Bump Stock etc... "Banned"!

[handejector]

I have an FFL, so I subscribe to ATF email notifications.
I received the below email that you can View it as a Web page


NOTE the link they provide to the actual ruling- Bump Stock Ruling








This is what the email says:




Bump Stock Ruling

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives sent this bulletin at 12/19/2018 10:37 AM EST

Having trouble viewing this email? View it as a Web page.​

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e-ATF Web Updates​

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Bump Stock Ruling

Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker announces that the Department of Justice has amended the regulations of ATF, clarifying that bump stocks fall within the definition of "machine gun" under federal law.
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What You Should Know?

• Bump-stock-devices allow a semiautomatic firearm to shoot more than one shot with a single trigger pull.
• The new rule goes into effect 90 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register.

What's Next?

ATF has created a new page to discuss options available for current owners of bump-stock-type firearms to allow them time to get rid of them by the effective date of the final rule. Owners can destroy the device by either melting, shredding, or crushing it. To learn more about destroying the devices, visit www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/bump-stocks/how-to-destroy

The second option for owners is to turn them in. It is preferred that owners contact their nearest ATF office to make an appointment. To find the location of your nearest ATF office visit: www.atf.gov/contact/local-atf-offices.

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[CalmerThanYou]

Make an appointment with the ATF?????. Sounds like a great idea.

 

[WCCPHD]

It would be very interesting to see legal action addressing the issue of just compensation. First an injunction halting enforcement until final court rulings, which could tie things up for a year or two, then proceedings to establish "fair market value" to be paid for the banned items.

I remember when the Assault Weapons Ban took effect during the early 1990's. Prior to the AWB a trip to WalMart with $200 would bring home a Ruger Mini-14; then after AWB the same Mini-14 jumped to over $600 almost overnight. Pre-ban 30-round GI surplus AR magazines went from =/< $20 to over $60. Standard capacity Glock pistol mags jumped from $30 to $100-plus.

Short version: It should not be terribly difficult to enforce the just compensation clause for property taken for the public good, and the fair market value can be expected to triple or more within a short period of time. Hence, just the sort of action any number of law firms would drool over for 40% contingency fees, and just the sort of action that would allow NRA, GOA, and other advocacy groups to tabulate and report the true costs of knee-jerk reactions to isolated incidents.

CAVEAT: First, I'm only attempting to answer your first question about compensation. I want everyone to know that I do not support this obvious infringement, I am only posting to attempt to explain the rationale that the government will use to justify what they are doing.

By making this rule the US DOJ is declaring bump stocks (or whatever they call them) to be contraband. Contraband is defined as something that is illegal to possess. If its illegal to possess then, by definition, it has no monetary value. Its the same justification the government uses to confiscate and destroy illegal drugs. They don't compensate the person from whom they seize them from. Or like a non-registered machine gun. When the court case is over the gun is destroyed and the former possessor is not compensated for it.

Again, I don't condone this or agree with it, but this is the logic they will use to ban the items and NOT pay just compensation.

 

[double-dipper]

I'm no fan of bump stocks nor do I own one, but if this executive order goes through what's next high capacity magazines? Then they move on to an all out ban on semi-auto handguns, rifles and shotguns. This will and needs to be challenged in court.

 

[TTSH]

Again, I don't condone this or agree with it, but this is the logic they will use to ban the items and NOT pay just compensation.

And the same logic is already being applied to magazines over 10 rounds in some places and will soon be applied to all semi-auto firearms if this "ban" is allowed to stand.

 

[ladder13]

As Andrew Cuomo notoriously stated in 2013 " no one needs 10 bullets to kill a deah".


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvKXJ6VTlAM[/ame]

 

[johngalt]

CAVEAT: First, I'm only attempting to answer your first question about compensation. I want everyone to know that I do not support this obvious infringement, I am only posting to attempt to explain the rationale that the government will use to justify what they are doing.

By making this rule the US DOJ is declaring bump stocks (or whatever they call them) to be contraband. Contraband is defined as something that is illegal to possess. If its illegal to possess then, by definition, it has no monetary value. Its the same justification the government uses to confiscate and destroy illegal drugs. They don't compensate the person from whom they seize them from. Or like a non-registered machine gun. When the court case is over the gun is destroyed and the former possessor is not compensated for it.

Again, I don't condone this or agree with it, but this is the logic they will use to ban the items and NOT pay just compensation.

One difference: illegal drug buyers know that their drugs are contraband. Bump stocks were not illegal when bought, so therefor NOT contraband.

Can government effectively declare someone's property as valueless and then seize it without paying compensation? It appears this is what they are working toward.

 

[jag312]

Well I for one sure feel safer....(insert disgusted smirk here).
Next on the agenda, semi-auto, cause, you know it's literally a machine gun.

We've got to ban these lever action assault weapons. Just look at The Rifleman; he fires that lever action rifle like a machinegun.


I am surprised that BATF doesn't have an amnesty period to allow the bump stocks be registered as NFA weapons.

 

[ben_g1]

Your view of usefulness shouldn't infringe on my right to own something. I too think they are stupid, but I don't have the right to tell you what to own.

I never said you can't have one if you wanted one. I said "I" don't see a use for them. I do agree with you about they are just a stupid gimmick, and they make the pro-gun people look bad.

Its just the same as open carry, I never would but if someone wants too strap a AR to their back and walk around looking stupid be my guess, its your right. But again it doesn't do anything but intimidate and turn the anti-gun crowd even more so.
We need to pick our battles and I for one don't think bump stops are one worth fighting for. I know some will say, let them get their foot in the door and it never stops. Well news flash, its never going to stop.
There's extremist on both sides, pro-gun and anti-gun. Pick your fights, may loose a battle but fight to win the war.

This picture does not help our cause.

 

[Sistema1927]

I am guessing that I am going to have to destroy my Winchester Model '06. You can hold down the trigger and keep pumping rounds out if it.

Note that this is almost the same logic being applied to re-classify bump stocks as machine guns.

 

[Ματθιας]

I never said you can't have one if you wanted one. I said "I" don't see a use for them.

You also said the people who own them are "up to no good".

I do agree with you about they are just a stupid gimmick, and they make the pro-gun people look bad.

To you.

Its just the same as open carry,

No it is not. Not even close.

I never would but if someone wants too strap a AR to their back and walk around looking stupid be my guess, its your right. But again it doesn't do anything but intimidate and turn the anti-gun crowd even more so.

Your opinion. At this point who cares what the anti-gun people think. They're going to hate us no matter what we do and what legislation they pass.

We need to pick our battles and I for one don't think bump stops are one worth fighting for.

It's not just about bump stocks. It's the implication that bump stocks turn semi-autos into machine guns? What's next, parts like fire control groups? How about springs? One day something is legal, then in three months it's a federal crime?

They've already declared a 14" shoestring to be machine-guns in 2004, but had to walk it back because we put up a fight.

Can't you see where this can and in some form likely to go? It appears, your personal bias is blinding you.

Again, this is not just about bump stocks.

I know some will say, let them get their foot in the door and it never stops. Well news flash, its never going to stop.

That's why we can't give an inch.

There's extremist on both sides, pro-gun and anti-gun. Pick your fights, may loose a battle but fight to win the war.

EVERY battle counts. EVERY single one. We've given up and compromised for decades and what has that got us? More legislative fights at all levels of government. More legislation. Less freedom. If that's what you wan't, well, I don't know what to say.

This picture does not help our cause.

The picture has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

 

[brjr51]

Still trying to figure what "they" hope to gain by this. Does nothing to placate your opposition, does everything to disenfranchise your supporters.

 

[Robspeire]

Gotta admit I was ok with the Ban until I read this post from beginning till now. NOW I am against it. Give & inch and they will take a yard.
What next will I have to destroy or turn in my 20-30 round magazines.
I guess it's divide & conquer.
Question will the rubber band mod work on my 11-87 ?
15 00 buck shot pellets X 8 = 120. Beats my AR 30 rd. Will semi auto shotguns be next

 

[ladder13]

AR's " are weapons of war", are you awake yet?

 

[WCCPHD]

Always remember:

Gun control is not about guns, its about CONTROL.

 

[ladder13]

OC, zero comparison, zero. The old lame OC nonsense rears it's head.

 

[GaryS]

There is a good chance that this will be overturned in court. Since the bumpstock is not a machine gun, nor does it allow one to convert a semi automatic to a fully automatic weapon, it would not seem to seem to come under the NFA.

Not that I have any intention of buying one, but letting the camel gets its nose under the tent flap is a bad thing.

 

[GaryS]

And yet, in a couple of years Texas got open carry. I don't know if these chaps helped, but it appears that they didn't hurt the effort either.

Got that right. I remember those clowns.

From somewhere down in Texas back in '15 when they were trying to pass open carry. The guy on the left is so fat, he'd be doing good to get that AR into firing position. The little guy is obviously overcompensating for some sort of deficiency. Undoubtedly one of the most ridiculous photos ever to be associated with any kind of gun rights. Anti-gun people eat this stuff up with a spoon.

 

[ben_g1]

Ya, the big guy better watch it or he may end up like this. Notice the little want-a-be has his finger on the trigger.

When the other poster said this picture has nothing to do with this thread, people that are on the fence or just don't care one way or the other see this (long guns on peoples back while at a donut shop) and the hear talk of bump stops and what they do, just may fall off that fence on the wrong side.

Anti-gun people likely will always be anti-gun people, but there's a large majority in the middle, why alienate them.

 

[ladder13]

People on the fence don't want you to have 30 rd "banana clips" either. Seriously, you think the anti's can be placated? How much will you give up to find out?