Blue Dot in .41 Mag

[Qc Pistolero]

Anybody has any news about the ''verboten'' warning about using Blue Dot in .41 Mag?Have they found what is happening?I want to use it in the .44 but I can't see why I can't use it in the .41 and it would be OK to do so in the .357 and .44Mag.
IMO it is either safe or it is not.A woman cannot be half pregnant.Has the ban been lifted?

 

[ken158]

I used to use it but the warning is still posted on the Alliant site for 41 mag and 357 mag with 125 gr bullets. Plenty of powder that works so no need in pushing it...

 

[Iggy]

Sure glad I found out about this.. Been using it in .41 Mag for over 40 years.. I guess I'm just lucky.

That being said, I won't use it again.

 

[Protocall_Design]

I've run Blue Dot in .357 Mag. for 30 some years. Never heard anything about the .41. Where is the warning?

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Sure glad I found out about this.. Been using it in .41 Mag for over 40 years.. I guess I'm just lucky.

That being said, I won't use it again.

Well,I was asking because this morning at the range I met a guy who says he's been using it in his .44 and .357 for the last 20 years or so and that he didn't have any problem.He's been using it summertime and wintertime at minus temps and never had any problem with it.
I've never used it but that's one powder I have been considering using.But that warning holds me from it!What is the cause of it and have they found what's the problem?

 

[Rule3]

Well,I was asking because this morning at the range I met a guy who says he's been using it in his .44 and .357 for the last 20 years or so and that he didn't have any problem.He's been using it summertime and wintertime at minus temps and never had any problem with it.
I've never used it but that's one powder I have been considering using.But that warning holds me from it!What is the cause of it and have they found what's the problem?

The warning and this question have been in effect for years. Blue Dot supposedly gets pressure spikes.

Yes, the warning is still on the website.

Yes, people have used it and are still alive

Yes, people shoot lead bullets in Glock barrels.

It is your decision. With all the powders out their why bother?

Did everything your Mother tell you actually come true?

Alliant Powder - Safety Notice

 

[Protocall_Design]

I am having very good success with H4227 in .44 Mag. It is temperature insensitive and giving 5 to 6 inch groups at 200 meters with a 300 gr. XTP bullet. Hogdon shows loads with .357, .41 and .44 with H4227.

 

[Dieseltech56]

H4227 is no longer available but many claim the "new" IMR 4227 is the old H4227

 

[Protocall_Design]

Hogdon is now distributing all Hogdon, IMR and Winchester powders. They are probably the same. They were the same before, as I loaded both in the past and got identical results.

According to their website, they only actually make the black powder (Goex) and black powder substitutes and source the rest from other makers.

 

[Amp]

Don't reload anymore. But I used many cans of Blue Dot when I did. Lit well and burned clean.

 

[Alk8944]

Hogdon is now making all Hogdon, IMR and Winchester powders. They are probably the same. They were the same before, as I loaded both in the past and got identical results.

Hodgdon is now distributing all Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders. Hodgdon has advertised that IMR 4227 and H-4227 are now identical, so what is the question. If you read their "Annual Manual" you will see this remark! Hodgdon doesn't manufacture anything, they distribute powders manufactured in Canada, Australia, Scotland, U.S. and others

 

[Qc Pistolero]

The warning and this question have been in effect for years. Blue Dot supposedly gets pressure spikes.

Yes, the warning is still on the website.

Yes, people have used it and are still alive

Yes, people shoot lead bullets in Glock barrels.

It is your decision. With all the powders out their why bother?

Did everything your Mother tell you actually come true?

Alliant Powder - Safety Notice

I know there are a lot of other powders to play around with;I've got over 75 # of it in my stash..But we reloaders are experimenters and as such,some powders come to tickle our fancy a little bit more than others.
But the question stands still:did the manufacturer come up with any explanation about its warning?

 

[muddocktor]

Qc, if you click the link that Rule3 gave you in post #6, they clearly spell out what they found. They found pressure spikes in 357 Mag loads with 125 grain bullets and in all 41 Mag loads. Since I don't own a test rig, I can't actually test this myself but I will go with what Alliant says on the matter. They do not say whether the pressure spikes were temperature dependent or other conditions associated with this happening, but I just stay away from loading BD with 125 grain bullets in 357 Mag. I don't own a 41 Mag so that part doesn't affect me. I still do occasionally load BD into 44 Mag with the lighter bullets and use it with 140 and 158 grain bullets in 357 Mag. And I have also used it in 9MM loads too; you can't cram enough into a 9MM case to get dangerous pressures.

With all that said, back in the 70's and 80's I used BD almost exclusively with all weight 357 Mag bullets with no issues. And that included a whole bunch of 125 grain bullets too.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

This has been re-hashed many times, but here goes.
.

Alliant Safety Notice:

During the latest review Alliant Powder discovered that Alliant Powder's Blue Dot® should not be used in the following applications:

- Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
- Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).

Use of Blue Dot® in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.

.

Isn't it odd that this important safety warning is nowhere to be found in their (121) page 2017 online (downloaded) Reloading Guide ?!?
(I couldn't find it in the older guides I searched either.)
.

I don't know when this warning was first issued but in a 2006 Propellant Profile article in Handloader #243 it only had this notice on Blue Dot:

"...Blue Dot’s only weakness: its susceptibility to extremes in temperature; notably, its slight weakening in very cold temperatures."
.
.

Blue Dot was introduced in 1972. The 41 Magnum came out in 1964.

How could it be used in this cartridge for so many years (decades) before it was deemed unsafe in it, with any bullet?

It's okay to load it in any 10mm Auto cartridge (1.56cc/vol). It's okay in any 44 Special (2.33cc/vol) or 44 Magnum (2.47cc/vol) cartridge.

How is this powder so "smart" that it knows not to burn safely only in a 41 Magnum case (2.19cc/vol) ?
(Or with a 125gr 357 Magnum bullet, but not a 110gr or 140gr bullet?)

Why aren't any other pistol powders this "smart"?

I think they settled a lawsuit & this was part of the agreement.

I could be wrong but it's shot safely in everything I've loaded it in from 9mm to 500 S&W Magnum, including 41 Magnums, for years.

Follow your own judgement.

.

 

[1-1917]

Lawyer deal I suspect. I would have to guess that this a response caused more from reloader error than powder performance. I just purchased 10lb of blue dot at a our local gun show for peanuts because nobody wants it anymore. I'll see what my M58, M657 and Ruger Bisley and about 15 rifles with cast bullets think about it.

 

[cowboy4evr]

If you look in the latest Speer #14 reloading manual you will find load data for the 41 magnum using Blue Dot powder . I guess Speer and Alliant don't talk to each other , even though both owned by the same parent company .
I have used Blue Dot for yrs in the 41 and will continue to do so . I researched the subject and found out the real reason for the warning issued by Alliant . One of the tech's at the powder co clarified it -- , " Be sure and always ck the COL when using any powder . Don't just go by bullet weight " .
There are many powders out there that do similar duty , HS-6 is a good example . If you can find it , IMR 4756 is a great performer as well . Regards , Paul

 

[Rule3]

I know there are a lot of other powders to play around with;I've got over 75 # of it in my stash..But we reloaders are experimenters and as such,some powders come to tickle our fancy a little bit more than others.
But the question stands still:did the manufacturer come up with any explanation about its warning?

Repeat.
Pressure Spikes.

Why experiment, when there is even a remote chance of bad things happening? But, heck, live on the edge

Just because others have survived??

I guess you can experiment with texting while driving or not wearing a seat belt. Lots of people do it.

Blue Dot is Flaming Dirt anyway unless used at or near MAX loads. It spits out little blue dots.

Use it in something else.

 

[Nevada Ed]

So you can not load a 357 Magnum 125gr bullet with Blue Dot powder...........
the 110 and 140gr work for me.

As for no BD in the .41.............
They do make outer powders, right ?

I still use Blue Dot in my 38 and 357 loads........ and 9mm.

PS:
I talked to S&W about this topic and I posted it on this forum back in..............

2008.

 

[Rule3]

Due a Google Fu search, This all goes back to at least 2009!!