That's rational,what about this guy that voted against em ya dumb jack wagon
Black day in Colorado
- Thread starter BobC357
- Start date
To be clear, I am opposed to HB 1229 and have done what I could in opposition. It is a ridiculous and badly written law and was introduced purely for political reasons by its supporters. It has not yet passed the full senate or been signed by the governor but probably will be.
The hearings have been nothing but a sham and were held simply because they must be held…no one changed their votes because of the hearings and FWIW, the vast majority of those showing up to the hearings were opposed to these bills.
Don’t take the following to be support for the bill. But, in the interest of accuracy:
The law does not prohibit a person from giving a gun to family members and the executor of a person’s estate can transfer guns to heirs. All gun manufacturers and dealers have firearms licenses, so sending a gun to them for repair or any other purpose is not a transfer to an unlicensed person and is not governed by this law.
A gun can be “temporarily transferred” (loaned) without a background check if it occurs in the home of the unlicensed transferee (I am unclear what this is intended to cover) or at a shooting range or while hunting, fishing, or trapping.
The bottom line is one will not be able to transfer a gun to someone who does not have an FFL unless a gun dealer runs the same NICS check that dealers are already doing on their gun sales. It basically makes intrastate sales of guns subject to the same restrictions as interstate transfers. It’s a stupid law but it does not limit my ownership of a gun or prevent me from giving or selling a gun to someone else.
Another new law, if and when it becomes effective, will prohibit magazines capable of holding more than 15 rounds from being brought into the state and those already here cannot be sold or given away within the state. Magazines already owned by a person are “grandfathered” in and may be kept and used. This law will be utterly unenforceable and will serve only to hurt the state’s economy. Any legislator who voted for it put party loyalty above the interests of all Colorado residents and should never be allowed to hold political office again.
Again, I am not speaking in support for these bills at all…
The Colorado House and Senate are controlled by Democrats and the Governor is a Democrat and all these gun bills are part of the Democratic party plan. That’s why they were proposed and why they passed. It is nothing but party politics. Colorado was seen by the Obama administration as a test state and they pulled out all the stops to lean on state democrats on these bills, include personal phone calls and a personal visit and testimony form one of their favorite show ponies, Mark Kelly.
While we need to keep fighting, we really need to mobilize for the 2014 elections and get some new legislators in place at state and federal levels. Right now it is pretty simple; if you live in a “blue” state, you are likely to get some new state gun control; if you live in a “red” state, you probably won’t. It is no more complicated than that.
Finally, to all of you who want to boycott the state and so on, I am not sure what you think you are going to accomplish. The people who back these laws won’t care (if they are willing to let Magpul move out of state they surely don’t care about your ski trip or whatever) and the only people who would suffer are the business owners and workers who may well have opposed these laws. There were many of us who showed up to oppose these stupid bills, but we were ignored.
If "boycotting" Colorado makes you feel good then do so, but don't think it is an effective form of protest or political action, and to avoid being hypocritical, if we get stuck with some federal gun control, you will need to boycott the United States. That will be interesting.
The hearings have been nothing but a sham and were held simply because they must be held…no one changed their votes because of the hearings and FWIW, the vast majority of those showing up to the hearings were opposed to these bills.
Don’t take the following to be support for the bill. But, in the interest of accuracy:
The law does not prohibit a person from giving a gun to family members and the executor of a person’s estate can transfer guns to heirs. All gun manufacturers and dealers have firearms licenses, so sending a gun to them for repair or any other purpose is not a transfer to an unlicensed person and is not governed by this law.
A gun can be “temporarily transferred” (loaned) without a background check if it occurs in the home of the unlicensed transferee (I am unclear what this is intended to cover) or at a shooting range or while hunting, fishing, or trapping.
The bottom line is one will not be able to transfer a gun to someone who does not have an FFL unless a gun dealer runs the same NICS check that dealers are already doing on their gun sales. It basically makes intrastate sales of guns subject to the same restrictions as interstate transfers. It’s a stupid law but it does not limit my ownership of a gun or prevent me from giving or selling a gun to someone else.
Another new law, if and when it becomes effective, will prohibit magazines capable of holding more than 15 rounds from being brought into the state and those already here cannot be sold or given away within the state. Magazines already owned by a person are “grandfathered” in and may be kept and used. This law will be utterly unenforceable and will serve only to hurt the state’s economy. Any legislator who voted for it put party loyalty above the interests of all Colorado residents and should never be allowed to hold political office again.
Again, I am not speaking in support for these bills at all…
The Colorado House and Senate are controlled by Democrats and the Governor is a Democrat and all these gun bills are part of the Democratic party plan. That’s why they were proposed and why they passed. It is nothing but party politics. Colorado was seen by the Obama administration as a test state and they pulled out all the stops to lean on state democrats on these bills, include personal phone calls and a personal visit and testimony form one of their favorite show ponies, Mark Kelly.
While we need to keep fighting, we really need to mobilize for the 2014 elections and get some new legislators in place at state and federal levels. Right now it is pretty simple; if you live in a “blue” state, you are likely to get some new state gun control; if you live in a “red” state, you probably won’t. It is no more complicated than that.
Finally, to all of you who want to boycott the state and so on, I am not sure what you think you are going to accomplish. The people who back these laws won’t care (if they are willing to let Magpul move out of state they surely don’t care about your ski trip or whatever) and the only people who would suffer are the business owners and workers who may well have opposed these laws. There were many of us who showed up to oppose these stupid bills, but we were ignored.
If "boycotting" Colorado makes you feel good then do so, but don't think it is an effective form of protest or political action, and to avoid being hypocritical, if we get stuck with some federal gun control, you will need to boycott the United States. That will be interesting.
25elk
Member
I lived in CO from 1964 to 1983 and it was a transformational time in my life. But even back then, the eastern and western slopes were like two different states, if not even two different countries. The majority of the outdoor activities take place on the western slope and the majority of the population is on the eastern slope. The state was Republican then but slowly changing as "easterners" moved to Denver, the Springs, Boulder and the rest of the country east of the Continental Divide. I haven't been there in 30 years now but I can't imagine the western slope changing that much. So the truth of the matter is that when you boycott the state you are really only hurting the people who actually need and support 2A rights. The economy is very fragile on the western slope and it doesn't take but one bad season to make a business go under. It is a real dilemma, because when you boycott the state you are only hurting the best of the state. The trash that wants to become another California will hardly be touched. Doesn't change the dynamic, but just something to think about.
Jack Wagon
Member
There is a price for freedom. What are you willing to do? You can stay in CO, be a leader in your community and fight for change. Or, you can move. No one said it would be easy. Cryin on a message board isn't going to cut it. Are you just gong to lay down, rollover, and take it?
OP
BobC357
Member
I'm not crying as you put it -- I just wanted to post how the deck was stacked against reason, prior law, data, studies, research, all the county sheriff's, ....
This was a Democrat agenda item. It was based purely on emotion and nothing more. The agenda is to rid citizens of the ability to defend themselves and, it was blatantly obvious. EVERY piece of information that attempted to sway the legislators to consider causes, data and studies showing their position was wrong, etc. was immediately discarded, ignored and mocked. Their mind was already made up.
I have written numerous letters to both senate and house representatives, the governor and the committee folks. Not a one was answered. NONE! I am signed up for multiple recall petitions and other activites but, so far, there just aren't enough others to make it happen.
When one party controls the entire state congress and governor positions, it is virtually impossible to get them to ever change their mind. It just doesn't happen.
Sadly, over 60% of the population didn't vote last election. Way over half. Things may have been different if they had but, I can't make them vote. With mail-in ballots and polling places convenient all over, I don't understand the poor turnout. I vote every election -- even the minor ones. Sadly, most do not.
So, if you have any suggestions on how to break the agenda minded and their agendas, I'm willing to look, listen and learn. Just saying to not lay down isn't enough. Offer the contructive with ideas and how-tos. If, however, the ruling left of Boulder & Denver continue to overpower the rest of the state as is the case based on a Republic method of government, then, there is little anybody can do. In that case, moving may be the only other reasonable option.
Jack Wagon
Member
Introduce 5-10 people to shooting. Take them to a range. Help get them comfortable with guns. Then, encourage them to introduce shooting to people they know. It starts with a single spark.
Etemmu
Member
Your Dear Leaders want your liberty and wont be happy until they get it. Phone calls and letters wont delay their attempts like it used to. How many 2A supporters were ignored at the hearings? Big shocker-it sounds like democracy is working great. Get ready to give them a real fight or just give them your liberty.
tford46292
US Veteran
The tyranny of the majority... Tocqueville, Democracy in America.
seasidehunter
Member
- Joined
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- Messages
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Very sad news, the commies are taking over
I wonder if I should even continue to put in for points for hunting in CO anymore.
I wonder if I should even continue to put in for points for hunting in CO anymore.
OP
BobC357
Member
Another big shocker is that America is NOT a Democracy. We are a Representative Republic where we elect representatives who then make decisions and do our bidding for us. At least, that is the way it is supposed to work. Today, they make decisions not for the people, their constituents, but for their party, their special interests and money.
The United States has evolved into a kind of dictatorship run by the courts who "interpret" the Constitution. Sure, the paper has it down in black & white but, the Supreme Court granted themselves permission to "interpret the meaning" of that sacred document and now, that document is a fluid and dynamic thing, no longer cast in stone.
The result is that many things the court had ruled were constitutional before are now being ruled as unconstitutional and vice versa. Unelected judges are setting the boundaries and defining the bounds of law.
seasidehunter
Member
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- Messages
- 14
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I am afraid of what eh gun grabbers are gonna do here in Cali - if it wasn't bad enough before I am sure it is about to get even worse.
Buffalohunter60
US Veteran
I hear what you are saying....judges can be corrupted and are appointed. The second amendment was well written and simple to understand, it does not require the analysis of a judge. "We The People" understand it perfectly and it was written to protect the people from a tyranical government....so "Not to be infringed means what it says" We are Home Land Security and it is up to us to Defend the Constitution. We can not expect anyone to do it for us. "We The People" have fought and died to support our countries wars....and "We The People" can defend the constitution. There are enough of us to do it...all we need is the will to do it and accept nothing less. Once our elected Politicions understand that, they will come around...they have no choice. This is our country...the Government works for us and is paid by us...so are the politicions. Its "Our" country. We are free men and we will remain free men. We are not the ones that need to fear. We are the sleeping Giant and there are millions of us....a very strong force and not to be taken lightly. Law enforcement will be with us...becaiuse its their freedom that is threatened also and so will many in the military....so just who is going to try to take our freedom? It will never happen....There are too many men that have fought for our freedom that will not roll over. Taking our freedom will never happen....I was willing to fight for my country when I was 17 and took the Oath...I am 65 now and have nothing to lose...."Try and Take Em" Freedom is the only thing worth fighting and dying for ....and those that try to take them will be doing a good part of the dying. They would not last long. I would not want to be on the team going from house to house to demand anyones guns because there are too many that are going to use them and dying is not much of a living. I do not care if this site is monitored by the government or not...they need to know what millions of us feel and what they will be up against. The second amendment is our protection against a corrupt government....but it is up to us to defend it....no one is going to do it for us. We can and will defend our freedom against any government forgien or domestic that tries to take it away from us. Who is going to fight their battle for them? It has always been "We The People" that fought their battles for them, they do not have the ability to take our freedom/guns and I understand what "Not To Be Infringed Means" Our elected Representatives can not enforce any bill that is unconstitutional.....its nothing but smoke.
HereSinceTheLongHunters
Member
As for the boycotting idea... Tourist dollars count and are a closely watched barometer for heavy recreation states (like MI where I live). I doubt that the "S&W Forum" demographic could make even a perceptible dent in the Co state budget, but it is a small way to vote if the opportunity arises. Spend your money elsewhere.
Sadly, probably the best thing law enforcement could do is to look for every extreme, sympathetic and unlikely character to bust... but then again, some little guy's life gets turned to poo just to make a point... folks like us don't do things like that.
Sadly, probably the best thing law enforcement could do is to look for every extreme, sympathetic and unlikely character to bust... but then again, some little guy's life gets turned to poo just to make a point... folks like us don't do things like that.
Jack Wagon
Member
Young at heart, but not young. Been to CO MANY times over my life. As long as the state is controlled by the fools now running it, I will gladly take your advice.
Tourists.....
Jack Wagon
Member
Tourism brings a lot of $$$ to CO. If CO is so cavalier about the money it makes from "tourists", there are many states that would gladly take those dollars from them.
You sound like the "young" one, whippersnapper.
Some light this morning:
At least three of the Democrats' signature gun bills are in danger of dying when they are debated on the Senate floor Friday.
Read more: Colorado gun bills: Dems need 18 votes or measures are doomed - The Denver Post Colorado gun bills: Dems need 18 votes or measures are doomed - The Denver Post
At least three of the Democrats' signature gun bills are in danger of dying when they are debated on the Senate floor Friday.
Read more: Colorado gun bills: Dems need 18 votes or measures are doomed - The Denver Post Colorado gun bills: Dems need 18 votes or measures are doomed - The Denver Post
Come on guys, we have a tough enough battle on our hands without fighting among ourselves.
If you want to 'boycott" the state, go ahead. I hope it makes a difference, but I am pretty sure it won't, especially since no one is going to know you are doing it. If you really want to send a message then you need to send a letter to the editor at the Denver Post explaining why you won't come here (so voters might see it) and send a letter to the Governor telling him why you won't come here, and send a letter to the state democratic party and to the legislators who voted for these laws, etc. Not that they would care, but either do something or don't lecture those who are doing what they can.
Simply not coming here means absolutely nothing. Sure the state benefits a lot on tourism but unless you can get several thousand people to boycott and let the state know they are doing so, your threat on a gun forum not to come here does nothing but poke at fellow gun owners who happen to read it.
Same thing with big game permits. There aren't enough to go around and people sometimes wait years to get the most desirable ones. No one will feel bad if more permits become available because some folks don't apply.
You want to make a difference? Send money to pro-gun lobbyists and support pro-gun politicians. If you guys in other states are really that upset about what has happened in Colorado, then I thank you for your concern and appreciate your help. Let me know and I'll tell you who send the checks to.
Let's keep this on point and not talk about how to protect our rights. I didn't vote for any of the fools who are trying to pass these laws, but enough people did that I am stuck with them. I hope to change that next time around but my state is shifting to the left, and I am not sure we can stop it.
tlay
US Veteran
NOW REPEAT AFTER ME!!!
I pledge alleagiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God,indevisable with liberty and justice for all!!!
I pledge alleagiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God,indevisable with liberty and justice for all!!!
