Bought A M1 Garand Need Advice?

[AC Man]

I bought a 1943 serial number 1948102 . It was a estate sale. Advertised in excellent condition and excellent bore. It is not a CMP but from a 60 year old collection. Price seemed fair so I went for it. I won't have it for another week.

What should I look for to determine if the stock and barrel are original and other things to look for? Again, not a graded CMP. What say you?

Thanks!

 

[minconrevo]

Most likely a M-1 of that age has been rebuilt at least once and likely more. High probability it will have a replacement barrel, an updated op rod, updated rear sights and much more. The stock likely is not the one original to the receiver.

Nothing wrong, or incorrect with any of this. The M-1 was built to have full parts interchageability and that's how the government kept them running.

OP you are on the adventure of learning about the M-1; it's a fun one.

 

[Baxter6551]

OP I am assuming your M1 is a Springfield. If so, as you noted, your serial number dates from 1943. September according to the charts. Lock the bolt to the rear and look for a barrel date in the Op Rod cutout. Numerical month and year located after the drawing number (i.e. 4 55 in photo here) Look for an inspectors cartouche on the left side of the stock in the area of the rear sight (GAW in sample photo). This can be traced to the time period the inspector was assigned to the Armory.
You receiver is the only serial numbered part. All the numbers on other components are “drawing numbers” and can be researched to determine approx time frame part was produced.
If this is your first Garand I highly recommend obtaining a copy of the CMP “read this first” guide and also Scott Duffs “M1 Garand Owners Guide” available from many sources. Links below. There are many great manuals and books available for this rifle.

Many knowledgeable people here would probably share their thoughts. Photos will definitely help get info here. As noted it a fun journey researching one of these rifles. CMP Forum is helpful also.

Cmp M1 Garand : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

[ame]https://www.amazon.com/M1-Garand-Owners-Guide/dp/1888722037[/ame]

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

Step up at the range with a M1 Garand and strong men will bow in deep respect...applause will follow...women will throw themselves at your feet...and the enemies of America will flee in abject fear.

You did well...the M1 Garand is the most magnificent rifle ever designed and built. Shooting one gives great satisfaction.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

CMP forum has tons of Garand info.........Biggest thing is not shooting modern high pressure loads in it.

 

[DWalt]

Modern high pressure loads??? What loads would that be?

 

[clang444]

Back in WWI it must have been quite comforting for the rifleman who carried a Garand. If he ran out of ammo he could always use it as a club.

: )

I love them myself, I have 6 of them I picked up over the years from the CMP. Most are mixmasters, but one is an all original 1945 gun. I recommend using only ammo designed for a Garand so you don't bend your op rod.

 

[cmansguns]

get some books, join GCA, post pics, enjoy that masterpiece!

Congratulations on your find. Estate sales have got me some of my best specimens. Like already posted grab some books, download a bunch of articles off the Internet (like how to lubricate the M1..a grease and oil guide), etc.

Joining the GCA (Garand Collectors Association) is like this Forum, very helpful and knowledgeable folks always willing to help and just reviewing old posts and sticky's will tell you more than you ever wanted to know.

As far as what to look for when you get that beauty in your hands you may already know the rifle quickly breaks down into three groups, barreled action, trigger group, and stock. The stock..IF wartime or original issue will have cartouche(s) in some spots, maybe a proof mark under the hand grip. The trigger group will have a rebuild stamp, or electro pencil marks denoting the rebuild arsenal and date, OR if you are extremely lucky it may be original. Check the sights both rear and front, maybe yours are National Match (NM marked). The barrel will be stamped with manufacturer, month and year.

There are simply numerous other items to be checked, photo'd,
and recorded to complete your research, as example style and type of hammer, trigger guard, gas plug, etc. et. al. This why the books are your best friend

My Garand is a IHC (International Harvester Company) manufactured in 1953 for the Korean War. The stock has a "Box P" proof, the sights are NM, and the trigger group is original IHC. The barrel is Springfield Armory, dated August 1965. The rifle was arsenal overhauled by Red River Army Arsenal in January 1966 as one of the last M1's to be overhauled as the US Army stopped the M1 overhaul program in early 1967 to concentrate on M14 overhauls. Like also already posted I shoot ammo specifically labeled "for M1 Garand". Best availability for this ammo is CMP lately.

I really support the statement above about showing up at the range with an M-1..Literally ALL of the tacticool black plastic guys just stop firing to come over and watch you and that old warhorse perform. Especially neat (for me...as I can't assume the prone anymore) is to shoot a clip standing, sometimes with bayonet fixed... the classic wartime GI stanch.

 

[smithra_66]

Modern high pressure loads??? What loads would that be?

This is a hotly debated topic about whether or not you can use regular 30-06 factory loads.

Most of them are running at near full SAAMI pressure and obviously designed for bolt guns.

Garands are strong suckers but the old ball ammo they were designed around is not running at the same pressure as full house 30-06 loads. When you start to run heavier bullets, it's even more magnified.

There are people online who swear up and down that full house ammo won't hurt the gun.

ME, I shoot 150 gr. FMJs over 48 gr. of IMR 4064, or 168 gr. HPBTs over 46 gr. of 4064.

Period, end of story. I do not feed it anything other than that. I'm sure it can take more, but the op-rod is expensive and I don't see a reason to stress it at all.

That 150gr. load very closely approximates M2 ball, which is what I'd recommend getting ahold of if you are not a handloader.

 

[mckenney99]

I will second the above recommendations on getting the Scott Duff books and highly recommend joining The Garand Collectors Association. They put out a tremendous magazine 4x a year and the members are incredibly knowledgeable about ALL things M1 Garand. Membership GCA will also meet one of the requirements for access to CMP purchasing.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Modern high pressure loads??? What loads would that be?

Any modern hunting load. They are loaded to higher pressure and some with heavier than 150 gr bullets. You can bend the op-rod. Garands have a limited pressure range in which they work well. Go CMP forum and check it out. I only shoot "gGarand pressure" loads in all mine. Hornady makes Garand safe loads.

 

[Spurdann]

Get yourself a can or two of M2 ball on clips, shoot it up, reload it and shoot it… you will wear out long before your Garand will stop shooting.

 

[ron 57]

Quite likely it’s been rebuilt a time or two since 1943. When you have it in hand, remove the action from the stock, lock the bolt back and with a good light look closely at both sides of the receiver along the bolt recess and op rod track. Check for discoloration and porosity in the metal. Before M1’s we’re somewhat plentiful many were welded together from demilled receiver halves.
Also check under the barrel where it screws into the receiver for evidence of weld marks. Many Legion and VFW rifles were welded there.
If any of the above is present it doesn’t necessarily mean the rifle is unsafe but would merit a closer inspection.
Enjoy your M1, it’s a hoss!

 

[DWalt]

This site provides some good experimental information about ammunition for use in the M1. A careful reading is necessary to draw conclusions. Generally speaking, nearly all commercial .30-'06 hunting loads having bullets lighter than 180 grains produce port pressure and total impulse levels which are equivalent to or less than those produced by the heaviest M2 military Ball ammunition. Commercial .30-'06 loads which use 180 grain and heavier bullets generally produce port pressures and total impulse levels exceeding those of M2 Ball. The message is that using commercial .30-'06 ammunition having bullets lighter than 180 grains should be satisfactory in an M1. If there is a need to use heavier bullet .30-'06 commercial ammunition, installing an adjustable M1 gas plug should be considered. The M1 Garand and Commercial Ammunition - GarandGear BTW, there is no such thing as a commercial .30-'06 +P+ load. Reloading for an M1 is a separate topic, and using reloading data recommended specifically for use in M1s should be mandatory. Propellants similar to IMR 4895 are best for use in the M1.

Exactly as any other US military small arms, nearly all M1s have been rebuilt and components, major and minor, replaced a few times during their service life. Nothing to be concerned about.

 

[jack the toad]

I'm not an expert but have enjoyed M-1's for years, having owned several service/rack grade shooters (DCM & CMP), plus a few collector grade. Based on my very limited knowledge, I would anticipate mis-match parts and be more curious how it shoots but that might not mean much to you. First thing for me would be gauge barrel wear at throat and muzzle. But without gauges, can improvise somewhat, to an extent with bullet in the muzzle.
But best way IMO, is put on paper to see. If shoots to your liking, I wouldn't go looking for problems. As to ammo, I'd stay with M2 Ball or the current stuff made to M2 specs. Otherwise, you can check on either vented or adjustable gas plug to regulate higher pressure ammo. Just my opinion. Good luck and keep us posted.
ETA:
Dwalt's post has some good ammo info.

 

[OldK22]

60 year old collection could put your Garand in the time period of the flood of reweld receivers used to build up rifles. Remove the trigger group and stock from the receiver and check very closely for evidence of welding. De-milled front and rear halves of receivers were welded together and machined. Some are very hard to spot.

 

[Dvus]

Like "jack the toad" said, shoot it and see if it shoots to your liking before taking any throat and muzzle readings too seriously. I am down to four Garands at the moment, I decided to keep my originals and sold the re-arsenaled ones. I have a Springfield Armory, an H&R and an International Harvester. Also a documented National Match. My IH looks pristine and I can dust clay pigeons with it at 125 yards consistently. So I was shocked when I finally dropped my muzzle gauge in it and it fell in all the way to the handle. Sometimes worn out isn't. Being the original barrel, I wouldn't replace it, but shooting like it does, I wouldn't anyway.

 

[Kp321]

As DWalt says, the port pressure is what is critical to keep from bending an op rod. Even 150 grain ammo loaded with slower powders can produce excessive port pressure. There is plenty of ammo that is listed as M1 safe available or reload with appropriate amounts of 4895 or 4064. Avoid 4350 or 4831 speed powders.

 

[LVSteve]

Military semi-auto guns are (mostly) set up to run with medium burn rate powders and bullets in the mid range for caliber. Even guns that that have adjustable gas systems can run into trouble with modern hunting ammo using dual base powders and long burn times. This ammo is typically marketed as getting you the maximum velocity for the minimum recoil.

I found that the Winchester Red X 150gr .308 ammo had a gas impulse far too long for the gas system on a FAL. The other thing is that all too often the ejection with long dwell ammo can lead you to think you have too little gas, when in fact you have too much for too long. Been there, screwed up. Oddly, Remington Green Box .308 150 gr FMJ works perfectly in a FAL, just the same as German 7.62x51 NATO.

NOW A PSA.

In about five minutes somebody will be along squeaking that .308 runs way more pressure than 7.62x51 NATO. They are wrong.

Rant: Another gun rag gets .308 vs 7.62 NATO wrong

 

[dave1918a2]

Best advice I ever got when I got My first Garand was" get the proper ammo and shoot the heck out of it!"