Better to Aim 642 or Point Shoot?

[Tony2much]

My wife has chosen a S&W 642-1 as her CCW due to its lightweight and concealability. While at the range yesterday, she was having a difficult time with the long, heavy, double action, trigger pull. When she took her time to aim, her groups at 11' were all over the (12" x 18") target with some off the paper. She is not recoil sensitive and comfortably/accurately shoots my magnums and 1911's. This was about the 4th time she had been to the range with her 642.

I suggested that she just bring the gun up and fire as fast as she could at the target without using the sights. To her and my amazement, she grouped significantly better with all 5 on the target and 2 near the center! Several follow-up bursts proved to yield similar results.

I've always trained using my sights and know that I am better with them, regardless of how small, but now curious if some folks possess a special ability to just hit where they point.

Considering that the most self defense situations occur within a short distance, I'm now wondering if we shouldn't concentrate on training her to point shoot her 642 vs aiming it with the nearly non-existent sights.

What do most 642 or other snubbie owners do to train?

 

[alwaysoutdoors]

It depends on distance. Generally , I would use the sights. I think point shooting is something to master AFTER you can use the sights properly.

 

[ispcapt]

Concentrate on mastering the basics first:
Sight alignment, trigger control.
They're called the basics for a reason.

 

[S&W1006]

Dry fire practice is a great way to practice with a DA revolver. I dry fire practice with all my revolvers. It is a great way to practice.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

 

[Mulebuk Sam]

I suggested that she just bring the gun up and fire as fast as she could at the target without using the sights.

What do most 642 or other snubbie owners do to train?

Tony, you done good and don't let anyone tell you different.
Your Mrs. has the best teacher she'll ever need.

Up close and personal, that's what the subbie is all about.
And you keep it real close so that you can deploy even if they are on top of you. Put it to their chest and blow a hole clean through 'em.

Keep up the good training brother..

 

[Jingles]

I shoot a lot but have never been all that accurate with my 642 when I try to aim. I have found a combination of aiming/point shooting works if I only pay attention to the front sight. That gets me in a center mass area out to about 7 yards. The 642 is a great gun but with the heavy trigger pull it is best used up close as Mulebuk suggests.

 

[haywood]

My thought is, what works for her. I also like the dry fire idea. That is how I learned to shoot the DAO guns.

 

[Bob T]

Take your finger and point it across the room at some object; then sight down your finger and check POA.
You'll find you won't win a bullseye contest but will be pretty dang close in a snap engagement.
As mulebuk said: ya done good.

 

[Tony2much]

Thanks for all the quick responses guys! Some great suggestions and I'll use a combination of them all.

I think I will continue to work with her on close quarters, point shooting as well as standard distance target practice with sights.

I know that I am not that good at point shooting and it's probably something I should be doing more of as well. I instinctively come up to my line of sight. Pointing without aiming feels very un-natural to me and is why I was so surprised at her accuracy.

I think the trigger is another issue and a big part of her poor slow fire. It seems like she is more comfortable firing it quickly as opposed to creeping it slowly back. I am going to dig out and install a set of j-frame laser grips and get her to practice slow, dry fire with the laser grips on target and see where she is moving off center. I really don't like them or want her to become dependent on the laser, so after a while we'll go back to the stock grips.

 

[lefty_jake]

Much though I love the model 642, I do find that the grey sights are invisible in some light conditions.

I like to blacken the rear sight with a sharpie marker and apply some orange paint or nail polish to the front sight. I personally prefer a small amount of orange near the top of the sight, and I might put black on the rest of the front sight. Some people can see it better with lots of orange on the whole front sight.

None of this addresses your question about point shooting vs sights. But I do feel that if you might ever use the sights, then it is useful if you can see them.

 

[Old cop]

Here's a drill I've used for years. Using a standard paper plate post it at 3, 5 and 7 yards. Empty the gun as fast as possible, combat reload and repeat. The objective is to keep all your shots on the plate. I use a flash front sight picture for the first shot and you slow down a bit as distance increases.

 

[Shooter Mike]

I shoot approximately 100 round thru my J every week.

I bring the front sight straight up to eye level so that I do not have to bend my head left or right to
search for the sight.

My main focus at that point is to pull the trigger straight back. I am conscious not to cant the pistol
left or right and I do not milk the trigger.

I got that from one of Jerry's videos and it works for me and it should work for you too. (both eyes open)

 

[Biggfoot44]

Without reigniting the aimed vs point debate in its entirity, use the same methods that work well with regular sized guns.

I strongly suspect your wife's problems are with the trigger and not the sights.

 

[vireya]

Is any of this one handed? or do ya'll shoot with 2 all the time?

 

[crazyphil]

I would invest in a good action job and Crimson Trace laser sights.

 

[ContinentalOp]

I'll echo the advice to work on dry fire practice. Of course, make sure it's focused dry fire practice with proper technique. Obviously, make sure you're safe, too.

I consider true point shooting, i.e. hip shooting, to be for extreme close range, within a few feet. From there out to a few yards I typically bring the gun up into my line of sight with my focus on the target. Even if I don't see the sights I can get a rough alignment. Past that requires more attention on the sights, but I still focus on the target with fuzzy sights. You can still get good hits quickly that way. For much longer distances, or higher precision, than getting a good sight picture with a front sight focus helps, but obviously is a bit slower.

If she's getting good hits on target quickly, then that's a good thing. But I would still encourage her to work on the fundamentals, like others have suggested. There's no reason she has to use one OR the other technique; both are useful depending on the situation.

A trigger job might be helpful. Some people like the Apex Duty kit. Personally, I'd prefer to take the gun to a good gunsmith and have the trigger action smoothed but retain the full-power springs. If you do get a trigger job done, make sure you test the gun for reliability before carrying.

 

[DevilDog72]

I use sights on my K frames, that said I do not use them on my J's. I practice point and shoot out to 15 yards. IMHO, J's are up close and very personal defensive weapons.
What ever works for her is what she should do. When the chips are down.... you get the drift.

This is my wifes setup. She put it together.

 

[JCFindley]

I am a huge fan of point shoot.

Beyond ten feet I will start using the sights depending on the target and distance and IRL, the situation.

Bring the gun up to use the sights on a target inside ten feet you could have some serious issues with weapons retention. (If the BG has training in disarming someone with a handgun anyway.)

 

[ispcapt]

Point shooting is fine for close work. That will usually take care of the matter. But if you read what the OP wrote his wife can't hit anything past 11 ft. Once she's past 11 ft her shots all over the paper even when she takes her time. Put pressure/stress and things will only get worse. She needs to work on the basics then advance to point shooting. Right now what she's doing is not point shooting. She's just throwing rounds downrange and luckily hitting something at 10 ft, maybe. That's not point shooting. That's what use to be called spray and pray, even at 10 ft.

 

[snubbyfan]

When my neuropathy started I got a Laserlyte side mount laser for my carry snubby.

When used for dry fire practice it really shows what's going on with the gun.
I practiced with either hand until I can keep the red dot on my wife's favorite stuffed Pooh Bear from 21 feet all the way through the trigger pull. Really helped me.
At the range, I practice sighted shooting, point shooting and shooting from retention.
In an emergency, ya never really know what you'll need to do to protect yourself and your loved ones.
he laser is used sometimes for fun, I do havta admit that it's fun chewing a jagged hole where the red dot is.