Bought my first RCBS dies

[gwpercle]

I know this is going to sound strange. I was having trouble getting a firm crimp on some 9 mm Luger loads with a set of Lee carbide dies . I was using a CH shell holder , purchased 30 years ago along with some CH steel dies . I just grabbed the first 9mm shell holder I saw in the box....When I changed to a Lee shell holder the dies started crimping properly ! Evidentially some shell holders are thicker or thinner than others. Just wanted to throw that out as something else to look at when dies aren't doing right.
Glad you got the crimping issue sorted out, my 9mm crimp issue gave me fits...that round can be a little stinker sometimes.
Lee gets bad mouthed but they have some ingenious products.The FCD , Universal Case Expander , Universal Decapper and my favorite a $20.00 double cavity bullet mould with handles. I remember when steel moulds and carbide dies were expensive. Then Lee came along !
Gary

 

[AveragEd]

You can find shell holders from the same manufacturer that vary minutely in height but enough to affect the loading process.

Ed

 

[BruceM]

I've never found a need to crimp .30-06 rounds for a bolt-action rifle.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

A whole bunch of folks have tried in a very diplomatic way to explain to you what's wrong. I will now proceed the old fashioned way.

They reason you are having problems is about 98% likely to be operator error. You insist on crimping loads which absolutely do not need to be crimped and then, as far as I can determine do not trim fired cases to uniform length (as directed by RCBS) before doing so. These dies, as do most other standard dies, apply a roll crimp. If the case lengths are not uniform, you WILL get the results you report. There are no "ifs", "ands" or "buts" about it. It does not matter if the lengths of the sized cases are all within tolerance. It does matter if the lengths are uniform. You refuse to try what is recommended and then complain about the results. If you don't follow instruction-just what do you expect? Do you feel RCBS tells you the case lengths need to be uniform just for grins?

In the grand scheme of things the .30-06 round in an 8 or 9 pound rifle is not a "heavy kicking beast". Does it generate more recoil than a 5.56 in an AR-absolutely. Does it kick as much as a .338 Win Mag or .340 Weatherby- not nearly and those are not really "heavy" calibers.

Before you get all hung up on the Lee FCD for rifle calibers such as the .30-06, be advised that they are not recommended for use with bullets without cannelures by the bullet manufacturers. If you think you're having problems now, try doing .30-30 or .35 Remington ammo which actually needs to be crimped without trimming cases.

Do yourself a big favor for once and try loading these rounds without crimping and check them for setback. The odds are that even if the bullets should move, it will not be a significant amount. Usually with lead core hunting bullets, you will see the nose flatten long before the bullets will move in the cases.

Do what we have told you and avoid a lot of heartburn or insist on doing what you're doing and continue to struggle. Thousand of users have constructed highly accurate .30-06 rounds as we have told you using standard RCBS dies without issues and you could too.

Bruce

P.S. I wouldn't give you 2 cents for the LEE dies and the FCD is a work around for problems which should not exist in the first place, especially in your case.

 

[Clovishound]

^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

A whole bunch of folks have tried in a very diplomatic way to explain to you what's wrong. I will now proceed the old fashioned way.

They reason you are having problems is about 98% likely to be operator error. You insist on crimping loads which absolutely do not need to be crimped and then, as far as I can determine do not trim fired cases to uniform length (as directed by RCBS) before doing so. These dies, as do most other standard dies, apply a roll crimp. If the case lengths are not uniform, you WILL get the results you report. There are no "ifs", "ands" or "buts" about it. It does not matter if the lengths of the sized cases are all within tolerance. It does matter if the lengths are uniform. You refuse to try what is recommended and then complain about the results. If you don't follow instruction-just what do you expect? Do you feel RCBS tells you the case lengths need to be uniform just for grins?

In the grand scheme of things the .30-06 round in an 8 or 9 pound rifle is not a "heavy kicking beast". Does it generate more recoil than a 5.56 in an AR-absolutely. Does it kick as much as a .338 Win Mag or .340 Weatherby- not nearly and those are not really "heavy" calibers.

Before you get all hung up on the Lee FCD for rifle calibers such as the .30-06, be advised that they are not recommended for use with bullets without cannelures by the bullet manufacturers. If you think you're having problems now, try doing .30-30 or .35 Remington ammo which actually needs to be crimped without trimming cases.

Do yourself a big favor for once and try loading these rounds without crimping and check them for setback. The odds are that even if the bullets should move, it will not be a significant amount. Usually with lead core hunting bullets, you will see the nose flatten long before the bullets will move in the cases.

Do what we have told you and avoid a lot of heartburn or insist on doing what you're doing and continue to struggle. Thousand of users have constructed highly accurate .30-06 rounds as we have told you using standard RCBS dies without issues and you could too.

Bruce

P.S. I wouldn't give you 2 cents for the LEE dies and the FCD is a work around for problems which should not exist in the first place, especially in your case.

First of all, yes I did trim my cases to the same length. I understand the reason that needs to be done with this type of die.

Second, the instructions for the Lee FCD specifically say they can be used for bullets without crimp grooves.

Third, every round I loaded from no crimp to just prior to the case buckling has had setback problems.

I have been doing exactly what everyone has been telling me to do and the only bullets that have not had setback problems are the ones that I crimped with the FCD.

I am not hung up on needing to crimp rifle rounds that are going to be run through a bolt action, but I am not comfortable in using ammo that has bullets that set back into the case with a few raps on the bench.

 

[BruceM]

Simple solution:

Measure O.D. of expander ball and the I.D. of sized and expanded cases. The expander should be at least .002" smaller than the diameter of your bullets (.306"). The I.D. of the expanded cases should be roughly the same. With all due respect, crimping is not a substitute for neck tension. With all due respect to Richard Lee, the use of the rifle FCD on bullets without a cannelure if not recommended by the manufacturer of the bullets for a number of relatively obvious reasons.

Incidentally, rapping a bullet on your loading bench is a pretty poor simulation for the feeding and recoil characteristics encountered during the operation of a rifle.

Bruce

 

[LAA]

snipped

P.S. I wouldn't give you 2 cents for the LEE dies and the FCD is a work around for problems which should not exist in the first place, especially in your case.

Here is what I do. I've already established the fact, that some of us, don't like a particular brand of products. I can assume that most remarks (from those who express their displeasure) will be negative. I'll put this in the memory file of "maybe" and "maybe not". At that point, I'll do a lot more research through many forums, articles that can be accessed on the internet, etc. Then I'll come up with conclusions. Happily for myself, I speed read, and tend to gather a lot of information quickly.

IMO, these days, research outside the bounds of one or two forums is all anyone can do. There are far too many differing opinions out there. At the end of the day, the person who asks a question, can be farther confused. Just keep on reading, is the only solution, and it still isn't perfect.

 

[Clovishound]

Final post for me.

Called RCBS yesterday. Waited for a long time on hold. They finally said they would call back. I wanted to be at the press, so I called back today. CS guy had me go through the same steps in instructions, same steps I've done a half a dozen times. Pushed the loaded round against the bench and it set back about .020. He asked about brass, wanted me to measure expander ball. I did that last week. Bottom line, he couldn't figure out what was going on. He didn't seem overly motivated to make me happy with the product.

Rather than spend money shipping this thing back to RCBS along with a couple cases, and bullets, I believe will just go with an FCD. It works, I know it works. I pulled a test bullet with the inertial that had been crimped with the FCD. It took the normal 2 hard whacks on the concrete floor to pull.

I may just get a 3 die set, rather than piecemeal, and just chalk it up to experience. Right now I'm pretty frustrated.

 

[Jupiter01]

Hang in there! It will get better!

 

[federali]

Go RCBS

I've been using RCBS and Lyman dies since the 1960s. No complaints. I did have a minor issue with some RCBS .223 dies. The company promptly fixed them free of charge.

I now also use Lee dies but I find them to be too short to easily work on a Dillon press. I notified Lee of this and received a flippant response from a pseudo-executive. Apparently, compatibility with the best-selling press in the industry did not interest them.