Was loading 223 rounds tonight. Using rcbs rock chucker with rcbs dies. Set seating die for 2.215 was using Lyman dial calipers. COAL was jumping any where from 2.214 to 2.218. Speer manual listed COAL at 2.215 is the variation normal, am I doing something wrong, do have crappy calipers. Loading 24gr h335 max is 26gr. Dont' think I'll have a pressure issue using the start load but pulled the one's out a little with the puller to correct COAL. Trying to learn, hoping you guys may be able to shed some light for me.
bullet seating variations
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Bruce51
Member
It actually sounds as if you are doing it very good.
Slight differences in OAL is normal due to the variations of the bullet ogive.
Don't sweat .004" differences and try not to reset the bullets or you might loose some case neck tension.
BLM
Slight differences in OAL is normal due to the variations of the bullet ogive.
Don't sweat .004" differences and try not to reset the bullets or you might loose some case neck tension.
BLM
If the bullet has a cannelure go by that or.............
you can use the bullet company OAL or..............
keep the bullet off of your barrels lands by .03" if........
the round fits in the magazine and is not way out of line with the standard
factory OAL, for the type/style of bullet.
For auto's, I use a shorter OAL so they will feed and not hang up.
Way back when I was learning, I had to eject a 308 for some reason.........
the case came out, along with the powder but not the bullet !
That was lesson #1, learned.
Have fun.
you can use the bullet company OAL or..............
keep the bullet off of your barrels lands by .03" if........
the round fits in the magazine and is not way out of line with the standard
factory OAL, for the type/style of bullet.
For auto's, I use a shorter OAL so they will feed and not hang up.
Way back when I was learning, I had to eject a 308 for some reason.........
the case came out, along with the powder but not the bullet !
That was lesson #1, learned.
Have fun.
New reloaders often get obsessed with COAL, but if you have set it as a service load with reasonable margin, a .01 variation is not an issue.
Most loaders have a cone type bullet seater, and they are seating off the ogive where they touch, not off the tip.
Most loaders have a cone type bullet seater, and they are seating off the ogive where they touch, not off the tip.
ageingstudent
Member
This^^^
.004 is not even splitting hairs it's almost splitting molecules. I load 22-250 and feel comfortable with .01 +/-. as long as the projectile is short of the lands by .015-.025 my cheapo savage shoots ridiculously good groups. I think h335 is a pretty forgiving powder too. As long as you don't go substantially lower than the recipe calls for you are safe. .004? You are doing great.
Measure some factory rounds sometime...
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Twoboxer
Member
To explain a bit further . . . bullets are not as consistent as you might have thought. They vary in weight and shape of ogive . . . even the length can vary a bit. Measure/weigh some just for fun . . . and the experience.
Your bullet seater cannot match the shape of all possible bullets. So as the shape of the bullet varies, the seating stem will contact the bullet at a different point. That can cause differences in OAL.
And that's why the folks have correctly told you not to sweat the small variations you are seeing.
Your bullet seater cannot match the shape of all possible bullets. So as the shape of the bullet varies, the seating stem will contact the bullet at a different point. That can cause differences in OAL.
And that's why the folks have correctly told you not to sweat the small variations you are seeing.
All good advice. I use 24 gn H-335 under a 55 gn bullet @ COAL 2.250. Nice plinking load. Your fine where you are at. What type of bullets are you utilizing? Some bullets like Montana Gold are very consistent in OAL, etc. while some like some cheaper "pull down" bullets can vary all over the place.
Hillbilly77
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I went through the same thing. I learned that a couple thousandths difference is no big deal. 
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reload...g-depth-col-giving-me-fits.html#post138392388
Following somebody's suggestion, I found that just a bit of case lube sprayed onto the bullets helps with seating depth consistency.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reload...g-depth-col-giving-me-fits.html#post138392388
Following somebody's suggestion, I found that just a bit of case lube sprayed onto the bullets helps with seating depth consistency.
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Vortec MAX
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The best you can do is try to get your AVERAGE OAL to be to spec. As mentioned above, differences in the bullet geometry will make the OAL vary since the seater will push on the ogive rather than right on the tip.
Mike
Mike
I went through the same thing. I learned that a couple thousandths difference is no big deal.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reload...g-depth-col-giving-me-fits.html#post138392388
Following somebody's suggestion, I found that just a bit of case lube sprayed onto the bullets helps with seating depth consistency.
No, No, No. You won't hold neck tension in rifle (or pistol) ammo without neck crimping. Neck crimping reloaded rifle ammo is not easy unless you do a ridiculous amount of case prep work. Case lube prevents cases from sticking inside sizing dies so it will defeat any case neck tension you are hoping for when you seat your bullets.
My worst reloading disaster was "lightly" lubing inside of case necks with spray sizing lube before resizing. 10% of the bullets went inside the case, another 5% fell out, and accuracy on the rest was awful --- definitely a case of don't expect much because you will be disappointed.
Your mileage may vary.
DWalt
Member
I use powdered graphite as an inside case mouth sizing lubricant lube, and it works fine. I have never used regular case lube inside the case mouth.
Different bullets of exactly the same weight and type come off different tooling sets during the manufacturing operation, so there will usually be slight differences in the ogives, and consequently slight differences in COAL. It may or may not make a difference in grouping. What you can do is to measure COAL of every loaded round with a dial or digital caliper and segregate them. For example, separate those rounds having a COAL =>2.155" from those with a COAL of <2.155" (assuming the average measured COAL is 2.155") and fire them separately. I do the essentially the same thing to segregate cases and bullets by weight (those below average weight from those above average weight). Trimming to a uniform case length and determining the proper bullet jump are probably more significant to good grouping than any other factors within your control.
Different bullets of exactly the same weight and type come off different tooling sets during the manufacturing operation, so there will usually be slight differences in the ogives, and consequently slight differences in COAL. It may or may not make a difference in grouping. What you can do is to measure COAL of every loaded round with a dial or digital caliper and segregate them. For example, separate those rounds having a COAL =>2.155" from those with a COAL of <2.155" (assuming the average measured COAL is 2.155") and fire them separately. I do the essentially the same thing to segregate cases and bullets by weight (those below average weight from those above average weight). Trimming to a uniform case length and determining the proper bullet jump are probably more significant to good grouping than any other factors within your control.
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Bruce51
Member
update
Just to clear all this posted advice up a bit here's an addendum.
To set the record straight about loading .223 I will share what has been learned.
It is best to trim all the cases to a uniform length.
This is very important if the bullet used has a cannelure and you intend to crimp.
However a crimp is unnecessary in a properly sized case as case neck tension alone can, does and will hold the bullet firmly.
Never put a wet lube inside a case neck. It can defeat the case neck tension.
It is Ok to brush inside the neck with motor mica. Do this before sizing and the neck expander ball will past smoothly through when it is withdrawn.
As far as seating depth and ogives are concerned there sometimes can be a problem.
If the ogive enters the case neck then you will loose case neck tension.
I have one particular bullet which needs seated longer and so note on the box.
If you try to crimp a non cannulure bullet you risk setting back the shoulder and loosing case neck tension. If you crimp a cannulured bullet too hard the same problem will occur.
The case neck and bullets in .223 are very small. It takes very little pressure to seat and or crimp a bullet.
If you do over crimp you will see the shoulder bulged out slightly and the round may not chamber without some force. If you try to reset the shoulder in your sizing die it may cause the loss of case neck tension.
Also never try to reset a seated bullet if it is too short.
It is best to remove the bullet, neck size and re-seat.
That's all I have. This knowledge comes from my own errors over time.
I hope this information helps the OP and others not only with the .223 but other calibers as well.
BLM
Just to clear all this posted advice up a bit here's an addendum.
To set the record straight about loading .223 I will share what has been learned.
It is best to trim all the cases to a uniform length.
This is very important if the bullet used has a cannelure and you intend to crimp.
However a crimp is unnecessary in a properly sized case as case neck tension alone can, does and will hold the bullet firmly.
Never put a wet lube inside a case neck. It can defeat the case neck tension.
It is Ok to brush inside the neck with motor mica. Do this before sizing and the neck expander ball will past smoothly through when it is withdrawn.
As far as seating depth and ogives are concerned there sometimes can be a problem.
If the ogive enters the case neck then you will loose case neck tension.
I have one particular bullet which needs seated longer and so note on the box.
If you try to crimp a non cannulure bullet you risk setting back the shoulder and loosing case neck tension. If you crimp a cannulured bullet too hard the same problem will occur.
The case neck and bullets in .223 are very small. It takes very little pressure to seat and or crimp a bullet.
If you do over crimp you will see the shoulder bulged out slightly and the round may not chamber without some force. If you try to reset the shoulder in your sizing die it may cause the loss of case neck tension.
Also never try to reset a seated bullet if it is too short.
It is best to remove the bullet, neck size and re-seat.
That's all I have. This knowledge comes from my own errors over time.
I hope this information helps the OP and others not only with the .223 but other calibers as well.
BLM
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chamfer the case mouth...
Rather than any kind of 'belling', chamfer the inside of the case mouth with a tool. I also learned to use no crimp on rifle bullets. I had a long lay off from reloading and when I came back things had changed in several areas.
Rather than any kind of 'belling', chamfer the inside of the case mouth with a tool. I also learned to use no crimp on rifle bullets. I had a long lay off from reloading and when I came back things had changed in several areas.
fredj338
Member
Put 0.004" on your calipers, it's not even a sheet of paper. The bullets nose shape or ogive can easily vary that much. It means nothing to you accuracy or pressures. Fwiw, there should be no case lube inside the neck prior to seating bullets. It affects no tension, which will affect accuracy. If you lube the case necks, as I do, then I brush them out. A better bet is a carbide exp button, but not available on all dies.
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