Bicycle Gun???

[BMur]

Early bicycle guns

The earliest bicycles invented in Europe during the very early 1800's were nothing more than wooden contraptions that easily fell apart and COULD NOT be ridden very far without some sort of breakdown occurring. (Photo 1)

This problem occurred for many years that included "THE BONE CRUSHER) of the 1880's. ( Photo 2)

Very limited in both use and distance so Dogs or packs of wild dogs really did not become an issue until the 1890's.

That includes Europe where the Velo-Dog is seen about 1894 in various catalogs for sale.

I have some original period catalogs in my collection.

(Photo 3)is the exact reason for this.

The 1890's modern solid metal frame rear wheel chain drive pedal bicycle provided the operator the opportunity to take very long rides "OUTSIDE CITY LIMITS" and its there that wild dogs in large numbers became a real issue. Usually in proximity to city dumps.

It's at that exact time in History that the "BICYCLE GUN" became a well known item among the community of bicycle riders and clubs.

As a kid in San Francisco we would run into wild dogs riding our bikes by the beach close to an old city dump that's long gone but I still remember panicking while peddling away as fast as I could.

Murph

 

[sniper]

I never figured out how to carry my Winchester single-shot rifle on my bike, and there were these hound dogs that would chase me whenever I rode past their house on my way to a buddy's. I made myself a skinny club, and sure enough, the next time I rode past, one chased me. He got biting close, and I whacked him good with the club, which caused him to yelp. His peckerwood owner came out on his porch and yelled at me for whacking his pooch. Aaah, yes, the good ol' days!

 

[shawn mccarver]

I suppose your S&W is in .32, but I always remember the 22 Velo Dog round as being used to repel dogs who were giving chase while you rode your bike. Obviously, such use would be decried by the leftists today, but back then, the chance of rabies was much greater, there was no treatment and rabies is fatal. Therefore, the bicycle gun filled a real need.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


Louis Pasteur first demonstrated the successful treatment of
rabies on July 6, 1885.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[Patbar]

The earliest bicycles invented in Europe during the very early 1800's were nothing more than wooden contraptions that easily fell apart and COULD NOT be ridden very far without some sort of breakdown occurring. (Photo 1)

This problem occurred for many years that included "THE BONE CRUSHER) of the 1880's. ( Photo 2)

Very limited in both use and distance so Dogs or packs of wild dogs really did not become an issue until the 1890's.

That includes Europe where the Velo-Dog is seen about 1894 in various catalogs for sale.

.............................................

Murph, as I wrote above, the "velocipede a pedales" (bicycle with pedals in the center of the front wheel was invented in 1861 by Pierre Michaux and his son Ernest, and the velodog gun and corresponding cartridge was invented in 1868 by Charles François Galand.

So, the problems with dogs chasing bicycles occured before the 1890's. People did not need to go far to encounter this problem because even in cities, most of the dogs roamed freely at the time, and they were not wild dogs.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

When I bike ride in the country, I put a LCR 38 Special in my water bottle pocket over my right kidney. If I was worried about the dogs, I would load it with 38 wadcutters, but the owners are much more dangerous. They get Speer Short Barrel +P 135 grain.

I have been approached by exactly one dog I was worried about. He was a Pit Bull. and came at me full speed. He came along side me and trotted there for about half a mile before returning from where he came. I've had 4 humans I thought needed the services of the LCR, but I got away faster than they could mug me. A good bike is a sizable haul for muggers!

Ivan

 

[BMur]

Bicycle gun

Patbar,
I have absolutely no doubt dogs chased people before the 1890's.

I'd like to see your reference for Velo-dog cartridge pistols prior to the 1890's. Could you post a photo? Remember to be legitimate your reference must be dated in some way. Not a modern written claim. So a dated catalog, newspaper article or Patent reference. Let's not forget that the early 1860's was "primarily" cap & ball.

I have an early reference to bicycle guns in cap&Ball pepperbox that were actually part of the handle bars but still those are very obscure references and frankly hard to actually date.

I also have early American catalog references that refer to the American Eagle Bulldog from the late 1870's being used to defend against rouge dogs but no bicycle references.

Very early legitimate references are rare. By early I mean prior to about 1875. Even when found they are near impossible to actually date.

Murph

 

[BMur]

Velo- dog references

Patbar,
See attached photos.
Do you have an earlier reference?
I actually have original 1890's catalogs that clearly list the "NEW" Velo-Dog pistol.

This really is the focus. Catalog reference is King. In other words if say as you claim the Velo-Dog was invented in 1868? Then where is the catalog reference?
I've never seen or heard of one. A new product like a Bicycle gun would have sold for sure and easily found in early catalogs. To be perfectly honest it's pretty much impossible because the Velo-Dog is most definitely part of the pocket Bulldog that didn't actually begin until the early 1870's. Very slow too. It wasn't until the late 1870's that the Bulldogs really sold in numbers and show up in catalogs.

Murph

 

[Patbar]

You're right Murph. I first read that the velodog was invented in 1868 by Charles François Galand, but after further research, here is what I found :

The Vélodog was invented in the late 19th century, more precisely around 1894. This pocket revolver was created by René Galand, son of Charles-François Galand, in France. The weapon was designed to allow cyclists to defend themselves against stray dogs, which were often aggressive towards velocipedes, a new invention at the time.

The name "Vélodog" is a contraction of the words "velocipede" and "dog", reflecting its main function. This small revolver was characterized by a non-tilting cylinder and a hammer generally sunk into the frame to facilitate its transport and rapid action.

It is important to note that although the invention is attributed to René Galand in 1894, some sources mention that his father, Charles-François Galand, had already developed and marketed a similar revolver around 1868. However, the version specifically named "Vélodog" and designed for cyclists dates from the late 1890s.

 

[BMur]

Who invented the Bicycle gun

Thanks Patbar,
I think the gun industry was very competitive and spies worked for various companies that monitored the Market closely even in the 1800's.
The Bicycle gun was no exception.
The exact timeline is difficult to figure out because the Velo-Dog appeared at the exact same time as early Cyclist top-break revolvers in the USA.
The Model 1 Iver Johnson 1894 (photos)
The Perfection revolver Forehand Arms Co 1893-1894(photo)
Etc
Very similar to the Bulldog revolver. Copies came out right away.
I have no proof who actually invented the Cyclist gun but guaranteed that the very next day it was copied by the Market!

Murph

 

[H Richard]

Yes, that is considered a S&W Bicycle gun. A .32 short, (less than 3"), barrel carried by bicycle riders to protect them from any attacking animals. They are less common, and in really nice condition can bring substantial prices.



You need to look carefully, as some have been "created" by shortening longer barreled guns. If the descriptive information is on the side like the one pictured is is a real bicycle gun, if the narrative is on the top rib, and probably partially gone where the barrel was cut it is a phony.
(The one pictured above brought $2500 a few years ago at auction).

 

[BMur]

Exception to every rule

In the late Bill Goforth book he touches bases with "interrupted barrel addresses" found on some early bicycle guns.

By interrupted he meant the front sight is actually placed perfectly between the two barrel address lines on top of the barrel.

I actually have seen several of these.

Bill thought it was still factory work because the barrel crowns are perfect, the lengths are exactly 2", and the front sight is set just like factory work.

I don't disagree with him "but" I personally favor the Major Distributor actually altering the guns in the basement machine shop to meet Market demands at that time. Bicycle guns were definitely selling.

So before you look cross eyed at a suspect altered antique I personally would not pass up on one of these examples. They are definitely legit and period manufactured (or altered) for the Bicycle gun market. As long as the price is fair and they meet the strict criteria of measurement they are recognized as the real thing for the early bicycle gun market.

Murph

 

[mrcvs]

In the late Bill Goforth book he touches bases with "interrupted barrel addresses" found on some early bicycle guns.

By interrupted he meant the front sight is actually placed perfectly between the two barrel address lines on top of the barrel.

I actually have seen several of these.

Bill thought it was still factory work because the barrel crowns are perfect, the lengths are exactly 2", and the front sight is set just like factory work.

I don't disagree with him "but" I personally favor the Major Distributor actually altering the guns in the basement machine shop to meet Market demands at that time. Bicycle guns were definitely selling.

So before you look cross eyed at a suspect altered antique I personally would not pass up on one of these examples. They are definitely legit and period manufactured (or altered) for the Bicycle gun market. As long as the price is fair and they meet the strict criteria of measurement they are recognized as the real thing for the early bicycle gun market.

Murph

I'm sorry, but I disagree. If it doesn't letter with a 2" barrel (or other shorter length), it CANNOT be a true Bicycle Gun even if the aforementioned happened. Because the letter doesn't match the current configuration and it becomes a problem, a gun requiring "excuses".

 

[MrOverlay]

Hmmmm. $2500. Makes me wonder how much I love mine.

 

[BMur]

Market value

It's pretty simple to bet on the sure thing that letters and is purty. Bring your wallet to that party. Might even need a bank loan. And there is no guarantee that when you sell it the Market will still pay that price!

Then there is the speculation market. One of my favorite places.
It's when you look at an antique item and it's "WAY LOW" for some reason. Maybe collectors won't generally agree with you.

99% of the time I've found it to be based on a strong prejudice with a little attitude and trash talking icing that cake.

I remember buying various 44 Bulldogs for $40 each. Every time I purchased one it was exactly the same attitude. That piece of junk! That slug! Dime a dozen. I can still see the look on old Frank Sellers face when he said "I use to sell those for $5."

Well now they sell for $800-$1,200 average. If embellished even more.

Sometimes the only thing that's missing is just a little research and recognition.

Murph

 

[Rikkn]

Here's what was I think, the 'original' bicycle gun !
I had one as a kid but didn't know what it was.

I have one of those on the wall of weird stuff.

 

[murphydog]

You're quite right Murphydog ! And congratulations for taking up French which is a pretty difficult language especially for its grammar.

Mais oui!

 

[DARE]

Here is mine with a poor quality refinish in nickel, but does letter with the 2-inch barrel. It had some J frame RB diamond grips on it when I acquired it.