best compromise to get started

[grendal2012]

Hi all ,I am new here so please be patient with me.I want to buy a weapon(s) for shtf,I am on a very small budget and while a saiga 12 and a .308 /7.62 battle rifle would be my first choices if I had the money for the weapon plus lots of ammo ,I dont. So I am considering something semi auto in a .22 lr and many thousands of rds ammo , the thinking being something is better than nothing at all and lots of shots are better than a few.Am I wasting my time,would I be better saving and getting something with some more punch? I am on @ a 4-500$ budget right now.
Thanks

 

[Bekeart]

For your 12 gauge look at Remington 870 and Mossberg 500.

Both are very reliable and you should be able to get a good price on a used one.

Bekeart

 

[A10]

As far as rifles go, think about a lever action, possibly in a handgun caliber. High capacity, accurate, adequate for taking medium size game.

 

[grendal2012]

I was thinking of a ruger 10/22, the 22.lr ammo is dirt cheap the rifle is under 200$ there are semi handguns also chambered in 22.lr a well
placed shot will do the job.I have no battle experience, I have heard complaints about even a .223 which is substantially more powerful tha a .22 LR .my question is do I go with the 22lr and get in the game immediately or wait and save for the shorgun or 7.62 and try and scrape enough dough to have a reasonable supply of ammo?I am just concerned that no matter how many rds I have of 22.it wont stop anything.There are .40 s&w rifles and pistols as well, but again the cost is going to limit the amount of ammo I can get.So is a .22 lr going to be effective enough or am I wasting my money?

 

[grendal2012]

As far as the shotgun I have owned both you mentioned ,both great weapons,I have never had a saiga shotgun but I like the idea of a box mag.Reloading would be much faster in a defense situation. Ogf course if you need more than 6 -8 you are probably in deep do do.

 

[grendal2012]

I am curious A10 ,why a lever over a semi with a box mag?

 

[GatorFarmer]

Are you going to carry a gun with you or leave it at home?

Go get a Mosin Nagant 91-30 and 2 spam cans of ammo.

Then go get a Hi Point 9mm and order spare mags as you can.

Make sure that your Mosin has the bayonet and sling, cleaning tools etc.

Then find a deal on a surplus IBA set up with at least the soft armor.

Mosin stays at home. Clean it with hot soapy water then oil it. It will kill anything. The Hi Point you can take with you.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Before you buy a long gun, you should first consider it's intended use.

Where do you live? How is your house situated? Can you see people coming from afar? Or are you in a heavily populated area?

Preferably a shotgun AND a rifle should be considered. But if you can't see em coming, and your defensive work will be at close range then a shotgun may be best. You can keep slugs on a side saddle or butt cuff for shots out to 100 yards or so.
Keep 00 buck in the gun for up close.

Properly used, a good rifle can be effective too. But you will have to consider where and when you would use one. Over Penetration may be a factor up close with a rifle.

Actually an AR-15 might be the best of both worlds.

 

[grendal2012]

Back to the cost issue ,My preference would be a shotgun with a box mag for up close at home .308/7.62 at 100 yards .I have a line of sight for @ 100 yds Plus on 2 sides but 30 yds on the other. BUT i Cannot afford both the shotgun and the larger cal rifle .nor can I afford ammo for either in any really useful quantity should shtf. The idea is to discourage them from getting in or even trying.

 

[grendal2012]

Why the nosin over an AK ,I dont like the idea of a non detachable mag.The hi -point I am actually considering the 9 and .40 cal are also offered in a hi point rifle ,I like the idea of the same ammo for 2 weapons.
But we are back to cost.Worst case I am thinking more rds over more power but I can get a 10/22 and @ 5000 rds of 22lr for @ 500$ but again even though i am a VERY good shot not sure if its enough power for defense and possible to hunt for food.

 

[A10]

I am curious A10 ,why a lever over a semi with a box mag?

Less expense and the guns are widely available. They also point very naturally and are light and handy. I do however think that an older 740 or or 7400 would be fine, though some have had issues with reliability. Nothing wrong with a pump centerfire either, like the 760. Matter of fact, a buddy of mine had both an 870 and a 760 so he could maintain continuity of operation for both his weapons. When you start talking the AR style (my personal choice) the price can readily go through the roof.

 

[ACP230]

If I was faced with this problem I'd buy a 10/22 and some 10 and 25 round mags. I have had good luck with Butler Creek 25 round mags and Ruger makes a 25 rounder of its own now. I'd buy a few types of
ammo to see what the gun liked and then look for brick or case deals
on the best of the lot.

Next would be a used 12 gauge pump shotgun. I am most
familiar with Winchesters and Mossbergs but the Remington 870 is
everywhere and a lot of folks swear by it. Game loads in 12 are
about the cheapest shotshells available now and slugs and buckshot
go on sale in the fall just before hunting season. I'd stock up on them
then.

Centerfire rifle or .22, .38, or 9mm handgun next. Lots of choices new
or used.

 

[jkc]

Given your stated budget and purpose, I'd think you wouldn't go far wrong with a Ruger 10/22 (was me, I'd spend a little extra for the new takedown version...), a decent scope or red dot, and lots of ammo, which you can buy in fairly large quantities, little by little, as budget allows. I'd rather have a puny cartridge and lots of easily portable ammo than a limited quantity of more potent ammo that I can't transport, if needed. Read Cormac McCarthy's novel, The Road, for an illustration of why portability in a SHTF situation might be important...

 

[GatorFarmer]

Why the nosin over an AK ,I dont like the idea of a non detachable mag.The hi -point I am actually considering the 9 and .40 cal are also offered in a hi point rifle ,I like the idea of the same ammo for 2 weapons.
But we are back to cost.Worst case I am thinking more rds over more power but I can get a 10/22 and @ 5000 rds of 22lr for @ 500$ but again even though i am a VERY good shot not sure if its enough power for defense and possible to hunt for food.

The Hi Point carbines are pistol caliber carbines. I do not use pistol caliber carbines myself. Others find them of merit.

If you are short on funds you do not want a 40 caliber. The ammunition costs a premium compared to 9 mm.

Why a Mosin? Because something beats nothing. Your budget would allow only for an entry level AK and little else. The MN you can buy now and have leftovers to buy a pistol. It will also never be worth less than the 100 or so you pay. Plus it makes for a fine pike, club, hat rack, lamp and fishing pole.

All game in N. America has been killed with a 22 at one time or another. But you could also just learn how to makes snares... set out rat traps... etc.


You are on a tight budget. Better to have something and go from there rather than day dreaming. I have a 308 battle rifle btw. It offers no range or penetration advantage over a MN. The MN is pretty idiot proof and hard to break as well.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I understand the budget thing entirely. If it was me, I would save some money and buy an AR15. Ammo is easier to find and a little less expensive than most other rifle calibers.

Lever gun is a good idea but 30-30 can be hard to find in any great quantity and can be expensive.

As mentioned before, a Mosin might be a good cost saving option. A few spam cans of ammo won't cost that much. I would learn how to disassemble and repair it especially if it was my only gun. And stock up on spare parts.

I won't recommend a pistol caliber carbine at distances over 50 yards or so. And a 22lr in any great quantity doesn't do much for me either. Especially with multiple attackers.

If your going to do it, do it right the first time. Even if you have to save money to do so.

 

[bluegrassarms]

If you're willing to look in the after-market, $400-$500 number you gave will sit you up halfway decent depending on how much ammo you want.

I 2nd the Hi-Point suggestion. Good, reliable basic gun for a great price. Used you can get a C9 for $100-$120. A buddy of mine went with a Tokarev b/c he could get surplus ammo for a good price. He got one sub $200. Like the Nagant if you can pick up surplus ammo it really helps your overall cost.

You can get a solid used Nagant for $100-$150 in my area.

Another option between Nagant and an AK: SKS. Shoots readily available 7.62x39mm and you can get it w the 10 round attached mag or modify it for detachable mags. Uber reliable, accurate enough for basic hunting, ammo reasonably cheap compared to lots of other options. Around here they go between $200-$300 depending on the day.

22 is a great double duty caliber, and you can get rifles in pistol calibers but are they serving a purpose for you or are they just to have a rifle? Would you use the Hi-Point carbine for hunting? It's not a great hunting rifle.

If I had to have one shtf, zombie apocalypse setup for sub $500 I'd probably get a SKS and a tin of decently thought of surplus ammo, 800-1000 rounds. Just like in combat, it's you and your rifle.

My next choice would be a .22 rifle with a more powerful self defense handgun. I prefer Ruger but a Marlin 60 is a very good rifle on a budget. If I wanted super portable I'd either plan to do a folding stock on it or I'd look at an AR-7 or Marlin Papoose. Slick guns and you can get in them in the after market sub $200. Don't forget a bolt action option if you want more reliability and it's solely for game hunting. The Savage Mark II is a good choice w the polymer stock and worst case you can at least load a bolt action with single shots easily if your mags fail you. You can get an aftermarket Mark II here sub $100.

Hi-Point is my first choice for cheap and reliable semi-auto in a readily available caliber like 9mm. Only caveat: you need a punch to field strip one (they say every 2,000 rounds) so plan for that. One other good thing re Hi Points is the mags are $10-$15 so you can stock up on them.

I'd also consider a revolver, there's a reason 100 year old ones are still going strong out there, but other than maybe H&R I can't think of any price/quality comparable ones to the Hi-Point C9 9mm. it would blow your budget to go up from there. H&R built some good revolvers but other than .22 they're in funkier calibers like .32S&W and don't expect to find parts lying in the streets.

Not a thing wrong with your idea of a .22 and tons of ammo either, but it would make me nervous to not have at least some "this will stop them" option for people or game. true a .22 will kill almost anything if shot well enough in a shtf world I'd like a body shot to do the trick. Either way make sure you store the ammo properly and I would look at getting a cheap .22 backup like a H&R revolver, an after market Ruger Mark or something to go with a rifle. If you're getting out cheap enough on the ammo it would be good to have a backup gun.

 

[Ron H.]

Hi all ,I am new here so please be patient with me.I want to buy a weapon(s) for shtf,I am on a very small budget and while a saiga 12 and a .308 /7.62 battle rifle would be my first choices if I had the money for the weapon plus lots of ammo ,I dont. So I am considering something semi auto in a .22 lr and many thousands of rds ammo , the thinking being something is better than nothing at all and lots of shots are better than a few.Am I wasting my time,would I be better saving and getting something with some more punch? I am on @ a 4-500$ budget right now.
Thanks

Sir, IMHO a .22 is not the best choice for an "only" gun, especially for defense purposes, but a Ruger 10/22 and a pile of ammo isn't a bad starting place. If you're new to shooting, the .22 is an excellent learning tool, and you can usually shoot it at indoor pistol ranges, which means you can shoot in town. Centerfire rifles and especially shotguns typically require making a road trip out to the boonies every time you want to practice.

Once your finances and skills improve, then it makes sense to look into a bigger gun.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Something else to look for... a solid old break top single shot 12 gauge. You can get an adapter - designed with input from Dave Canterbury of Dual Survival - to fire 22 lr.

The thing about a 10/22... they seem expensive lately. I think the take down one has an MSRP of 350 something? For foraging the cheapest 22 rifle from Walmart will work just as well.

If you end up being able to afford more for a handgun also look at Sigmas in 9 mm.

 

[AZ_Shooter]

OP, what you are considering are all good firearms choices for your particular requirements. I'm with others on this thread that a 10/22 is a good place to start if you are new to firearms. Personally, I would suggest a pistol caliber Hi-Point rifle. The first gun I bought was a Hi-Point in 9mm. They have a great factory warranty and are simple to shoot and clean (minus the punch tool required to take it apart). I put a dinky little NcStar red dot sight on it and it works great out to 100 yards.

Take your time and do your research and you will come up with something you will like.

AZ

 

[Texas Star]

You're losing sight of a basic issue while you trifle with doomsday fantasy. A massive breakdown of social order is less likely than a real burglar or just being confronted by a creep with a personal grudge.

I think your first gun needs to be a stainless steel .38 or .357 revolver on a medium frame, with a four-inch barrel. I'd limit brands to Ruger or S&W. Learn how to buy a used gun safely. There are a lot of police trade-ins, and stainless finishes can be polished out if minor scuffs are present.

You can have this at bedside or on you when a long gun can't be present, and it is ample for most needs, once you learn to use it well. It is harder for an intruder to take from you than a long gun.

Next, you can add a good used Remington M-870 in 12 or 20 gauge. Just racking the slide on that will cause many vermin to run. Just buy a basic hunting gun, not a tricked-out "tacitical" model. But do get a good used Wingmaster, not the economy grade, which has cheaper parts and workmanship. A 26" barrel is handier than 28", and older ones have a more open choke, better for your needs. If you have the option of changeable choke tubes, install the Improved Cylinder one.

If you want a .22 rifle, try a Marlin M-795SS. It has a stainless barrel and is often more accurate out of the box than a 10-22. Marlin owners seldom seem to need to alter them much. I just added a sling. Bought a spare box magazine. I paid under $150 new in 2004. (Used .22 autoloaders are often gunked up due to lack of proper cleaning.)

These three basic guns will stand you in good stead until you have more money and sense of what you want. I do not think a Moisin-Nagant or other foreign military rifle is a good is a good idea. if the fur does hit the fan, you want your rifle to chamber .308 or .30/06 or .223. Think ammo supply. And those make excellent hunting cartridges, with a wide choice in ammo.

You can use a 9mm pistol in lieu of the stainless revolver I recommend, but it'll cost more for a good one, and you seem to lack experience with firearms. A revolver is safer to learn on. And it is more reliable in AVERAGE hands.

Buying a cheap brand like Hi-Point is just wasting money and the gun will probably be hard to sell after you realize that you wanted something better. If you have $400-500, get that revolver first. Then, save for the others. Actually, $500 may well buy a good used revolver AND that Marlin .22.