Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Read this first:
http://www.darkcanyon.net/And_the_angels_sing.htm
http://www.darkcanyon.net/And_the_angels_sing.htm
"BEST" Reloading manual?
- Thread starter jwr0201
- Start date
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Then you will be ready to handle this: (grasshopper)
http://www.bbhfarm.com/gallery/album28/aab?full=1
http://www.bbhfarm.com/gallery/album28/aab?full=1
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
"WE" (us handloaders) used to KNOW this!
In the vernacular of today: "Just sayin'"
In the vernacular of today: "Just sayin'"
Master, it is most interesting but has Diddly Do Da on what we originally had been discussing.
In another vernacular "What Ever"
In another vernacular "What Ever"
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Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Cop out. Folks do that as a defensive measure when their argument has been proven wrong! Not a psychologist, just an observer over time! 
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
This is a good point, but just a little different than what I am saying. This does show why folks like Elmer Keith developed his famous bullets. Get more out of the case than in the case.
I am speaking more about when you aren't loading to a crimp groove. The big "what if" is what happens when you seat the same bullet deeper.
Thanks for the input and you are not butting in........
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Cop out. Folks do that as a defensive measure when their argument has been proven wrong! Not a psychologist, just an observer over time!
It's not a cop out. I never disagreed that seating a bullet deeper will increase pressure. I agree with that.
But you yourself have copped out by not giving an answer to my questions, instead have redirected the conversation to some data from 1937 (not that it's wrong because it's old) showing a extreme difference in seating depth and exceeding 35,000 psi which would just be dumb.
I do like your little graphics and hope you did not spend all night on them.
So, time to move on. Good Day.
Maximumbob54
Member
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I hope I'm not to blame for all this discontent. I think it should be a given that if you seat the bullet deeper then it will decrease the case volume which will increase the pressure. The fact that seating depth isn't widely published data kind of eludes me. However, the fact that people aren't blowing themselves up seems to indicate that it isn't quite the big deal that I think it may be. Either way, this is part of the reason (IMHO) that we are routinely told to back off ten percent and not all load data is safe or intended for all guns.
Personally, I have found this whole conversation interesting. I love the old manual in the pic.
Personally, I have found this whole conversation interesting. I love the old manual in the pic.
pacific keeper
Member
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- 3
Intelligent debate can be educational . I enjoy this information and the essays .
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Bob,
I guess I need to make this clear, there is NO discontent here. Grasshopper will have to speak for himself!
The ONLY point I am trying to make, and you can throw the data in the trash, is that we need to UNDERSTAND, not that pressure increases with seating depth but that seating depth is more important than OAL!
The reason that we have watered down data is because people need to be protected from their ignorance!
Can I run a load under minimum? Yep, if I have a deeper seating depth! Cartridge OAL be hanged!
Can I run a load over maximum? Hang on, YES, and Elmer based his whole loading of the 44spl on this, if I have a shallower seating depth, OAL be hanged.
Now, I am done.
I guess I need to make this clear, there is NO discontent here. Grasshopper will have to speak for himself!
The ONLY point I am trying to make, and you can throw the data in the trash, is that we need to UNDERSTAND, not that pressure increases with seating depth but that seating depth is more important than OAL!
The reason that we have watered down data is because people need to be protected from their ignorance!
Can I run a load under minimum? Yep, if I have a deeper seating depth! Cartridge OAL be hanged!
Can I run a load over maximum? Hang on, YES, and Elmer based his whole loading of the 44spl on this, if I have a shallower seating depth, OAL be hanged.
Now, I am done.
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Paul5388
US Veteran
I have some old 7mm Mag we loaded in Norma brass before DuPont sold out to IMR. They have been chambered many times and maybe were in the magazine when another round was shot. The OAL isn't what it used to be, even though nothing has changed except the nose of the bullet.
So, OAL really doesn't have much meaning in the real world, but as Skip said, seating depth is very much meaningful in the real world!
Seating depth is pretty easy to determine. Just make a mark (Marks-a-Lot or scribe) close to the nose of the bullet and measure from the mark to the base. Seat the bullet and measure from the mark to the case mouth. The difference is the seating depth.
So, OAL really doesn't have much meaning in the real world, but as Skip said, seating depth is very much meaningful in the real world!
Seating depth is pretty easy to determine. Just make a mark (Marks-a-Lot or scribe) close to the nose of the bullet and measure from the mark to the base. Seat the bullet and measure from the mark to the case mouth. The difference is the seating depth.
Master:
This rice paper is the test, clean as the cocoon of the silk worm, fragile as the wings of the dragon fly. When you can walk its length and leave no trace, you will have learned.”
Grasshopper bows
This rice paper is the test, clean as the cocoon of the silk worm, fragile as the wings of the dragon fly. When you can walk its length and leave no trace, you will have learned.”
Grasshopper bows
Paul5388
US Veteran
Well Skip, I actually found that old 7mm Mag load in Lyman 44th edition. So, it really isn't an overload and it really does shoot good! Handloads.Com Forum: Reloader 21
