Brad Pitt Goes to 'War' with S&W M1917

[Muley Gil]

Thanks for expanding on the facts, Muley. Of course I read this as it's mentioned in his book. However, the details, UA vs. Auburn, I could not recall specifically. My knowledge of the great state of Alabama is purely anecdotal. I've never been there.

What could you expect from a kid born in NYC and bred 5 miles from Kennedy Airport?
You know how us Yankees are

One of the first questions that is asked of any newcomer to the Great State of Alabama is: Who you gonna pull for-Auburn or Alabama?

Someone once asked, "Is football as important in Alabama as religion?"

Answer, " Oh no! Football is much more important!!!!"

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

Originally posted by Texas Star.
If you watch, "The Bridges at Toko-Ri", William Holden's character was wearing what I think was a Western brand "shark knife." He was a lawyer from Denver and Western was in Colorado, so that was very plausible. I saw their knives in most suitable stores while I was stationed in Denver in the 1960's. But I bought Buck and Randall. I did get a used small Western sheath knife, which I still have. The movie, of course, is about the Korean war, not WW II. You can sometimes find it or excerpts on YouTube. Good film!

BTW, in the book, I think James Michener (sp?) mentioned that the pilot hero had fired his Victory Model .38 just six times in training. That seems very likely. When his F-9F Panther (a Banshee in the book) was shot down, he reflected about that. I won't say how he got a .30 carbine or how it ended; that'd be a spoiler for those who haven't seen it. The movie also starred Mickey Rooney and Grace Kelly.

Talk about coincidence, after the war , my dad remained in the USNR and flew in a anti submarine patrol squadron out of Willow Grove NAS just north of Philly. While there he met James Mitchner several times. Mitchner was from the SE Pa and based parts of "...Toko Ri" on research obtained from a squadron stationed in Wilow Grove at the time. Much of the info was obtained during cocktail hour at the officers club and off base watering holes frequented by fliers.
I like all of his books. And think the musical "South Pacific" to be the Cats meow, especially Mitzi Gaynor.

John

 

[calmex]

I don't know about the treads, but don't think WW II Shermans had muzzle brakes (not "breaks").

Something bothered me about that 75mm, and I think that's it.

The muzzle brakes were probably inspired by those on German tanks.

Some British-used Shermans had upgraded, more powerful guns. Don't know if they used brakes. Did the Soviet T-34?

The British Sherman Firefly with the 17-pounder gun had a muzzle-brake. Seeing the photos of Pitt's Sherman, it's not a Firefly. The Firefly completely eliminated the forward machine-gun/radio-operator position to use for ammo-storage.

So whatever gun Pitt is using, it's probably not the 17-pounder -- which would penetrate the Tiger or the Panther. But they were a Commonwealth tank as far as I know.

 

[dswancutt]

Does the tread pattern and muzzle break on the main gun stand out to anyone else as post WWII upgrades ?

This tank would be correct for a very late war (Sept 44 and later) Sherman as it has the HVSS suspension and 76mm gun. The muzzle brake is correct but the tanks where shipped without a brake but with a threaded barrel and thread protector and added as they became available.

 

[sigp220.45]

I think the most remarkable use of a sidearm in WW II may have been the case of an airman on a B-17 who used an S&W .38 to shoot down an attacking ME-109! The US airman's .50 cal. machinegun had run dry and he was desperate to kill the German pilot. Apparently, his bullet got through the propellor and did just that! That also reflects on just how close Luftwaffe planes came to US bombers.

I can't recall where I read that account. Does anyone else know the details or the airman's name? No idea if the .38 was personally owned, but it was probably the usual M&P model. It was surely a remarkable feat! I hope he got an award.

The airman's name was Paul J. Posti, of Glendale, CA. In Charlie Pate's excellent book "U.S. Handguns of WWII: Secondary Pistols and Revolvers" on page 268 there is a reprint of an article from the Los Angeles Times dated 4/2/44 detailing the account. Posti says "I grabbed my .38" - the only description of the gun. The plane was a Focke-Wulfe 190.

 

[Muley Gil]

"Col. Chas. Askins wore a .38 New Service Colt with a cutaway trigger guard in the war..."

IIRC, Col Askins also carried a .44-40 New Service in the war. He had a S&W .44 Magnum in Viet Nam as well.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Sgt. Brad Pitt and crew are disheartened by the thrown track on their Sherman. They are hostile but not mobile. Where the heck is that guy from AAA?

 

[Modified]

I guess I'm not alone watching movies to see what guns they use.

You maybe should be. Some movies are particularly enjoyable because the guns are almost characters.

Many of Michael Mann's movies are very gun-centric. Movies like Joe Kidd are great just for the guns that are in them. I love watching a movie that was clearly made by a gun nerd, you don't have people slapping cylinders closed with a flick of their wrist, or extraneous threatening gun noises every time someone points a gun at someone else.

 

[Texas Star]

Sgt. Brad Pitt and crew are disheartened by the thrown track on their Sherman. They are hostile but not mobile. Where the heck is that guy from AAA?

Note that the missing machinegun from the bow of the tank is now present. Also note the M-3 SMG on the tank. But the other crewmen don't seem to have their sidearms visible.

 

[Texas Star]

"Col. Chas. Askins wore a .38 New Service Colt with a cutaway trigger guard in the war..."

IIRC, Col Askins also carried a .44-40 New Service in the war. He had a S&W .44 Magnum in Viet Nam as well.

Askins was in Vietnam prior to the US official involvement, I think. He hunted there. I recall him killing a guerilla that I think he referred to as Viet Minh, not Viet Cong. One shot from the M-29 did the job.

"Well, of course," you may think. But I knew a cop who shot a fleeing thug four times through the chest with a .44 Magnum, and that felon ran for another block or two before dropping.

I think Askins's target was DRT. (Dead Right There.)

 

[bgrafsr]

Old Blood and Guts carried his 3 1/2" Registered Magnum more than he did his 1911. It too had ivory grips with his initials, GSP, on them. He referred to it as his "killing gun".

Who would have told Patton he couldn't carry his RM or the Colt SAA, because they weren't regulation? I wonder if Monty would have.

 

[Watchdog]

Apparently Dye showed them no mercy.

Dye's the real deal. In the DVD set for Band of Brothers, there's a special feature segment showing Dye running those guys ragged. He was also a consultant/advisor for Platoon, I think. I want to think he may have had a hand in Full Metal Jacket as well, but I kinda don't think he and Stanley Kubrick would've gotten along, so that probably didn't happen.

Dye has a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. There's an interesting interview with him talking about the making of Platoon.

He's almost 70-years-old now, but I sure wouldn't want to mess with him.

 

[Watchdog]

Who would have told Patton he couldn't carry his RM or the Colt SAA, because they weren't regulation? I wonder if Monty would have.

Monty was such a prima donna, even Eisenhower became sick of him and seriously considered relieving him of command. I'm sure Patton was sorely tempted to just shoot him and blame it on the Germans. With Monty, it was all about ego and self-aggrandizement. Omar Bradley couldn't stand him.

Monty was mostly to blame for the failure of Operation Market Garden and the loss of a lot of American lives. He's probably the most overrated "commander" of WWII, but if you look him up on UK websites, he's treated almost as a god.

 

[Chromedhearts]

The references to Patton wearing non-issue items calls to mind; at the time Patton recieved his "Star", the U.S. Army allowed the new
General Officer to design "His" uniform.

 

[Muley Gil]

His tanker uniform looked like a cross between a football player and a bumblebee.

 

[PALADIN85020]

I think I'd like to see the movie. When I was growing up, my next door neighbor was in a tank destroyer outfit in the Huertgen forest during the Battle of the Bulge. His widow has a bunch of artifacts he brought back as war souvenirs. He said he'd never touch a gun again after the war. After he died, his widow found a Luger wrapped in a rag up above their bookshelf in their living room. She called the cops to take it away. The officer who came told her it was valuable, and did she really want to do that? She's a certified holophobe, and she told him to take it. He lucked out. I wish she had thought to call me. Although I lived in El Paso at the time, I would have driven to Phoenix to get it.

My step-father-in-law was a young officer in a tank outfit in Patton's Third Army, serving in Creighton Abrams' command. He willed his service .45 Auto to me - it's pictured in my album here on 1911 service pistols.

Smith & Wesson Forum - PALADIN85020's Album: U.S. Models 1911 and 1911A1 .45 pistols

Those were trying times, and these men were called the "Greatest Generation" with good reason.

John

 

[Watchdog]

My step-father-in-law was a young officer in a tank outfit in Patton's Third Army, serving in Creighton Abrams' command. He willed his service .45 Auto to me - it's pictured in my album here on 1911 service pistols.

Smith & Wesson Forum - PALADIN85020's Album: U.S. Models 1911 and 1911A1 .45 pistols

Those were trying times, and these men were called the "Greatest Generation" with good reason.

John

I totally agree, and your photo album of wartime 1911s and 1911A1s is beautifully done.

I have to ask...what lens are you using to get such closeup detail? Is it by any chance a 100mm or 85mm macro lens? Or even a screw-on filter type closeup lens? The reason I ask is I photograph a good many guns, but I haven't yet invested in a good macro.

Anyway, as I said, beautiful collection of photographs and pistols.

 

[vonn]

The battles of WW 2 were on a scale that may never be seen again, how any one could survive is indeed a miracle. Had a Sargent in VN who had jump wings with stars from WW 2 he never spoke of it , he stayed awake most of the night Tet started , and he drank a lot but never saw him drunk. The guys like him are the backbone of our military.

 

[ordnanceguy]

I mentioned above that the forthcoming motion picture entitled "FURY" is purely a work of fiction. It was written by writer/director David Ayer, perhaps best known for his cop thrillers like TRAINING DAY and END OF WATCH.

However, I have learned that there was indeed a 66th Armored Regiment M4 tank named FURY by its crew. The photo below, credited to Jim Baker, shows FURY with infantry aboard moving forward during Operation Cobra in the Normandy campaign.

 

[PALADIN85020]

I totally agree, and your photo album of wartime 1911s and 1911A1s is beautifully done.

I have to ask...what lens are you using to get such closeup detail? Is it by any chance a 100mm or 85mm macro lens? Or even a screw-on filter type closeup lens? The reason I ask is I photograph a good many guns, but I haven't yet invested in a good macro.

Anyway, as I said, beautiful collection of photographs and pistols.

The first two pictures, of the 1911 under a tree, and the 1911A1 on a camo background, were taken with a Pentax K-3 and a normal 50mm and 18-135mm variable lens. I don't use a macro. The K-3 takes HUGE 24 megapixel photos, so the detail is part and parcel of the original photo. It's just a case of getting the exposure and the focus right on, and cropping to show detail.

For really fine work, I use the Pentax 50mm 1.4 prime and get close. It's the sharpest lens in my bag. The first picture of the 1911 is an example of this.

The guns on the white background were actually taken years ago with a film camera, the Pentax K-1000, on slide film. I used a 50mm lens. I converted them to digital with a slide photograph copying attachment. Those shots were used in my article on issue .45s in the 2003 Gun Digest.

It's worth noting that my most modern camera, the K-3, has an APS-C sensor, so it has a crop factor of 1.5. For example, a 50mm lens has a coverage area identical to a 75mm lens. This makes it easy for me to take a picture where the subject is in the "sharpness sweet spot," which is the center of the lens, and then crop it to get the most detailed picture possible. I've often had to PhotoShop specks of dust and fingerprint remnants out of a picture because I couldn't see them on the gun with the naked eye. I've thought about getting a macro lens, but with this camera, it's just not necessary.

For example, the picture below, of a transitional kit gun, was taken with the K-3 and the 50mm 1.4 lens. It's reduced here to a width of 1024 pixels, but the detail in the original picture is phenomenal.

John