Berry's Hybrid JHP's - experience?

[Old Corp]

Got a decent deal on a quantity of Berry's bullets which they refer to a Hybrid JHP's in 10mm/180 gr. JHP and .45 ACP 185 gr. JHP's.

Do recall trying some plated HP's (Ranier?) some years ago in .45/230 gr. and they shot and grouped well, but expansion was near nil at typical upper-end .45 Auto velocities. (Clay medium)

There's several YT videos of people testing Berry's Hybrid JHP's in a variety of mediums - ordnance gel, water jugs, wet sand, etc. Results seem all over the board from behaving as a FMJ all the way to Speer Gold Dot emulating performance, i.e., excellent penetration and expansion.

One YT'er noted that Underwood ammo is now using the Berry's Hybrid JHP in place of formerly-used Speer GD bullets as their 'controlled expansion, bonded bullet'. Interesting.

I got them to see if they'll be a good, less expensive JHP for hunting or possible SD, but only if they actually perform as a quality JHP within their design parameters.

TIA!

 

[Alk8944]

I just looked through Underwood's web site and none of the cartridge descriptions or photos appear to be the Berry Hybrid bullets in any caliber. The closest I saw was ammunition loaded with the Hornady XTP bullets.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I tried a box of 9mm Hybrid 124 gr plated bullets in a 3.5 and 5" a few years back.

I tried a OAL of 1.09 out to 1.13" with ten different slow to fast powders.

I had trouble getting this bullet to feed, a few stove pipes and any type of accuracy that I was happy with.

Even the chrony numbers, were all over the place and the "Factory FPS"
has a very narrow window, with my testing.
I will not buy this bullet again, with other Berry bullets that do much better,
like the THP design, with a short OAL.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I have shot a couple thousand of them, but all were paper punching. I have no idea how they would expand in a "live" target.

 

[BB57]

I’ve gel tested both the Xtreme X-Def and the Berry’s Hybrid self defense hollow points. They work, but the velocity envelope where they produce good results is extremely narrow.

For example here’s a 124 gr 9 mm launched at roughly 1120fps. Expansion was great but penetration was a bit short.

At the lower end with velocities of 1030-1050 fps penetration was in the 18-19” range but expansion was almost non existent.

Just for fun I shot one out off an 8.9” MP5 at 1226 fps and the fragmentation was impressive, while penetration was about 6”.

There is probably a very narrow velocity range right around 1075-1100 fps where this particular bullet will give very good expansion and penetration but you’ll need gel testing to find that sweet spot and then a chronograph and careful load development for your specific handgun to consistently hit that velocity.


——


The regular hollow cavity plated bullets from both Xtreme and Berry’s just function like FMJs.

 

[Yendor357]

For me, plated projectiles are for paper and steel only.

I’ll hand load some hunting rounds. Some factory.

Self defense? Definitely factory.

I’ve had good luck with their 458, 350s for 45-70.
How is the accuracy with Berrys handgun bullets?

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I have reloaded some of their 124gr HHPs in 9mm with no problems, but have found both their 124gr HBRN-TP & HBFP-TPs to be excellent!

In 9mm, 357 SIG, and soon to try in 38 Super!

Cheers!

P.S. For SD I prefer Gold Dots, HSTs, XTPs, V-Crown, etc.

 

[WR Moore]

The articles that described the development of the Gold Dot back when made a point of mentioning that the bullet was plated. Which is why it's considered a bonded core bullet. The little dot at the bottom of the cavity is an artifact of the punching process that forms the cavity (and probably sets the OD). Could be that the magic is in the specs for the lead. Or, just maybe, licensing/patent issues exist.

I can't complain about the accuracy of the Berry's double struck bullets. I'm the limiting factor. Usually shooting SWC or flat points. The THPs cut a clean, reduced diameter hole but only expand on a steel plate.

A big thanks to BB57 for the gel pics & chrono results.

 

[gwpercle]

The Louisiana Swamp People say ... Choot 'Em !

The results of your test's should be very interesting .

It will be interesting to see how the Hybrid's hold up !

Thanks for testing them .
Gary

 

[GypsmJim]

The results of your test's should be very interesting .

It will be interesting to see how the Hybrid's hold up !

Thanks for testing them .
Gary

I will be interested as well.

A few years ago I made the mistake of buying a large quantity of Berry's for 3 different calibers before I actually tried them. Two of the 3 were undersized and gave poor accuracy. They customer service said they were "within specs". I dunno, I thought 41 mag was supposed to be .410, not .409.

 

[BB57]

I will be interested as well.

A few years ago I made the mistake of buying a large quantity of Berry's for 3 different calibers before I actually tried them. Two of the 3 were undersized and gave poor accuracy. They customer service said they were "within specs". I dunno, I thought 41 mag was supposed to be .410, not .409.

I have purchased Xtreme bullets more often than Berry’s but that’s an artifact of Xtreme being much more direct purchase friendly than Berry’s was for a long time.

But I’ve gotten good accuracy from both brands in .32 ACP, .380 ACP, 9mm, .38 Special, .357 Mag, .45 ACP, and .30-30 loads.

In fact, other than casting for my .45-70 Sharps, various .38-55s and a .54 caliber Sharps Berdan I don’t cast bullets much at all anymore. I also shoot very few commercial cast or swaged lead bullets any more. 158 gr LSWCHP are about it.

 

[WR Moore]

Decades ago, I read an article on bullet manufacture by someone who had been/was in the industry. He made the point that you might have a specific alloy blend of lead wire. But, if the required tonnage to keep the plant running wasn't available, you took what you could get. The closer to spec, the better, but production drove the purchasing.

If your core business is TMJ bullets for training/practice ammo, the lead alloy specs might not be ideal for expanding bullets.

If you're also making a brand/patented/licensed bullet under a major contract, they're getting the best possible material to meet contract requirements.

 

[BB57]

Decades ago, I read an article on bullet manufacture by someone who had been/was in the industry. He made the point that you might have a specific alloy blend of lead wire. But, if the required tonnage to keep the plant running wasn't available, you took what you could get. The closer to spec, the better, but production drove the purchasing.

If your core business is TMJ bullets for training/practice ammo, the lead alloy specs might not be ideal for expanding bullets.

If you're also making a brand/patented/licensed bullet under a major contract, they're getting the best possible material to meet contract requirements.

I’m a bit more cynical than that. Way back in the day I inspected my duty ammunition and it was amazing how often you’re find flaws. It’s still common today. For example the last two boxes of Remington HTP ammo I purchased each had two rounds per box of 50 with minor defects. That’s not quite boutique ammo but it’s not not cheap range fodder either and it’s marketed as self defense ammo.

Today, I both inspect my carry rounds and I do ballistics gel testing in my carry firearms with the ammo to ensure it performs as advertised.

For the most part I also gravitate toward designs that offer good performance in terms of adequate expansion and penetration over a wide velocity range.

It’s both the alloy in the core and the design of the bullet itself that affects performance and a better design will tolerate more variation in alloy hardness.

——

My cousin and his wife have run Black Hills Ammunition for over 40 years now. He’s generally had 18-24 months worth of back orders and has not expanded significantly to meet demand as he doesn’t want to hire, train and then lay off staff as demand changes, and I suspect he doesn’t want to deal with the larger problems of finding quality components for a larger production volume, or sacrifice quality for increased production.

When I lived in the area I frequently got factory seconds and I had trouble finding any flaws, and never found a flaw that was anything other than cosmetic. Their QA is phenomenal.

I know when they were developing a particular load for the dept of defense they switched bullets as their prior vendor would not make that bullet without a cannelure. It made a difference and he wasn’t willing to compromise and changed suppliers instead.

The problem with contract specifications is there has to be a rigorous test protocol in place for acceptance testing to ensure the bullets meet the requirements. The nominal specifications are only as god as the acceptance testing standards that ensure those specs are met.

 

[WR Moore]

You hit the nail on the head with the need for continuing QC verification. Our training establishment had an interesting collection of flawed ammo. Bullets backwards, primers upside down/sideways/not fully seated, no flash holes, no powder. Then there are/were case rims that look like puppies teethed on them-or weren't uniform in thickness.

Back in the early '90s Winchester drove itself out of the LE market with non-existent QC.

OK, when you produce billions of a product, there's going to be the occasional bad one. Makes the need to carefully check each round before inserting it into the cylinder/magazine mandatory.