Big Bear, 44 carry.

[beagleye]

I live in black bear country. They are thick in my neighbor hood. I have seen probably a dozen in the last month or so, mostly mothers and cubs. And thru the years, tons. And they never fail to leave me underwhelmed with their prowess. I have seen a couple of fatties that would have been 4-5oo. But really rolly polly. I know they could tear you up, but they really don't look like they want to. I have been carrying a 38 in the woods for years, really without considering bears.

A couple weeks ago a bear crossed the road in front of my car that was like a pony. Tall, sleek, muscular, fast. It made me think of my dog shaking a ground hog, except with me in the role of the ground hog. I couldn't guess how much it weighed, enough. It has made me re-evaluate my woods gun and I think the new strategy is a model 1926 loaded with some Keith loads. I know they very rarely hunt people, but 44s are probably one of the main reasons they don't and that's a trend I want to encourage.

 

[dr. mordo]

From what I've read, bear spray is by a wide margin the preferred weapon as it is far more effective than any pistol.

If a handgun is required, 357 actually has better penetration than 44 on a large animal. So choose the 357 you prefer and load it with the Outdoorsman load from a reputable ammo maker like Buffalo Bore or Underwood. I've had issues with hard primers from Buffalo Bore, so be sure to test the ammo to make sure it works in your gun. Just have a bucket of ice ready to soak your hand.

As far as which 357, personally I'd reach for a 4" S&W model 19 or a Ruger GP100. I'm not a big fan of the S&W 686, but many folks are. A 686 weighs almost as much as a 627, so I'd be likely to go that route if I wanted a large S&W 357. Also, shooting Outdoorsman loads from a 627 would be far preferable to shooting them from a Model 19.

 

[beagleye]

Good answer! Is bear spray generally good with hostile people as well. My stomping ground is also a remote road connecting poor communities across the TN and NC line, and there are more than the normal number of downtrodden and desperate folks along the route. I think I will probably settle for either a handgun or bear spray (wifey already has a can, I always forget about it) so I need to consider the human element too. Good reminder! Thanks.

But I was unaware that the outdoorsman load would penetrate better than the Keith load. Is the outdoorsman load the same HD standard of a 158 grain SWC and 12ish grains of 2400? That would be a good fit for a model 19 or similar.

 

[Protected One]

WOW ...carrying a .38 in bear country!

Brave man.

 

[Echo40]

.44 Magnum is excessive for Black Bear, .357 Magnum or .44 Special would do the trick, just make sure that you load Heavy, Hardcast SWC Bullets.
When dealing with Bear and other large animals, penetration is far more important than expansion due to their thick hide, muscle, and bone.

If you do go the Bear Spray route, I would still recommend carrying a capable sidearm. Bear Spray may be effective, but it won't drop a charging Bear, just blind it before it tramples you, and that's if it's even quick enough to be deployed or has the necessary range/accuracy to reliably hit a charging Bear in the eyes, which I doubt.

 

[murphydog]

This sounds to be more than the hypothetical bear thread .

Bear repellant is usually high concentration pepper spray and should be quite effective on two-legged assailants; be sure to check it is legal to carry in your area.

If you are worried more about having a car/truck gun, meaning no need for it to be carried much or concealed, I think a 12 gauge shotgun with rifled slugs would be a good choice. Good luck in your decision and don't feed the bears!

 

[diyj98]

If a handgun is required, 357 actually has better penetration than 44 on a large animal.

I think that would depend on the load and bullet. In a comparable bullet, say a hard cast bullet, I'd think the extra velocity would more than offset any extra drag the .429 bullet would have over the .357, but again it depends on the bullet and load.

 

[Doug M.]

And in a shotgun, check out Dr. Roberts' suggestions. He is a big fan of the Brenneke slugs - standard dear slugs tend to be too soft.

 

[elpac3]

In addition to bear spray - consider a road flare. Seen them used in Alaska.

 

[keith44spl]

When in bear country.....I carry a heavy loaded 44 of some kind or another.
I use the Keith hard cast swc over a good dollop of 2400 in both the Special cases or the magnum brass.

(They will penetrate...I've personally shot a bull elk through and through broad sided at 40 yards from a
3 1/2" 44 Spl S&W with the "Keith Load" it's a killin son of a gun.)

As for a 357 magnum...I would never bet my life on that cartridge when there's a 44 handy. I have some personal
experience with that cartridge when loaded with the hard cast 173 gr Keith SWCs and a heavy load of 2400.
I have found it to be an excellent long range varmint cartridge. But, not one for small game or large.

With that said, I really prefer a rifle. I've killed a black bear or two, not sport hunting neither.

Both were coming to me on a run and a whoofin and poppin their teeth.
I'm offended when critters get bent on trying to gnaw on me.

I like bears, large and small....At a distance.

Jest for the weight of it....
I've carried this 'Short Rifle' load with some heavy hard cast Keith SWCs
in +P+ Long Colt cartridges in the saddle scabbard a bunch of miles, and never felt uneasy.

.

 

[PALADIN85020]

This story was told to me by an old friend who was a forest ranger:

He said that the best defense against a bear was to wear bells and carry pepper spray.

He also said that it was important, when hiking, to be aware of what type of bears were in the vicinity. The best way to determine the difference between black/brown bears and grizzlies was to examine their droppings.

It seems the black/brown bear droppings will contain berries, leaves and insects. Grizzly bear droppings, on the other hand, will contain bells and smell like pepper spray...

John

 

[tops]

The largest animal I've ever shot with a pistol is a deer and a .357 or .44 will shoot through. I have never shot any animal large enough to stop a .357 or .44 bullet.
The most simple and easiest penetration test I have used is a 20 gal. propane tank and Laser Cast bullets.
.357, 158 gr.@1429 fps will shoot through one side and dent back side.
.44, 240gr.@1448 fps will shoot through both sides.
I have tried this several time with the same result. Larry

 

[derek45auto]

....If a handgun is required, 357 actually has better penetration than 44 on a large animal. .
.....

I disagree.

a Keith SWC in 357 or 44 will penetrate about the same...at the same velocities.

same for JHP's ( they will penetrate a lot less than the Elmer Kieth SWC )

 

[beagleye]

WOW ...carrying a .38 in bear country!

Brave man.

Yes, after seeing that big guy a couple of weeks ago I realized I gotten a way too relaxed about the situation.

Thanks to all for the kind well informed advice! The discourse on this forum is so decent.

I don't want to carry both spray and a gun, I am already loaded down with gear, and I just DO NOT like not having a revolver on me, so I will add a .44 to the woods rambling equipment, and stay alert. I am glad as heck to hear from experienced folks that a .44 SWC over 2400 will do the job. That's the only load I shoot out of my 44 special. Hopefully I won't need it in a pinch.

Best, Pete

 

[Doug M.]

I can't imagine carrying anything but a good hard cast SWC if I were worried about an encounter with large dangerous critters such as bears. I'll admit I have no reason to be in their turf, which cuts the risk way down.

 

[fredj338]

I like 4" M29 for bear guns but a M57 would do as well for black bears. This is where a 10mm also can do fine. Most black bears are not as large as grizz or as tough. So a 200gr LFP @ 1200fps in a light wt, shootable package has a lot going for it.

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...sectional density for a 158 gr. 357 is .177 ...

...for the 240 44 it's .186...better but not much...

...300 grain 44s would be better at .233 ...

...the minimum for dangerous game is considered to be .300 ...pretty much impossible in a hand gun...

 

[jimmyj]

Glock Model 20 10mm with extra magazines.
Plus:
a dirty depends and
a companion who has a peg leg

 

[shottist]

Black Bears are around here in FL but pretty shy but if I were seriously involved with them a short double barreled Shot Gun in a comfortable sling loaded with one slug and double 00 Buck. How about a Mossy Shock Wave?

 

[RobertJ.]

.44 Magnum is excessive for Black Bear

Wait...what?

If a 300-pound (or more) animal that has claws and fangs is thinking about sampling my leg, I don't think I'd feel over-gunned with a .44 Magnum. I'd probably be kicking myself for not having my 870 slug gun!

This is my "poor man's stopping rifle" and I don't think it would be excessive even for the lowly black bear: