believe has been
mentioned: Suppose you are holding the bad guy at gunpoint waiting
for the cavalry to arrive. If you have a hammer you might cock it without
thinking much about it. The SA would have a lighter trigger than the DAO
which you could not cock. In a high stress moment like this you could
accidentally shoot the bad guy.
Not a high possibility? Not much more so than snagging on the draw.
I have had several students relate several examples of holding burglars
at gunpoint. Have never had one report a discharge or other problem
from snagging on the draw.

 

[haywood]

Since bobbing the hammer has been mentioned in this thread, who are gunsmiths who "bob" revolver hammers? I have an SP101 3-inch barrel that I believe would become more efficient were hammer bobbed while leaving enough spur (or snag resistant spur-like portion??) to effect a single action mode, using a small amount of trigger pressure to raise bobbed hammer enough for purchase to cock. I remember viewing a photograph of such a hammer and nodding as I thought how useful the bobbed hammer was.

But, of course, I do not have the photograph, nor do I know gunsmiths who do such work on SP101s.

. I would call Ruger and send it to them.

 

[white cloud]

I have got a hammer spur caught in my shirt a number of times. A 649 or other Bodyguard series revolver gets around this and still lets me make more precise shots on unwanted critters around the farm. If I didn't have that requirement, a 642 would be great. My wife has one and I think it is a very slick little gun. I prefer either of these to any .380 automatic.

 

[federali]

I wish I could verify what I'm about to write but I seem to recall during the revolver days, NYPD suffered two separate shootings of perps who were under control when the trigger was squeezed on a cocked revolver. In one case, the perp was face down and took a fatal wound to the back of the head. The NYPD went to DA only before ultimately transitioning to semi-autos.

 

[silversnake]

The problem with many jframes today is that they are airweights and the triggers and be a run in excess of 12 pounds. This mismatch between weight of firearm and weight of trigger pull makes pulling the trigger and keeping the gun on target that much more difficult. It's probably okay for point shooting out to 12 feet but then again why make your life more difficult? Even revolvers were meant to be shot relatively accurately and shootists have been working on actions and lowering trigger weights probably since the beginning of handguns.

I sent my 638 and Chief's Special in to Oglesby and Oglesby gunsmith for lighter springs care of wolf and action job and to disable the lock. I also had the cylinders chamfered and smoothed and they even numbered the cylinders for me for free. They also dehorned the hammer nub and cylinder release etc.

Generally there seem to be two schools of thought on the trigger the lock Etc. One school which I'll call the Ayoob school says that double action is better and the trigger should not have lighter springs even to make the J frame more shootable and accurate for reasons of legal liability number one and reliability of hammer strike on hard primers number 2. The other issue is the lock that the Smith & Wesson and other companies put in during the Clinton administration.

The Ayoob School says don't disable the lock again for reasons of legal liability.

Opposing School says that no one has been prosecuted for making their J frame or gun in general more accurate to shoot and in fact you can argue that a more accurate gun is a safer gun. In terms of the lock while the odds are very very small that a lock would tie up a jframe and render it useless during a life-and-death situation Jframes have locked up from time to time especially if you have one of the airlites shooting something like 357.

I had an action job done and later wolf Springs put in so that my double action is now 9 plus pounds instead of 12 plus pounds and my single action is in the range of 3 pounds instead of 4 + pounds.

I had the work done by a nationally-recognized top gunsmith in the guild and had to sign a waiver before they would disable the lock. If I ever go to court I will have the gunsmith from Oglesby and Oglesby on the stand if necessary. I am also a member of the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network which will provide legal representation immediately if necessary. I have watched the videos they provide for training which can also be submitted in court for proof of competence and mindset.

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It may not be likely to happen but lightened revolver springs have come up in at least one trial (Luis Alvarez). But that was 35 years ago and I agree it would probably be very difficult for a prosecutor to make an issue of something that helps you shoot more accurately.

 

[Donn]

My old Model 49's the best of both worlds. Shrouded hammer won't snag, but I still have access to it for single action.