Big Project..need Schofield expert assistance & probably others input

[cmansguns]

I've taken on a fairly large research project to assist a friend who inherited a significant firearms collection when his dad passed. I agreed to review pics and help him place a current value on at least the Smiths and some of the long guns. I don't have physical access to any as he lives in another State, but I will help how I can. He is still digging through papers for provenance, receipts, boxes, accessories etc.

I only have some cell phone "group" shots for now, and his medical situation precludes more detailed pics for a few weeks (he is recovering from an operation, and can't really sit up at the moment.

He does know exactly what pics of each I'll require, and since he personally was (still is) a Colt collector/shooter and LEO, he can and will be doing mechanical checks when he is able. A lot of the guns he just never knew his dad even had.

I don't have any issue with researching and commenting on, or valuing, the modern Smiths, but I am way out of my league with what he believes is a genuine 1st Model Schofield. There are 3 Schofields shown in the one pic. Two are known repops (Navy Arms/Uberti) and the nice blued one. The other with original patent marks and dates, he is sure is one that his dad had up for auction some years ago, listing at $8,000 (auction house recommendation) but his dad felt it was "worth more" so pulled it and had it returned. He remembers his dad complaining that he had to pay a penalty fee of $500 to withdraw.

2nd item I just need some confirmation is the DA 45 revolver with "US Property" mark under the barrel. I believe this gun to be a US Army Model 1917 and will confirm with other pics later. Question is are the quotation marks fore and aft of the US Property valid and original? The white paint was his dad who did it to lots of the guns (including a nice 1915 Luger).

Another curiosity (for me) will be what looks to be a pistol/rifle (revolving rifle?) setup you can see 5th from left on the "collection pic".

I'm not charging anything for research and evaluation, he contacted me and I just want to help him sort out what he's got. None are for sale.....he just admits he doesn't know a heck of a lot of anything about S&W, but wants to get an idea of value of what he's sitting on from his Dad.

As Iget better, and more detailed pics, serial numbers, bbl lengths, etc I'll be posting in the appropriate forums for help with the Schofield for sure, maybe the Model 1917, and probably that revolver/rifle, but for now:

Does that one Schofield look to be a real McCoy to your eyes? My friend says it has a 3 digit serial number, 9XX and matches in several places but will have to wait until he is mobile again for detailed pics.

The quotation marks look genuine for you owners of a Model 1917

Comments on the rifle (blow up the pics several times to see the 5th one from left).

Thanks for any advance assistance from you experts.

 

[glowe]

Here is my guess. All three appear to be reproductions. Uberti made them as well as S&W who made a production run around 2000, making 2000 guns. The last image is of a Victory 38 M&P, not a Schofield. The chances of finding three near-mint original Schofield revolvers are a million to one.

Having said that, the latch on the middle gun does not look like Uberti, and the top gun has seen some use. Have your friend look very closely at all the stamps found on the guns, since Italian reproductions will have telltale stampings indicating where they are from.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


The first model Schoflied pictured looks to me like a model 2000
made by S&W at the turn of the century. The serial number will
tell you for sure. Also, the model 2000 will have a floating firing
pin in the frame instead of a fixed one on the hammer.


Cheers,
Webb

 

[glowe]

I pulled out my Uberti Schofield and it has the top side lumps like the 2nd Model. I believe the S&W Schofield 2000 uses the top latch like the top and bottom guns, without the side lumps.

Problem is that the serial numbers start with "1" on the Uberti revolver and are still going up so they might have the correct number that could fall in line with original factory guns that also started with "1".

Here are a few images of what an Uberti Schofield looks like. You will also note that the middle gun has a year stamped on the left stock just like the one I am showing. There was a limited number of S&W Schofield reproductions made, so maybe over $1200 each. Uberti is still manufacturing this model and has made a ton of them dating back 35 years. Uberti Schofields sell for $800 to $1000.

 

[opoefc]

That 5th from the left long gun sure looks like a S&W revolving rifle. depending on condition, it's around $8K+ and the Schofields are copies from Italy, but great shooters. Ed

 

[iby]

good eye on RR
I don't know off any repros

 

[glowe]

That 3rd from the left long gun sure looks like a S&W revolving rifle. depending on condition, it's around $5K ++ The Schofields are repos from Italy, but great shooters. Ed

I kept counting to 3, but no RR. I think Ed has missed the last few years of auction prices realized for that rare model. It is the 5th from the left in my picture and they have been selling for near $10,000 without the leather case. Ask your friend if there is a case for that gun? If so, around $15,000 would be a probable sale price! Hard to tell for sure, but kind of looks like a 16" barrel. 239 were made in 16", 514 were made in 18", and 224 were made in 20". The last 320 RR I saw sold was an August Rock Island auction and the sale price was over $17.600.

 

[bigwagon]

The quotation marks look genuine for you owners of a Model 1917

Yes, that is how the mark appears on a S&W M1917

 

[BMur]

Collection

Very nice collection. I sincerely hope your friend recovers!

In my opinion the top Schofield is a legit model 1. The cylinder is shorter than the 45 Colt reproduction below it. If you zoom in you can see what appears to be the correct barrel address.

As far as the revolving rifle? If you look closely at my zoomed in photo you should notice what appears to be a 44 cal cylinder and bore. Look at the 30 cal rifles next to it? The revolving rifle is 320. Which is actually close to 30 cal. The photo is not good enough to confirm anything but to me is alarming. If it has been caliber changed the value is much less.

Murph

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

In my opinion the top Schofield is a legit model 1. The cylinder is shorter than the 45 Colt reproduction below it. If you zoom in you can see what appears to be the correct barrel address. Murph

The S&W 2000 Schofields had the original patent dates rolled
onto the side of the barrel and were made with the original cylinder
length (i.e. 45 S&W NOT 45 Colt). The difference is there is a
"45 S&W" caliber marking on the side of the barrel.


Cheers,
Webb

 

[BMur]

2000 Schofield

I’m just thinking it’s legit since the finish is lacking for a modern Schofield and I’m not seeing a caliber stamp on the barrel. See photo of 2000 Schofield. A 22 year old gun should still have a lot of finish. This is all a guess based on the photos provided.

Murph

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,



I am of the opinion that it is a 2000 Schofield. Agreed the caliber
stamp isn't readable but this is probably due the the angle of
the barrel and lighting causing significant glare at the point
where the caliber markings should be. Also, all the original
First issue Schofields I've seen did not have case colored latches.

The OP can check for these details and maybe they will post
and clear up the ambiguity.


Cheer,
Webb

 

[mmaher94087]

I'm not familiar (from the photo) with the two rifles next to the Revolving Rifle. I believe the RR to be legit though.

 

[Model19man]

Hi There,



I am of the opinion that it is a 2000 Schofield. Agreed the caliber
stamp isn't readable but this is probably due the the angle of
the barrel and lighting causing significant glare at the point
where the caliber markings should be. Also, all the original
First issue Schofields I've seen did not have case colored latches.

The OP can check for these details and maybe they will post
and clear up the ambiguity.


Cheer,
Webb

Totally agree on the latch.

One thing about the Model 2000 Schofields is that not all of them have the caliber marking on the barrel. For sure I think the one in the OP's picture is the one made by S&W more recently.

 

[DWalt]

More detailed and multiple individual pictures would be far more helpful in making positive IDs than group pictures. They also need to show all markings.

 

[cmansguns]

Update on the Big Project

I'm the OP on this project about some inherited handguns and long guns. My friend and I have been in contact several times since I posted earlier. He is recovering from an operation and now tells me that on December 12 he has a followup with his doc and if he is good to go he will start to send me pics and text info.

I had already told him no group shots, we will need right and left side, yoke/crane area, grips on off, pics of all markings and only transmit one gun at a time.

On the Schofield, he already confirmed that one is a Navy Arms/Uberti, another is what he believes is a S&W 2000 reissue, but the worn one is genuine 3 digit serial number Schofield and he will try to track down the paperwork when his dad had it at a big name auction and they had also verified its originality. The auction house was the one who told his dad they would list at $8,000, but he felt it was worth more so he pulled it and it cost him $500 to pull it from the auction. We will see once I have decent detailed pics and any other info...cause like I posted before...I am out of my comfort zone on Schofields so will for sure be picking the brains of you experts.

Regarding the revolving rifle, again...he had no idea of what it was. I told him that if it does turn out to be a S&W Model 320 that is in original caliber and condition it could be worth some very serious bucks.

We are going to concentrate on these two first.

I did inquire about storage of these seemingly great classics and he told me that all guns are stored in gun safes, with humidity controls, properly wrapped, so the group pics taken last fall are indicative of current condition. I was relieved to hear it, as I had visions of being stacked in a corner of a garage, laying under work benches, etc.

I am actually excited about helping my friend out. My honey-do lists all caught up, my own collection just doesn't need more research at this time, local estate sales and LGS visits have just dried up for decent guns (way too much plastic), ammo is still too pricy to "burn a bunch"....so this way I'm actually able to help someone else who has interests just like ours.

More when I get some pics and details...

 

[JH1951]

Here is a picture of the underside of a 1917 S&W for comparison.
Value of the 1917's vary widely based upon condition.