Bug out to where?

Really??

This is epic. I read the whole thing and want to thank most of you for the laughter...

Epic fail. Bad advise on top of fatalism.... all the way to fantasy. Great stuff!!!!

Giz

Glad you enjoyed it. Yessir, nothing but a cavalcade of boisterous buffoons running rampant with whimsical musings and blathering nonsensical ramblings, even delusional at times.

That's what we're here for, yep, no doubt about it.:rolleyes:

Stay tuned.....
 
EMTs, nuclear war, bands of thugs, zombies, etc don't worry me in the slightest however our multi-trillion dollar national debt that is sky- rocketing out of control scares the heck out of me! In all honesty I see absolutely no way our nation can recover from it and we will have an economic collapse with global effects that will make the "crash of 29" seem like a Sunday picnic. If someone can explain to me how our nation WILL avoid this, please enlighten me....I could use the cheering up.
Farmer17, I share this concern. Not overly worried here, but concerned enough to seek personal advice. And, that professional advice has been sound, calm, well reasoned, rational and (mostly) devoid of hysteria. It has forced me to honestly rethink my assumptions.

If we think about our nation's debt in the same way we do about our individual households; as a sovereign nation we owe others about 2% more than we we take in or are able to repay. Namely, our (GDP) gross domestic product cannot support our nation's spending habits. In my humble opinion "...WILL avoid..." seems to be an unrealistic expectation. Yet, there are certain things the individual can do.

As I mentioned in an earlier post(s); an EMP is a lesser risk. There are all kinds of risks such as physical, monetary, financial and others. There are only certain things one can do when risk(s) are identified; ignore it, accept it, transfer it or mitigate it. As a nation, we are walking into the moving triple propeller of irrational debt, worldwide devaluation of the US dollar and the specter of inflation.

A conclusion which is not mine alone, but that of others too. Bill Gross (who is NOT some anti-American crackpot). Quite the contrary. He manages the world's biggest bond fund. As the founder and chief investment officer of PIMCO, he's responsible for over $1.2 trillion in assets – mostly in bonds.

Back in 2011 he got out of all of his U.S. government (Treasury) bonds. "I am confident that this country will default on its debt," wrote Gross about PIMCO's business decision, "[I've] been selling Treasurys because they have little value within the context of a $17,580,398,253,343 (& rising) total debt burden," Bill said. "Unless government is substantially reformed, I am confident that this country will default on its debt." Our debt clock is ticking and we can watch it and compare our nation to other countries here - http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedstates

How would that happen? "Not in conventional ways," he explained, "but by picking the pockets of savers." He says the government will pick your pocket through "inflation, currency devaluation, and low to negative real interest rates." Our standard of living is in decline, while other countries is improving. Not always, but sometimes at the expense of the USA. These things are all happening right now.

The U.S. currency is already weak... The U.S. dollar index is right around the lowest levels it's ever been since we went off the gold standard in the early 1970s. We already have low to negative real interest rates. The Fed is artificially holding short-term rates at zero. But officially, inflation is 2%. So your "real" rate of interest at the bank is a negative (minus) 2%. You can hardly blame PIMCO for not wanting to own government bonds. Remember, Bill Gross isn't some wacko. He's the "Bond King" – and that nickname comes from decades of extraordinary performance. If not good enough for Bill, then they shouldn't be good enough for you or me either.



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Our own technology will be our downfall.
I am not sure what this means. Who yearns to be behind the mule pulling a 1838 John Deere plowshare?

A buddy traded in his old Deere for a brand new one when offered a sweetener from the manufacturer...financing @ 0% interest.

With his savings calculated on his interest free loan; he used the calculated savings to buy common stock in Deere (DE)

His entry price point is about $83.83. His near term intermediate upside target price per share is about $94 (that's about a 13% upside gain). DE pays a 2.6% dividend, which was about $.51 cents per share in Feb 2014. DE shares trade today at about $88+

All done from a smart phone...but, I am not that smart to not know if a Lamborghini tractor is better than a Deere, but the DE is made in the...oh yea, not-Italy.

None of my 40-45y/o S&W's have appreciated 5% since February 2014 nor do my guns pay a 2.6% quarterly dividend either.

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Near Miss: The Solar Superstorm of July 2012 - NASA Science

Just came across this. Read the whole story and realize that this isn't a conspiracy or wacko observation. We came closer than we were informed to a doomsday scenario that was REAL, not some whimsical musings of a person with a book/movie to sell.

I have truly enjoyed the insightful responses to my questions. We(my immediate family) don't have a BUG out plan. We will have to make do as best as we can. There is no "one size fits all" plan for everyone.

Let us all, in our own way, pray that we won't ever have to make the tough decisions that we would be faced with.

Many thanks to all of you who took the time to respond! :)

BTW, NBC nightly news just ran a piece on this event.

To you that said that we who posted are basically fools and idiots for even considering world changing events, natural or man-made, perhaps ought to take an another look around you. Or not.;)
 
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There is a good, if overwrought, film called Super Volcano, it posits an eruption of the caldera under Yellowstone.

Supervolcano. - YouTube

This is billed as a true story, one that just has not yet happened.

Worth watching, but your take away from it will be that in most cases we will be toast.
It's very difficult to survive under 20 feet of ash.
Super volcanos have come close to wiping out vertebrate life on Earth in the past.
 
Mainstream News Media Catches Up To OP
=== begin WSJ news clip ===
The Growing Threat From an EMP Attack
A nuclear device detonated above the U.S. could kill millions, and we've done almost nothing to prepare.
by R. JAMES WOOLSEY and PETER VINCENT PRY
Aug. 12, 2014 7:14 p.m. ET

In a recent letter to investors, billionaire hedge-fund manager Paul Singer warned that an electromagnetic pulse, or EMP, is "the most significant threat" to the U.S. and our allies in the world. He's right. Our food and water supplies, communications, banking, hospitals, law enforcement, etc., all depend on the electric grid. Yet until recently little attention has been paid to the ease of generating EMPs by detonating a nuclear weapon in orbit above the U.S., and thus bringing our civilization to a cold, dark halt.

Recent declassification of EMP studies by the U.S. government has begun to draw attention to this dire threat. Rogue nations such as North Korea (and possibly Iran) will soon match Russia and China and have the primary ingredients for an EMP attack: simple ballistic missiles such as Scuds that could be launched from a freighter near our shores; space-launch vehicles able to loft low-earth-orbit satellites; and simple low-yield nuclear weapons that can generate gamma rays and fireballs.

The much neglected 2004 and 2008 reports by the congressional EMP Commission—only now garnering increased public attention—warn that "terrorists or state actors that possess relatively unsophisticated missiles armed with nuclear weapons may well calculate that, instead of destroying a city or a military base, they may gain the greatest political-military utility from one or a few such weapons by using them—or threatening their use—in an EMP attack."

Enlarge Image

Bloomberg
The EMP Commission reports that: "China and Russia have considered limited nuclear-attack options that, unlike their Cold War plans, employ EMP as the primary or sole means of attack." The report further warns that: "designs for variants of such weapons may have been illicitly trafficked for a quarter-century."

During the Cold War, Russia designed an orbiting nuclear warhead resembling a satellite and peaceful space-launch vehicle called a Fractional Orbital Bombardment System. It would use a trajectory that does not approach the U.S. from the north, where our sensors and few modest ballistic-missile defenses are located, but rather from the south. The nuclear weapon would be detonated in orbit, perhaps during its first orbit, destroying much of the U.S. electric grid with a single explosion high above North America.

In 2004, the EMP Commission met with senior Russian military personnel who warned that Russian scientists had been recruited by North Korea to help develop its nuclear arsenal as well as EMP-attack capabilities. In December 2012, the North Koreans successfully orbited a satellite, the KSM-3, compatible with the size and weight of a small nuclear warhead. The trajectory of the KSM-3 had the characteristics for delivery of a surprise nuclear EMP attack against the U.S.

Opinion Video
Foundation for Defense of Democracies Chairman R. James Woolsey on the threat of an electromagnetic pulse that could bring American civilization to a halt. Photo credit: Getty Images.

What would a successful EMP attack look like? The EMP Commission, in 2008, estimated that within 12 months of a nationwide blackout, up to 90% of the U.S. population could possibly perish from starvation, disease and societal breakdown.

In 2009 the congressional Commission on the Strategic Posture of the United States, whose co-chairmen were former Secretaries of Defense William Perry and James Schlesinger, concurred with the findings of the EMP Commission and urged immediate action to protect the electric grid. Studies by the National Academy of Sciences, the Department of Energy, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission and the National Intelligence Council reached similar conclusions.

What to do?

Surge arrestors, faraday cages and other devices that prevent EMP from damaging electronics, as well micro-grids that are inherently less susceptible to EMP, have been used by the Defense Department for more than 50 years to protect crucial military installations and strategic forces. These can be adapted to protect civilian infrastructure as well. The cost of protecting the national electric grid, according to a 2008 EMP Commission estimate, would be about $2 billion—roughly what the U.S. gives each year in foreign aid to Pakistan.

Last year President Obama signed an executive order to guard critical infrastructure against cyberattacks. But so far this administration doesn't seem to grasp the urgency of the EMP threat. However, in a rare display of bipartisanship, Congress is addressing the threat. In June 2013, Rep. Trent Franks (R., Ariz.) and Rep. Yvette Clark (D., N.Y.) introduced the Secure High-voltage Infrastructure for Electricity from Lethal Damage, or Shield, Act. Unfortunately, the legislation is stalled in the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

In October 2013, Rep. Franks and Rep. Pete Sessions (R., Texas) introduced the Critical Infrastructure Protection Act. CIPA directs the Department of Homeland Security to adopt a new National Planning Scenario focused on federal, state and local emergency planning, training and resource allocation for survival and recovery from an EMP catastrophe. Yet this important legislation hasn't come to a vote either.

What is lacking in Washington is a sense of urgency. Lawmakers and the administration need to move rapidly to build resilience into our electric grid and defend against an EMP attack that could deliver a devastating blow to the U.S. economy and the American people. Congress should pass and the president should sign into law the Shield Act and CIPA as soon as possible. Literally millions of American lives could depend on it.

Mr. Woolsey is chairman of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and a former director of the CIA.Mr. Pry served on the EMP Commission, in the CIA, and is the author of "Electric Armageddon" (CreateSpace, 2013).

Source Attribution - http://online.wsj.com/articles/jame...-growing-threat-from-an-emp-attack-1407885281


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Many people have this fantasy about escaping to the wilderness like Grizzly Adams. Those people will die slowly. Another fantasy is that you will board yourself up in a house with an AR-15 and a years worth of MREs. Those people will die fast. Your only hope is to organize and re-establish some sort of civilization. We humans are social animals, we are safer in numbers. A strong moral compass (like the Bible) will serve you well and a well regulated militia.
 
What would/will happen when overnight people realize their money is totally worthless? Why go to work for pay that no one will accept? Nothing will be produced. Cops wont work, medical people wont go to the hospital for free, total breakdown when people believe the dollar is absolutely worthless. If you worked for the electric company would you go to work for a paycheck that now was monopoly money? Would soldiers stay in or be soldiers if the money was no good and they wouldn't be fed? Most officers have walked away etc? Isn't this all it would take?

Are you implying that people don't realize their money is already worthless? I thought everyone already knew that.
 
Thank goodness....

Near Miss: The Solar Superstorm of July 2012 - NASA Science

Just came across this. Read the whole story and realize that this isn't a conspiracy or wacko observation. We came closer than we were informed to a doomsday scenario that was REAL, not some whimsical musings of a person with a book/movie to sell.

Thank goodness the Earth is a small dot 93,000,000 miles away from the sun. This makes us a harder target as solar eruptions come out of the sphere of the Sun in every direction, not just in the planetary plane. The sun would have to have MOA accuracy to hit us, but over millions of years we may be due for a lucky shot.:eek:
 
We have minimized....

We have minimized the threat of famines by importing foods from around the world. But what happens if the food producing areas of the earth have crop failure for several years. Maybe seven years as recorded in the Bible. There have been regional famines in very modern times. With the way the weather is changing what if our 'bread baskets' turn into dust bowls, or flooded, or frozen or any number of things. We are already seeing shortages due to adverse conditions in our own country. If it isn't drought, it's flooded or frozen.
 
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Interesting reading. Source attribution - http://freemarketcafe.com/
=== begin clip ===
A multiyear drought chart gives some perspective.
3upe3a4u.jpg

From top to bottom, all of California is now in at least "severe drought" (shown in orange).
82% is rated "extreme drought" (in red).
The U.S. Drought Monitor's highest drought rating - "exceptional drought" (crimson) - now covers 58% of the state. That's up from 24.7% three months ago.
So what does "exceptional drought" mean? It means crop and pasture loss, and water shortages that fall within the top two percentiles of drought indicators. The water reserves in California's topsoil and subsoil are nearly depleted.

Reservoir levels are dropping. Groundwater is being drained from the state as farms and cities pull from difficult-to-replenish underground caches. The state's 154 reservoirs are at 60% of the historical average. That's 17.3 million acre-feet lower than they should be. That's more than a year's supply of water gone missing.

In all, 5.1 million acre-feet of water will be pulled from the state's underground reserves this year.

In specific locations, the drop in water levels is almost unbelievable. One state well near Sacramento registered a drop of 100 feet in three months.

The Land Sinks In on Itself
Across the state, some aquifers are emptying so quickly that there is "subsidence." That's when the land sinks in on itself because the water is no longer there to support it.

In press reports, county supervisor John Viegas asked, "How many straws can you stick in one glass?"

Mr. Viegas should know. He was forced to drill his own well 40 feet deeper.

The rising cost of water has forced farmers to idle about 500,000 acres of land. Will this impact food prices? Bank on it.

More bad news:
The Colorado River Basin feeds California and six other states. It is "the most over-allocated river system in the world," according to a study of satellite records that shocked scientists.

California's farmers are getting hurt the most. Farmers use about four-fifths of the water that isn't set aside for environmental preservation. Some farmers are paying 10 times more for water than before the drought.
The drought's biggest victim could be California's Central Valley, the source of fully half the nation's fruits and vegetables. In Kern County, one farmer recently drilled five new wells each 2,500 feet deep. That's twice the height of the Empire State Building!
Lost revenue from farming and related businesses could approach $5 billion this year in California alone.

Making the drought even worse is that California is having a record-busting heat wave.
zuvyqaqe.jpg

Across the state, temperatures are an average 1.4 degrees higher than the previous record.

Next year could be another dry year, according to a University of California study. And hot, too.

Drought Spans Many States
California is just the tip of this very dry iceberg. America's dust-dry drought zone spans a dozen states and nearly 600 counties. It stretches from southern Texas to the northern Rockies.

The parched land includes fields and grazing land that produce a third of the country's beef cattle and half of its fruit, vegetables and winter wheat.

So if you're wondering why your food prices are going up at the grocery store, that's why. The bad news is, if these trends continue, food prices are likely to go even higher.
=== end clip ===
NY Times interactive drought map - http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/14/upshot/100000003014362.mobile.html?abt=0002&abg=1

Water is diverted by illegal outdoor marijuana growers. Fact: A marijuana plant can consume 5 to 10 gallons of water, depending on it's point in the growth cycle. By comparison, a head of lettuce, another of California's major crops, needs about 3.5 gallons of water.
 
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Things are going bad on us in an increasingly rapid pace.

We're running out of potable water, honey bees are disappearing, food herds are succumbing to new diseases. Folks aren't getting their children vaccinated because of fear, the government is reading our mail, looking at our finances, profiling our behavior. Disease is coming to our country basically unchecked through our nonexistent borders, and we have the power people in D.C with their heads up......uh, I won't go there.:( Young un's have zero respect for anyone. Pain is fun especially if it's someone else's. Thank goodness for social media, youtoob, and all the instant gratification.

I hope I'm mistaken but the country is spiraling ever downward the way I perceive it. :(

Time to bug out to my Kevlar hut.
 

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Things are going bad on us in an increasingly rapid pace.

We're running out of potable water, honey bees are disappearing, food herds are succumbing to new diseases. Folks aren't getting their children vaccinated because of fear, the government is reading our mail, looking at our finances, profiling our behavior. Disease is coming to our country basically unchecked through our nonexistent borders, and we have the power people in D.C with their heads up......uh, I won't go there.:( Young un's have zero respect for anyone. Pain is fun especially if it's someone else's. Thank goodness for social media, youtoob, and all the instant gratification.

I hope I'm mistaken but the country is spiraling ever downward the way I perceive it. :(

Time to bug out to my Kevlar hut.
I think as a ecosystem. ..All of us, animals, plants. ..etc...etc...All reaching their limits. Imo there will be a big reset within the next 150 years. As a species the planet cannot sustain our way of life (Human).
 
I happen to believe there is a chance of chaos in our future. What might bring it on, who knows. When you think that flying a few airplanes into some buildings almost brought about a fiscal crisis and a full blown depression, then what do you think would happen if an entire city was taken out or we were attacked by cyber terrorists? There are many more triggers that could cause chaos.

During the last depression, humanity was different. People were not dependent on big government to solve each & every problem. Many people still lived on the farm or were related to someone who did. Many rural folks were not dependent on electricity or any technology. Almost 100% of the food was grown in the US, with most being grown locally. But look at now. A huge percent of our food is imported with very little grown locally, due to a great transportation and distribution system... along with huge food storage facilities. Most people now have given up the rural life and have no experience in growing their own food. Folks will blame the government if things go wrong, and when they do, they will not take it like generations before... they will riot.

To me, bugging out makes no sense & is the complete opposite of what I believe. To me there are 3 principles to surviving possible chaos.

1) PREPARATION: This includes arming yourself, training yourself & having plenty of ammo to last years & years. More important is being able to provide food & water... not for weeks or months but for years. Food preservation is a part of this but paramount is the ability to grow your own food and to have access to clean, safe water... with electricity or without. Right now I am not 100% self sufficient when it comes to growing all my own food however I have years of experience in growing my food and know which ones grow in my locale with the least effort. I could get to 100% very quickly.

2)COMMUNITY: We cannot survive alone, no matter how many guns we have or how many seeds you buy. We need each other. That is why bugging out makes no sense to me, at least in the long term. To me, it is critical you live in the area you want to survive in. Know the folks in your community. Shop with them & go to church with them. Then if something goes horribly wrong, you join together to find solutions. Then you prepare for the swarms of folks looking to survive. Most will not choose to steal, but will only do so as a last resort. You can't blame them. That means you have to prepare for this, as a community, and be prepared to integrate them into your community. Sure there will be the evil amongst them, thus the need for the guns & the ammo stash, but you can't shoot or run off everyone.

It should not be so hard to integrate these folks. For me to go from my situation to one where I produce lots of food would require extra people to do all the work & tend to the food plots. So even on my small 20 acre farmstead, I could easily take in say 20 folks and as a community we could grow our own food.

By living in a community you then don't have to provide 100% of your needs. You can specialize in certain areas & then trade & barter for what others provide... just as was done during the Great Depression. That is why I have a large apple orchard. I can use those apples to trade for beef from one neighbor or vegetables from another. With my cider press, I will easily be able to produce large volumes of apple cider vinegar which will store for long periods & is a great commodity for trade.

3) PROVIDE HOPE:
There is nothing more dangerous than someone without hope. With no hope to provide for one's family, people will do anything... chaos. That is why we must join together as a community to handle the problem & the influx of people just wanting to survive. I would rather have 20 folks living on my farm than having to fight them off. Sure, I could easily provide enough for myself on my farm, just by myself and close family and friends. But it would be real easily to ramp up in scale to provide food and work for all these others... to provide hope.
 
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