BK Grip Adapters

[wrangler5]

Kip:
I'm real happy with the J Frame grip,and would very open to trying K and N when available, just email me what you need in payment. I'll post pictures.

One thing I used to do when sanding/filing plastics was to use Acetone on a cotton ball to wipe the surface after sanding, and it sort of "smoothed" the surface out, leaving no marks. Not sure if would wofk with the particular compound you are using or not.

Interesting. I'll try the acetone trick, although my tests so far indicate these pieces are completely immune to both acetone and lacquer thinner, at least to wiping with either. Haven't tried soaking yet.

One thing I've noticed about my adapters is that they seem to be filled with microscopic bubbles. These generally do not appear on the surface, but virtually ANY surface removal I've tried reveals these little voids, which immediately fill with sanding dust or polishing compound. The result is a surface with zillions of little spots - you can't feel 'em, but they look ugly.

It's too bad, as it keeps me from salvaging any adapters that come out of molds after they start to deteriorate. What happens is that tiny pieces of the mold tear off, meaning subsequent castings will have a bump where the tear is. If I could smooth these bumps down I could keep using the mold for a while longer to make an acceptable product. But all of my attempts have run into these internal bubbles, which leave an unacceptable surface. (My bucket of unacceptable adapters is heartbreaking. )

 

[Chipmunk6]

Howdy Wrangler,
Don't scrap those 'seconds'. What you call unacceptable,some of us might
just call usable.Offer them at a reduced price(1/2 off maybe) and recoup
some of your cost, just my 2 centavos.

Chipmunk6

 

[Wingmaster]

I received my BK grip adapter and have to say I am very impressed. Fits great, looks great, I couldn't be happier.
I agree with Chipmunk. I would bet someone would buy a "second".

Thanks Wrangler

Wingmaster

 

[Black_Talon]

Forgive me if I missed it somewhere in this thread, or the T-grip thread, but what is the story behind the "BK" name for these?

 

[ddixie884]

Interesting.....................

 

[H Richard]

For those sanded ones that will have little ugly bubbles/spots. A little coat of Krylon plastic spray paint can do wonders. I have a Tyler aluminum that I wanted black. It is now.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Forgive me if I missed it somewhere in this thread, or the T-grip thread, but what is the story behind the "BK" name for these?

I don't think there is any truth to the rumor that manufacture started in a closed Burger King facility...

John

 

[wrangler5]

Forgive me if I missed it somewhere in this thread, or the T-grip thread, but what is the story behind the "BK" name for these?

You all need a little mystery in your lives.

 

[cjtraining]

My BK grips arrived today. I am very pleased with the quality, fit, appearance. I have not been to the range, but I'm sure I will be pleased with the grips performance. I think I'll list my Tyler's on eBay and buy more BK's.

 

[MAG-NUM]

Wrangler, I applaud your efforts to constantly improve your product. I haven't read all the posts here but I offer a couple of thoughts on removing bubbles from the parts.
Vibration or vacuum could be used. A small vacuum pump attached to a seal-able box with your mold should pull all the air out of your liquid before it sets up.
Or maybe you could fashion a vibrating table for your mold possibly from a ultrasonic cleaner that would vibrate all the air out.
Just a few thoughts for you to explore. Good luck, Bob

 

[wrangler5]

Wrangler, I applaud your efforts to constantly improve your product. I haven't read all the posts here but I offer a couple of thoughts on removing bubbles from the parts.

Vibration or vacuum could be used. A small vacuum pump attached to a seal-able box with your mold should pull all the air out of your liquid before it sets up.

Or maybe you could fashion a vibrating table for your mold possibly from a ultrasonic cleaner that would vibrate all the air out.
Just a few thoughts for you to explore. Good luck, Bob

Bob - apologies for the delay in responding to your suggestions, I have been busy trying to get my mold maker to get off his duff and make a mold for a K frame adapter which has been in his hands for going on 3 weeks now. In the meantime, my J frame mold shot craps and needs to be replaced too, as I'm running low on the J adapters.

I already do tilt and tap the mold immediately after pouring the resin. Any air bubbles that are introduced in the pour do come to the surface as a result.

The source of the zillions of microscopic bubbles throughout the inside of the finished product, though, apparently is not air trapped from the pour but moisture somehow being turned to steam as the material heats up during its curing process. If I watch a batch of clear (untinted) material cure in the cup in which it is mixed, it starts off perfectly transparent but as it gets hot and sets up the little bubbles appear pretty much throughout the material, except right at the surface.

I'm still trying to figure out where the moisture is coming from, as the materials have only been opened in my air conditioned basement, and I'm using measuring and mixing implements that don't appear to hold moisture (styrene mixing cups and steel stirring rods.) It remains a mystery.

I'm about to acquire a vacuum chamber, in order to be able to make my own molds. (I see the risk of relying on others for this step.) So I may just try curing parts in a vacuum - what could it hurt? If that doesn't work, maybe I'll even see if pressure would help.

In any event, thanks for the thoughts.

 

[Old cop]

I just received one for my J Frame and it looks and fits great. Keep up the good work, you should sell these by the truckload!

 

[A320graham]

BK's

Interested in a set of these for my S&W 28-2 in Black.
Thanks

 

[wrangler5]

For those sanded ones that will have little ugly bubbles/spots. A little coat of Krylon plastic spray paint can do wonders. I have a Tyler aluminum that I wanted black. It is now.

Thanks for this suggestion, H Richard. I finally found some gloss black Krylon (their "Fusion" line is for plastics) at WalMart - local Lowes or Home Depot don't carry Krylon, only RustOleum- and sprayed a few of my non-tinted (clear) castoffs. First impression - it takes 2 coats to make the clear models fully opaque, and still does not "fill" the microscopic bubble holes or cover any other surface irregularities. But it does make surface irregularities a bit less obvious. And I think it looks really nice.

The can says that after 7 days it is "fully chip resistant," whatever that means.

There is a Fusion "metallic shimmer" line with "nickel shimmer" (gray/silver) and "blonde shimmer" (gold) colors. Krylon also offers two other non-Fusion lines that they say work on plastic - a "metallic" line that includes a "silver metallic" color, which looks blue in the online swatch, and a "premium metallic" line that includes "silver foil", "original chrome" and "sterling silver" colors. One of those might work well for stainless and/or alloy framed guns.

Bottom line - I don't think I will be offering painted models (it's enough for me to keep track of orders for black ones at this point) but for those of you who want something a little different it's a pretty cheap modification. A spray can of "regular" fusion was $4.75 - don't know if the metallics are a bit higher.

 

[Jeb21]

Wrangler, this is a great thing that you are doing. Please let me us know when the k-frame square butt grip adaptors are available.

 

[wrangler5]

Thanks for the encouragement. I have been endlessly frustrated by my mold maker, to the point where I am about to try making them myself.

A mold for the square butt K frame was promised last week, but every day there was a new excuse why it didn't get made that day but would be done the next. He told me today that it would be done today and ready to go tomorrow (the mold has to set for 24 hours before it's removed from the box in which it's poured and is ready for use) so this is progress - we'll see if that really happens.

 

[wrangler5]

More on Krylon

Found myself in the paint aisle at WalMart yesterday and this can of Krylon hammered metallic jumped out at me. Well, it was under $6 so I left it in the cart. When I got home I picked one of my reject J frame adapters, wiped it off with mineral spirits, and gave it a couple of light coats just to see how it would look.

Judge for yourself:

View attachment 48715

Sorry I don't have immediate access to a stainless or light alloy gun to put it on (hmmm - maybe I really NEED a stainless gun, eh? For the business, you know.) But I think it looks pretty neat. It isn't aluminum, but I'd bet it would go nicely with stainless or alloy frame.

The two light coats completely hid the black of the original, and covered up some surface blemishes on the original to boot. I'll let it cure for the 7 days the can says it takes to become "fully chip resistant." Then I'll take it shooting, although even then won't be able to judge durability (unless it starts to peel immediately, which I don't expect.)

BTW, please try to ignore the light smear on the side plate - that's flash reflection off the ceiling. The studio lights I usually use are out on loan, so this shot was taken with a single flash in the hot shoe. It's late, and I want to get this posted, so I'm just making do with the quality of this particular shot.

 

[wrangler5]

K Frame Square Butt adapters available

I have begun making adapters for S&W K frame square butt models. Announcement is here http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...s-square-butt-k-frame-prototypers-wanted.html, looking for initial prototypers who will see if the same adapter works on N frame models (it does on my 1917, but may not on others - we'll see.)

I will post a new classified ad when I know if I can describe the item as suitable (or not) for N frames as well as square K frames. Meantime, those who are interested can look at the above thread for feedback from early users.

 

[JcMack]

I'll interject some stuff about Tylers I've observed over the last 45 yrs. I'll delete this post if it's off topic or objectionable:

1. Tylers have never been a "perfect" science. Sometimes they fit like a glove sometimes not so much.
2. The most important thing is to fit the Tyler as tight as possible without any wobble or the tabs WILL break.
3. On Tylers that fit well but still produce "see throughs" (where light can be seen between Tyler and gun grip) I've back filled with electrical tape to improve aesthetic appearance.
4. The wood grips supplied by S&W now are thinner and T grips should not be expected to fit like they did on the magnas they were designed for. In fact most any non magna grip will produce a different fit. The Tylers were mfgred. to magna grip specs.
5. The J Frame T1 will fit any K frame just dandy. They fit a RB K like a 66 or 19. The T1 is a bit shorter and narrower than a T3 K frame T.
6. I'm therefore going to assume anything that applied to Tylers will apply to BK's

What I am saying here is Tylers filled a niche in the shooting needs before rubber grips were invented. The Tyler was not designed as an appearance accoutrement, but rather a grip enhancement. So if you can't achieve a perfect fit, that's life.

I gotta say it's a great thing wrangler5 is doing.

 

[TACC1]

+1 on what JC just said.

I've been looking for adapters for break-tops, but didn't have any adapters. I put a BK Grip Adapter on a H&R 38 Hammerless, and it fits just fine.
wrangler5, as was suggested earlier, you might try selling some
of your rejects, if they're substantially okay. I'd be glad to try a couple on some other old S&W's. No point in letting them go to waste!
There seems to be a small gap at top of adapter on the H&R,
but what can you expect from an H&R?
TACC1

 

[wrangler5]

What about stainless steel tabs?

I'll interject some stuff about Tylers I've observed over the last 45 yrs. < snip >

2. The most important thing is to fit the Tyler as tight as possible without any wobble or the tabs WILL break.

< snip >

6. I'm therefore going to assume anything that applied to Tylers will apply to BK's

Question for users, especially any metallurgists who might be out there - should I consider switching to another material for these tabs? I hadn't thought about the possibility of breakage (after all, the tabs on my 50 year old Tyler are still intact.)

I am using copper because that's the way it's always been done. And, it's an easy material to work with simple hand tools and jigs. But I'm talking to a waterjet shop about having the things cut out of larger sheets (I've been shearing strips of copper, then drilling and cutting individual tabs before bending 'em in a jig.) They can cut any material I specify. So something like stainless steel ought to be feasible, if it makes sense.

The advantages of copper are that it won't rust and won't scratch a metal grip frame, even if there are some rough edges or burrs. Waterjet cuts leave a slight burr on the back side of the cut, and I'm told I'll have to sand that down if I want the tabs smooth on both sides - even with copper. But it can be done on a full sheet basis, before the tabs are individually snipped out, so it might not be too much trouble.

But what do you think about using stainless? It too wouldn't rust, and presumably would be stronger than copper and so should be less prone to breakage. Can you think of any downsides?

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[lebomm]

Your drills won't last as long. The stainless will work-harden at the bends and be prone to breakage. They CAN scratch a blued frame.
But hey, what do I know? I'm just a Tool & Die Maker.

Larry

 

[wrangler5]

Your drills won't last as long. The stainless will work-harden at the bends and be prone to breakage. They CAN scratch a blued frame.
But hey, what do I know? I'm just a Tool & Die Maker.

Larry

Thanks, Larry. I am NOT a tool and die maker, and that's just the sort of input I was hoping to get.

I would plan to have them cut from sheet stock by waterjet, which would also cut the locating hole for the bending jig. So drill longevity would not be an issue.

The bends (a straight tab is bent into a U shape before being cast into the adapter) are buried in the plastic, and I wouldn't think there is much bending there. I suppose the tabs might bend where they come out of the plastic. Is work hardening and breakage likely to be worse than copper though? That is the question.

Scratching might be the biggest issue. I do understand that if I waterjet the parts I will have to sand (or do something to smooth) the backside of the sheet if I want to get rid of the slight burr the water cut leaves. If I do that, and then tumble the cut out tabs (before bending them) in a case cleaner with some sort of grit, would I be able to soften the edges enough to pretty much eliminate the scratch risk? (A waterjet cut will round the corners of the tabs slightly, so there won't be a 90 degree point anywhere, unlike the tabs I currently cut out of copper strip.)

Thanks for the reply. Any others out there?

 

[Maximumbob54]

I would not buy the stainless only because non stainless steel I know of is rust "proof", it is only rust "resistant". And if the alloy of stainless is differnent that what is in the stainless frame then it could even scratch that. No likey. I will stick with copper. I can't wait for my K/N to come in the mail. I need to order another one and buy a can of that hammered finish paint. I'm also thinking of trying one of the sprays that dries with a grit texture. Looks like I may need to order two next time...

 

[H Richard]

Just FYI, here is an old pic of a .32 DA top break with a J frame Tyler T grip. Near perfect fit. Your J Frame should fit the same.

 

[Maximumbob54]

BK K/L/N sq on M64

Another satisfied customer:

Now I'm off to Home Depot to see about making the black maybe match the stainless. And of course more pics to follow... Even if I screw it all up...

 

[Maximumbob54]

Ladies and Gentlemen...

May I introduce to you, the Sir Elton John BK Grip...

Not quite what I had in mind... I thought silver to match the stainless and texture would help with the grip feel...

I may have cursed myself with my, "Even if I screw it all up..."

I'm not sure what to do. Strip it and go back and buy the hammered silver spray this time or just generic silver??? Or leave it alone and just have a "fabulous" looking grip adapter...

 

[celticfisherman]

this thread needs more pics...

I'll help with that problem when mine get here tomorrow.

 

[wrangler5]

Ladies and Gentlemen...

May I introduce to you, the Sir Elton John BK Grip...

< snip images >

Not quite what I had in mind... I thought silver to match the stainless and texture would help with the grip feel...

I may have cursed myself with my, "Even if I screw it all up..."

I'm not sure what to do. Strip it and go back and buy the hammered silver spray this time or just generic silver??? Or leave it alone and just have a "fabulous" looking grip adapter...

When asked about the endless, fruitless experiments to develop a working light bulb, Thomas Edison is reputed to have said that he never failed, he just found a thousand ways that didn't work.

The textured silver strikes me as a way that didn't work, and now we all know. So thanks for trying, and for sharing the results.

I sense that your experiments will continue. If they do, please keep us posted.

Edited to add:

I find that I have a can of that same paint (different color) and it says it's for METAL surfaces, with no mention of wood, plastic or any other surface on which it might be used. Don't know if that would make a difference in the way the color and/or texture would look when sprayed on plastic. But if you do decide to strip the adapter and paint again, it might be worth looking specifically for a paint that is designed for plastic. (Like the Krylon Fusion line mentioned in earlier posts.)

 

[TACC1]

H Richard,
Thanks for posting that pic of a 32 DA. That's exactly the one I have been wanting to check out. TACC1