Bought a unique S&W M&P 1899 Nickel for my Wife's Birthday

[DEL56]

I have been trying to find a nice S&W M&P 1899 Nickel 5 inch revolver for my wife for several years. She has one, but it is not in that great of shape. She keeps commenting to me that it wasn't fair that I had all these nice S&W M&P Military revolvers and her's looked so bad. Then not long ago one showed up on Gun Broker for sale. I showed her the posting and she liked it, but only if I got it cheap. She totally forgot about it, but I didn't. I put in my bid and kept watching. As I was looking at the pictures in the posting in more detail, I noticed something that I had overlooked. There was a strange bump on the butt of the revolver and the serial number was on the front of the grip strap. Serial numbers on the front grip strap normally are on the Military issued 1899 revolvers. But this serial number was not in that range, which is 5001-6000 for Navy and 13001-14000 for Army. I thought it might have been ordered with a lanyard ring. But the S&W letter for this revolver posted in the Gum Broker auction didn't state that. so I called Mike Priwer and had him look at the pictures. We were both puzzled at this unique situation. So Mike suggested I contact Lee Jarret and see what he thought. So that went on for a while and then I received a message from Roy Jinks to give him call. So I did. He couldn't find anything in the records mentioning a lanyard ring for the revolver so did not know why there was a screw in the butt nor why the serial number was on thee front grip strap. I know I am guessing here, but maybe it was an over run frame from the military contract and was sitting around and they decided to put it back in the assembly line. Or was there for a lanyard ring order that didn't come in and was just put back in the line. It is pure conjecture, but given why previous at a factory, there is that possibility. Either way, I am glad I got it and my wife sure appreciated this unique birthday present. It is all numbers matching and I can even see the patent information on the grips. So don't think it was shot much over the past 122 years. It will be shot some now though.

 

[19leben]

Interesting. How about a picture of the front strap showing the serial number?


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[44Aficianado]

Ya gotta love the early Hand Ejectors. So much history and craftsmanship there. Beautiful revolver!

 

[dwh]

Why is there a screw in the bottom of the grip frame? Is it a filler for a butt swivel.

 

[mikepriwer]

There are two pictures, one after another, that show the serial number on the front grip strap. Presumably, the screw is filling a threaded hole in the bottom of the grip frame, that was intended for a butt swivel. There is no serial number on the butt, and there is a serial number on the front strap, so clearly the factory intended for the gun to have a butt swivel, and for that reason did not stamp a serial number on the butt.

It's interesting to note that the swivel mounting hole is threaded. This would imply that the swivel itself would not be able to rotate, but rather would be tightened up on its threads. In 1900 and 1901, there were about 15 or so Models of 1899, ordered by West Point cadets. Two of those guns have turned up. and both have swivels that do not rotate, but rather are screwed in tight into the butt. The butts were serial number stamped, and the swivel hole was drilled right through the middle of the serial number. All of this indicates that these revolvers were completed without swivels, and and placed in inventory. As the West Point orders came in, guns were taken out of inventory, and drilled for a butt swivel. Additionally, a serial number was then stamped on the grip frame under the grip, directly over the main spring tension screw. These swivels were originally made up for a top break model, into which they were screwed in tight.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[robertrwalsh]

Seriously way cool. Congrats.

 

[dobegrant]

congratulations very interesting gun

 

[walter o]

The pictures of the lock work are wonderful Showing the difference engineering features that S&W was incorporating in their firearms .The progression to what they finally came up with .THIS WOULD BE A INTERESTING STUDY IN IT'S SELF

 

[Muley Gil]

There are two pictures, one after another, that show the serial number on the front grip strap. Presumably, the screw is filling a threaded hole in the bottom of the grip frame, that was intended for a butt swivel. There is no serial number on the butt, and there is a serial number on the front strap, so clearly the factory intended for the gun to have a butt swivel, and for that reason did not stamp a serial number on the butt.

It's interesting to note that the swivel mounting hole is threaded. This would imply that the swivel itself would not be able to rotate, but rather would be tightened up on its threads. In 1900 and 1901, there were about 15 or so Models of 1899, ordered by West Point cadets. Two of those guns have turned up. and both have swivels that do not rotate, but rather are screwed in tight into the butt. The butts were serial number stamped, and the swivel hole was drilled right through the middle of the serial number. All of this indicates that these revolvers were completed without swivels, and and placed in inventory. As the West Point orders came in, guns were taken out of inventory, and drilled for a butt swivel. Additionally, a serial number was then stamped on the grip frame under the grip, directly over the main spring tension screw. These swivels were originally made up for a top break model, into which they were screwed in tight.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Mike, were the West Point cadet revolvers chambered in .38 Military or in .38 Military & .38 special?

 

[DEL56]

There are no caliber roll markings on my West Point revolver.. Chambered in 38 Special. Mike Priwer has a posting on Caliber Roll Markings. The serial number for mine is made before they started roll marking them.

 

[Alk8944]

Beeeutiful (needed 10 letters)


Too bad it's your wife's and not mine, I absolutely love it. Glad she is going to shoot it!

 

[Muley Gil]

"I have been trying to find a nice S&W M&P 1899 Nickel 5 inch revolver for my wife for several years."

When I first started this post, I thought you were trying to trade your wife for a 5" nickel 1899 revolver.

 

[H Richard]

That is one of the "mintiest" 1899's I've ever seen. Far superior to the couple I have had the pleasure of having. I hope your wife enjoys it. I'm sure you know to keep the loads in the target W/C range.

 

[upcountry]

Very nice thing for you to do, I hope it's well used and enjoyed by her
I've been accused of buying guns for my wife that I want.
Go figure.

 

[mikepriwer]

Gil

Mine is serial 1254, and it chambers a 38 special shell. Dewayne's serial number 20XX, and as he says above, chambers a 38 special shell. These are very early in the 1899 production, as evidenced by the low serial numbers - too low to have a caliber marking. They are not military contract guns, but rather were already built and sitting in inventory when the orders came in.

These two that are known went to 4th year cadets, who would graduate in a month or two. This class was about 40 cadets, and maybe 10 of them ordered an 1899 revolver. The guns were shipped to each cadet separately. Maybe another 5 each went to 3rd and 2nd year cadets.

Regards, Mike

 

[DEL56]

I was asked if I could take some better pictures of the revolver. So here they are. Hope these show the revolver better.